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Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Old Jun 13th 2019, 11:40 am
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Post Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

I'm a 25 y/o British citizen living and working in London in a NOC 2171 code occupation (IT consultant). I entered the EE pool on the 3rd of May with 438 CRS points. Single applicant.

IELTS scores:

- Reading: 9
- Listening: 9
- Speaking: 9
- Writing: 7

It is possible to bring my CRS score up from 438 to 441 by retaking all the IELTS tests and getting my writing score up from 7 to 7.5... however I would really like to avoid this because I already took the tests twice and they were a pain in the behind.

Based on all of the draws so far this year, there was one draw for 438 points back in Jan, but that was because the pool had few people in it with that many points. Now it's a different story.

I selected ON as my preferred province, and it seems I am eligible for OINP, but they send out EoIs every few months and so far haven't targeted people with my NOC code. I heard there is a new incoming tech stream though which will probably help, but I don't know when that's going to be introduced?

I speak a bit of French, but not enough to take a test and get a decent score (5.5/6 minimum I think). I don't have or plan to get a Master's. I can't get a job offer in Canada because an LMIA backed offer will cost upwards of $1k CAD and I don't see employers who haven't met me be willing to fork out cash to send me a job offer.

Looking at all of the recent draws, the points limit has been so high (450-470) that I just don't see me getting a standard ItA at all this year. I think my only hope is OINP, maybe even only through their incoming tech scream....

Is there anything I can do about this, other than retaking IELTS and going up to 441 CRS which is probably not going to make a difference anyway?
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 12:29 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

I can't see any way for you to get your points up other than retaking IELTS from what you've said or possibly TEF if your French is good enough (A level or above). If you're 25, then the obvious answer to me would be an IEC visa.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 12:50 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

I received an IEC invite last summer but turned it down as I had just started a new job. I joined back the IEC pool a few weeks ago but the season has ended.. starts again in December. It would take at least 3 months of grinding Duolingo to get my French up to A-Level standards and even then it'll be a struggle...

The only way as you said would be to retake IELTS and go from 438 to 441 points, but 441 may not even be enough, and the 3-point difference isn't worth the cost and the hassle to me, especially because it's likely I won't get 7.5 in my first shot. First time I took IELTS in March I got 6.5 in writing. Second time I took IELTS at the end of March I got 6.5 again. I then applied for a remark and it was bumped up to 7.

I think 438 points might be enough next January when the season reopens.. but until then I have to hope for an OINP Notification of Interest. Not my preferred way of moving due to the cost of OINP, but hey if I have no other choice then so be it.

Last edited by ph2020; Jun 13th 2019 at 12:53 pm.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
I received an IEC invite last summer but turned it down as I had just started a new job.
Oh bum. For future ref, once you get an IEC you have a year to activate it, so could have used it this year.

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
I think 438 points might be enough next January when the season reopens..
Not sure what you mean by this? There's no 'season' for EE apps. At the moment there are about 22,000 people with higher scores than you in the pool, so you're not likely to get an ITA anytime soon unless it's through OINP. But do keep an eye on it, you never know when they might drop.

Best of luck.


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Old Jun 13th 2019, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
Oh bum. For future ref, once you get an IEC you have a year to activate it, so could have used it this year.



Not sure what you mean by this? There's no 'season' for EE apps. At the moment there are about 22,000 people with higher scores than you in the pool, so you're not likely to get an ITA anytime soon unless it's through OINP. But do keep an eye on it, you never know when they might drop.

Best of luck.
I could swear I had 60 days to accept the invite? Definitely wasn't a year, unless it's a recent change?

Ah so the pool isn't emptied and every profile doesn't expire every year?

I'm hoping less and less people join the pool as the year goes on to give me a bit more of a chance. Overall I'm pretty optimistic I'll get an invite in the year, but I really don't want to wait that long.. I would love to move at the end of this year.

Edit: it appears I only actually had 10 days to accept it.. but I think you meant I had 1 year to use the IEC (i.e. enter Canada). But that would have involved paying for it and potentially not using it. I think that's why I didn't go through with it.

Last edited by ph2020; Jun 13th 2019 at 4:23 pm.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 5:04 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
I could swear I had 60 days to accept the invite? Definitely wasn't a year, unless it's a recent change?
You do have 60 days to submit a full application, but then once the LOI is issued you have a year from the date of that to actually enter Canada and activate it. So if you had an ITA last summer you'd have got your IEC about autumn, and had until autumn this year before having to move.

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
Ah so the pool isn't emptied and every profile doesn't expire every year?
The pool isn't emptied, no. Your profile does expire after a year, but that's a year from the date you first entered it, it's not per calendar year.

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
I'm hoping less and less people join the pool as the year goes on to give me a bit more of a chance.
The visas don't run out or have a quota like with IEC's. People enter all year round.

