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RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Old Aug 4th 2017, 6:36 am
  #31  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by gaz_c2c View Post
Although I understand the OP's frustration, at the end of the day the government of Canada has an obligation to do its due diligence on newcomers
Again, if they really want to do that then they should start with the situation at the land border which, by many accounts, has become as bad as some parts of Southern Europe these days. My personal experiences with Canadian officials suggest they will always take the easiest and laziest route possible to everything though.

Best of luck with your application. I hope it all works out for you. I'm just done with diving through hoops at this point.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 6:55 am
  #32  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post

I should also mention that in 6 years doing the job the only person who refused prints had identical details to a person with a long record, it was a nasty record that would have prevented him working with kids,and at the first whisper of needing prints he withdrew his application and moved house.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting anything. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions but let's just get this out of the way now. I have done nothing wrong. During my time in Canada I never so much as exchanged glances with a police officer and in other countries I've only ever dealt with the police as a victim or witness.

If I had a criminal record then I wouldn't have even considered starting this process, especially if that record was in Canada as one would assume checking their own systems would be a somewhat trivial matter. Chances are they're more inept than I originally thought but in any case, I honestly wouldn't take that risk or waste my own money, work and time.

What I object to is being singled out, made to feel like a criminal, and forced to endure additional inconvenience and expense. If it helps to illustrate my point, I have refused to visit the United States on principle ever since the introduction of ESTA. On the one occasion that I did, it was because I needed to flagpole and there was pretty much no other feasible alternative with the time available.

This common assumption in the post-2001 world that if you're unwilling to surrender everything and sit up and bark in response to every bureaucratic command then you automatically must have something to hide is quite frankly concerning.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Aug 4th 2017 at 6:58 am.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 7:03 am
  #33  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi



1. The OP should be thankful that s/he wasn't asked for an FBI criminal records check as well, the reaction would be interesting to watch.
If I'd spent more than 180 days in America then at least that request would be justified. What they're demanding from me now isn't justifiable.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 9:42 am
  #34  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I'm not sure if you're suggesting anything. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions but let's just get this out of the way now. I have done nothing wrong. During my time in Canada I never so much as exchanged glances with a police officer and in other countries I've only ever dealt with the police as a victim or witness.

If I had a criminal record then I wouldn't have even considered starting this process, especially if that record was in Canada as one would assume checking their own systems would be a somewhat trivial matter. Chances are they're more inept than I originally thought but in any case, I honestly wouldn't take that risk or waste my own money, work and time.

What I object to is being singled out, made to feel like a criminal, and forced to endure additional inconvenience and expense. If it helps to illustrate my point, I have refused to visit the United States on principle ever since the introduction of ESTA. On the one occasion that I did, it was because I needed to flagpole and there was pretty much no other feasible alternative with the time available.

This common assumption in the post-2001 world that if you're unwilling to surrender everything and sit up and bark in response to every bureaucratic command then you automatically must have something to hide is quite frankly concerning.
No, I wasn't suggesting anything, of course not. Just trying to fill in a few details on why fingerprints are often asked for when eliminations are needed. Taking prints is also far less personally intrusive than DNA.
The piece you quoted from my post, was just an anecdote If anything it was intended to reassure you that many people have been asked for prints in the past in various situations and there is no sinister intent in the requests!
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 11:15 am
  #35  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
No, I wasn't suggesting anything, of course not. Just trying to fill in a few details on why fingerprints are often asked for when eliminations are needed. Taking prints is also far less personally intrusive than DNA.
The piece you quoted from my post, was just an anecdote If anything it was intended to reassure you that many people have been asked for prints in the past in various situations and there is no sinister intent in the requests!
No I'm sure you weren't but an earlier poster did so I just wanted to nip that one in the bud. There's nothing funny going on here and I see no reason why I wouldn't be cleared through this process if I followed it.

This seems like a total minefield if you're outside Canada though. There are a great number of companies who provide the interim digitization service and a lot of them seem to be small one-man band outfits with amateur looking websites and some really questionable English in a few cases.