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
Overall I'm pretty optimistic I'll get an invite in the year
I'm sorry to burst that optimism, but I would disagree. The OINP has not gone as low as 438 at all this year or in 2018 (other than targeted draws i.e. those who spoke fluent French or who were in specific occupations), and the federal EE has only gone that low once in that time. Given the number of people in the pool currently scoring higher than 440, I can't see it dipping that low again for a while. Sorry.

There have been a few draws at 440/441 though, so it may be worth trying to get those extra few points even if you're not keen on the idea. Or just keep an eye out for the OINP tech pilot when full details of that are announced, it may not be implemented until 2020 but could be a good option for you.

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
I would love to move at the end of this year.
Even if you got an ITA in the next month or so, it would probably be early 2020 before you got PR.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Jun 13th 2019 at 5:19 pm.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

BC and the Atlantic Provinces already have pilots in place..

https://www.welcomebc.ca/Immigrate-t...PNP-Tech-Pilot
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...immigrate.html

You can check for Ontario updates here: https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-ont...rogram-updates
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 10:08 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
You do have 60 days to submit a full application, but then once the LOI is issued you have a year from the date of that to actually enter Canada and activate it. So if you had an ITA last summer you'd have got your IEC about autumn, and had until autumn this year before having to move.



The pool isn't emptied, no. Your profile does expire after a year, but that's a year from the date you first entered it, it's not per calendar year.



The visas don't run out or have a quota like with IEC's. People enter all year round.



I'm sorry to burst that optimism, but I would disagree. The OINP has not gone as low as 438 at all this year or in 2018 (other than targeted draws i.e. those who spoke fluent French or who were in specific occupations), and the federal EE has only gone that low once in that time. Given the number of people in the pool currently scoring higher than 440, I can't see it dipping that low again for a while. Sorry.

There have been a few draws at 440/441 though, so it may be worth trying to get those extra few points even if you're not keen on the idea. Or just keep an eye out for the OINP tech pilot when full details of that are announced, it may not be implemented until 2020 but could be a good option for you.



Even if you got an ITA in the next month or so, it would probably be early 2020 before you got PR.
OINP no longer has a minimum CRS requirement.. it's now at the discretion of the director of the program. They're not targeting people based on their CRS points anymore, but by their occupation's NOC code.

Going up to 441 points isn't going to help me based on the last 6 months of draws.. other than that 438-point Jan 30th draw, none were at 441 points. I think my best bet is getting an OINP NoI for my NOC code, either through the existing HC stream, or the upcoming tech stream. I think my second best bet is the generic EE ItA at 438 points. If it dipped that low in Jan, why wouldn't it again?

I still think I have a pretty good shot at getting an ItA in the next year, i.e. by Spring 2020, without increasing my CRS points. I'll update this thread when I get that invite, or OINP NoI.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
BC require a job offer, and I've just looked into the AIP and that too requires a job offer, so it looks like neither of those are options for me. Besides, it would be nice to make it on my own, i.e. without needing a job offer/company sponsorship, spousal dependency, etc. It's nice to think that I've earned 438 points just based on my age, education, languages and work experience, and that I'll probably make it there on my own. :-)
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 10:42 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
OINP no longer has a minimum CRS requirement.. it's now at the discretion of the director of the program. They're not targeting people based on their CRS points anymore, but by their occupation's NOC code.
Yes, I’m aware there is no minimum. But I disagree that ‘they’re not targeting people based on their CRS points anymore’, as most draws are still based on exactly that. Targeted draws are rare and only one draw since the beginning of 2018 has been for specific NOC codes. The other targeted draws have been for those with a job offer in Ontario, or fluent French speakers.

But let’s hope the tech pilot comes to fruition, essentially a reintroduction of the one they had in 2017 it seems, or that they do issue some targeted occupation NOI’s, with your NOC code among them.

Good luck.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 8:55 am
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post


Yes, I’m aware there is no minimum. But I disagree that ‘they’re not targeting people based on their CRS points anymore’, as most draws are still based on exactly that. Targeted draws are rare and only one draw since the beginning of 2018 has been for specific NOC codes. The other targeted draws have been for those with a job offer in Ontario, or fluent French speakers.

But let’s hope the tech pilot comes to fruition, essentially a reintroduction of the one they had in 2017 it seems, or that they do issue some targeted occupation NOI’s, with your NOC code among them.

Good luck.

Time will tell.. hopefully not too much time. I guess in the meantime I'll put some time into brushing up my French... even if it gives me 20 more CRS points, that'll probably guarantee me an invite. Not going to be easy but nothing involving immigration is ever easy... moving to the UK as a child wasn't exactly a walk in the park.