The police over here seem to know what they're doing (if you can actually get hold of someone) however once you submit your paperwork to the Canadians it could be anybody's guess. It doesn't help that they want 2 forms of government photo ID as well which isn't easy if you live in the UK and don't have a drivers license. Government photo ID isn't really a thing here which is why most people just use their passport to verify everything these days.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 12:46 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
No I'm sure you weren't but an earlier poster did so I just wanted to nip that one in the bud. There's nothing funny going on here and I see no reason why I wouldn't be cleared through this process if I followed it.

This seems like a total minefield if you're outside Canada though. There are a great number of companies who provide the interim digitization service and a lot of them seem to be small one-man band outfits with amateur looking websites and some really questionable English in a few cases.

The police over here seem to know what they're doing (if you can actually get hold of someone) however once you submit your paperwork to the Canadians it could be anybody's guess. It doesn't help that they want 2 forms of government photo ID as well which isn't easy if you live in the UK and don't have a drivers license. Government photo ID isn't really a thing here which is why most people just use their passport to verify everything these days.
A lot of former police fingerprint operators are now in business independently, and are probably some of the one-man-band companies.
Personally I would swallow the cost and get my prints done by the police themselves, unless I was certain of the reputation of an independent. Not because I doubt their integrity, but because I would want to be sure that the prins were being taken properly, by an expert, as there can be a real knack to getting good prints, especially if you are not a good donor (there are many reasons why some people give better prints than others).

(After the CRB took over the criminal record checking, I moved to the Fingerprint Bureau. Fascinating trade. )
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 1:09 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
A lot of former police fingerprint operators are now in business independently, and are probably some of the one-man-band companies.
Personally I would swallow the cost and get my prints done by the police themselves, unless I was certain of the reputation of an independent. Not because I doubt their integrity, but because I would want to be sure that the prins were being taken properly, by an expert, as there can be a real knack to getting good prints, especially if you are not a good donor (there are many reasons why some people give better prints than others).

(After the CRB took over the criminal record checking, I moved to the Fingerprint Bureau. Fascinating trade. )
Sorry, I think there's a slight misunderstanding here and it's probably my fault. In the UK the prints need to be taken by the police, there's no issue there.

The problem is that the RCMP won't accept the prints directly from the British police despite both of them being five eyes members and sharing a police certificate system. In typical Canadian style, the prints need to go through a whitelisted private sector business who will make certified digital copies and then submit them to the RCMP on an individual's behalf.

The RCMP waive fees to prospective immigrants for the verification but you need to pay the intermediary company and the fees aren't fixed so you can wind up paying anywhere from around $80 to $400.

I swear, every service in Canada seems to work this way. It's almost identical to their Education Assessment system and the cynic in me thinks it's just a way to pump additional easy foreign revenue into the Canadian private sector.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 1:18 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Sorry, I think there's a slight misunderstanding here and it's probably my fault. In the UK the prints need to be taken by the police, there's no issue there.

The problem is that the RCMP won't accept the prints directly from the British police despite both of them being five eyes members and sharing a police certificate system. In typical Canadian style, the prints need to go through a whitelisted private sector business who will make certified digital copies and then submit them to the RCMP on an individual's behalf.

The RCMP waive fees to prospective immigrants for the verification but you need to pay the intermediary company and the fees aren't fixed so you can wind up paying anywhere from around $80 to $400.

I swear, every service in Canada seems to work this way. It's almost identical to their Education Assessment system and the cynic in me thinks it's just a way to pump additional easy foreign revenue into the Canadian private sector.
Ahh right, nothing is simple then!
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 1:54 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
They're not asking for more information, they're asking me to go through yet another expensive, complex and extremely intrusive process.

I've checked with my local police force and they will want 80 GBP just to take my fingerprints. Add whatever the RCMP and the agency(ies) who left the most cash behind the CIC's radiator decide to charge plus the recorded postage fees between the UK and Canada and I can't imagine the final cost will be cheap.

The fact they have singled me out for this in particular and most people don't have to do it only rubs additional salt into the wound.
to be fair this is no different to getting a police certificate for many countries my wife's from the FBI for instance.