Thank you :-)

Edit: whoops, didn't realise how many times I used 'time'.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
BC require a job offer, and I've just looked into the AIP and that too requires a job offer, so it looks like neither of those are options for me. Besides, it would be nice to make it on my own, i.e. without needing a job offer/company sponsorship, spousal dependency, etc. It's nice to think that I've earned 438 points just based on my age, education, languages and work experience, and that I'll probably make it there on my own. :-)
Atlantic Provinces Pilot Project (Not AIP which is Alberta) - each Province has a list of approved companies that are actively looking for people.. you would get a TWP while the application was being processed and could be possibly be here within a few months.. why not take advantage of that..
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...d-program.html
Christmasoompa knows about Immigration matters in depth, I would suggest taking heed

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

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Old Jun 14th 2019, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post


Yes, I’m aware there is no minimum. But I disagree that ‘they’re not targeting people based on their CRS points anymore’, as most draws are still based on exactly that. Targeted draws are rare and only one draw since the beginning of 2018 has been for specific NOC codes. The other targeted draws have been for those with a job offer in Ontario, or fluent French speakers.

But let’s hope the tech pilot comes to fruition, essentially a reintroduction of the one they had in 2017 it seems, or that they do issue some targeted occupation NOI’s, with your NOC code among them.

Good luck.
Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Atlantic Provinces Pilot Project (Not AIP which is Alberta) - each Province has a list of approved companies that are actively looking for people.. you would get a TWP while the application was being processed and could be possibly be here within a few months.. why not take advantage of that..

Christmasoompa knows about Immigration matters in depth, I would suggest taking heed

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
By AIP I meant the Atlantic Immigration Pilot in general (second URL you posted). Looking at Newfoundland for example I can see only 1 designated employer with a NOC 2171/74 post, so options are super limited. Saying that though I really want to live in Toronto. I'm not really interested in the Atlantic provinces. I have a friend who lives near St John's, and while it sounds like a great place to retire, I'm a big city boy.

Oh I'm aware of and grateful for oompa's broad immigration knowledge. :-) I'm no chopped liver either though, having spent my whole life moving around. Spent 1 year trying to move to the US, almost succeeded. Worked directly with a US immigration attorney for many months, helping them with paperwork. Subscribed to many popular immigration sites and blogs started and updated by attorneys in the field. Spent the last year and a half researching into moving to Canada, learned a heck of a lot. Helped many people move. If I had more time I would contribute a lot more to this forum. Maybe someday soon. :-)
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 5:26 pm
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

Originally Posted by ph2020 View Post
By AIP I meant the Atlantic Immigration Pilot in general (second URL you posted). Looking at Newfoundland for example I can see only 1 designated employer with a NOC 2171/74 post, so options are super limited. Saying that though I really want to live in Toronto. I'm not really interested in the Atlantic provinces. I have a friend who lives near St John's, and while it sounds like a great place to retire, I'm a big city boy.

Oh I'm aware of and grateful for oompa's broad immigration knowledge. :-) I'm no chopped liver either though, having spent my whole life moving around. Spent 1 year trying to move to the US, almost succeeded. Worked directly with a US immigration attorney for many months, helping them with paperwork. Subscribed to many popular immigration sites and blogs started and updated by attorneys in the field. Spent the last year and a half researching into moving to Canada, learned a heck of a lot. Helped many people move. If I had more time I would contribute a lot more to this forum. Maybe someday soon. :-)
Perhaps look at one of the Provincial Pilot Projects as a means to an end. Apply through one, and stay there a year or two. Only you can decide if you are prepared to risk not getting an invite to Ontario.. or any invite at all.. there's no guarantee any of the immigration routes will remain the same or even still be available. Getting an invite under express entry is dependent on CRS points - as Canada is popular and thousands apply they can pick and choose from the best - and they determine the best by the number of points they have. Every year you will lose points due to age.. something to bear in mind.

On the subject of employment in the atlantic provinces,
Newfoundland has 7 positions in NOC 2174
New Brunswick has 21 pages of approved employers - I'm sure some of them may seek an IT specialist.

CGI, for instance, are one of the larger employers in the IT field and are an approved employer for the Global Talent Stream . https://www.cgi.com/en/careers

Good luck with your research.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 10:01 am
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Default Re: Is it realistic to expect an ItA with 438 CRS points?

So last night I received a notification saying my CIC account was updated. I saw it this morning, noticed the application number and realised it's for my IEC application which I submitted a month ago as a backup, but didn't think much of it since there was only a few spots left vs the thousands of people in the pool. I presumed the message was to tell me that the season is over and all invites have been sent out.. but to my shock I actually received an ItA! I checked their quota page and they doubled the quota for the UK from 5,000 to 10,000, and everyone in the pool gets an invite! In fact there are far less people in the pool than available spaces now. Tell all your friends! The funny thing is I was going to withdraw my IEC application from my CIC profile the other day because it was useless.. thank god I didn't!

I received an IEC ItA this time last year but I rejected it because I was about to start a new job. Now I have a nice backup in case PR doesn't work out for some reason.. in fact getting a year of Canadian experience will get me a nice chunk of PR points.

I will probably go through with it since I have a year to enter Canada, so it's a great backup :-)
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