You don't want to know the process to get one from Argentina but it involved a trip to the consulate in Ontario and having someone actually in Argentina file the paperwork. Flights to Toronto alone were $500.

I do agree with others that you may be over reacting a tad on this. I know the process is frustrating and bureaucratic but so are any and all governments processes.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 2:16 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

I don't know what your motivations are for moving to Canada. But based on this thread, the cost benefit analysis of you making the move must be pretty balanced at this point if this issue is enough to change the decision. Personally, I would run through downtown Toronto in a mankini if CIC insisted on it (perhaps a good way of CIC down selecting only those people who really want to move to Canada...)

You have already gone through what I think most would agree is a painful and expensive process in applying in the first place. The additional money obviously isn't an issue - if a few hundred dollars is any sort of factor then as others have recommended, stay put.

As for being 'singled out' for special treatment, if there is someone else who shares my name/dob/details that I wouldn't want to live next door to, then I would have no issue whatsoever in going through whatever process is requested so that CIC can be 100% sure of my history. Sure, it is bad luck, but that's life.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 4:42 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I'm not sure if you're suggesting anything. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions but let's just get this out of the way now. I have done nothing wrong. During my time in Canada I never so much as exchanged glances with a police officer and in other countries I've only ever dealt with the police as a victim or witness.

If I had a criminal record then I wouldn't have even considered starting this process, especially if that record was in Canada as one would assume checking their own systems would be a somewhat trivial matter. Chances are they're more inept than I originally thought but in any case, I honestly wouldn't take that risk or waste my own money, work and time.

What I object to is being singled out, made to feel like a criminal, and forced to endure additional inconvenience and expense. If it helps to illustrate my point, I have refused to visit the United States on principle ever since the introduction of ESTA. On the one occasion that I did, it was because I needed to flagpole and there was pretty much no other feasible alternative with the time available.

This common assumption in the post-2001 world that if you're unwilling to surrender everything and sit up and bark in response to every bureaucratic command then you automatically must have something to hide is quite frankly concerning.
But you're not being 'singled out' - thousands of people are asked to supply RCMP checks and you've already seen a couple just in this thread.

I do think you are over-reacting, to be honest. This is a small step in gaining PR, which is something you've worked hard and long at, to get to the place you are at. Having lived in Canada already, you know that it's a place where they like to check boxes and confirm information.

It's no more intrusive that supplying a UK ACRO police check, other than your fingerprints, nor any of the forms you have already filled out countless times. As has already been explained, this is to rule you out as another person - not intruding on your life.

I'd suggest just getting on with it and getting it done, you've already paid for everything else (and no, you won't get a refund of the processing fee).. why chuck the baby out with the dirty water because you don't like that they have asked you?

I went through nearly 5 years of beurocracy to get PR, I know it can be a total pain in the arse and an expensive one at that. I had to pay for 2 medicals and TB testing, my son 2 medicals and addtional consultations. You want to know about 'intrusive enquiries'? Try having your son have to attend a psychologist appointment because he admitted smoking a joint when he was 15!

It's not a difficult thing to get done. Have you looked for 'digital fingerprint' services?


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Old Aug 4th 2017, 5:12 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Try having your son have to attend a psychologist appointment because he admitted smoking a joint when he was 15!
and that's even nearly legal now. Now that is overkill.
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Old Aug 6th 2017, 2:55 am
  #43  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

I wonder if this answers your question as to why you have been asked for an RCMP check ............

it was recently posted on the thread Scottish / British Police Check, by that thread's OP answering his own question .................


We have been here [Canada] since Feb 2012,and it states on application we only need police checks for the " country we have been in for 183 days or more in the 4 years immediately before application "

Following the link further it tells me
"the canadian visa office will notify you if you need to do a Canadian criminal record check while the application is being processed "

DG ...... could you have been in Canada for more than 183 days in the 4 years immediately preceding when you began this current application?
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Old Aug 6th 2017, 4:25 am
  #44  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

I don't know much about Canadian immigration but it seems that because you were legally in Canada previously , you are on some database the immigration people can access and the case officer has decided he needs an RCMP clearance for you. That's his decision and he doesn't have to tell you the reason why as I understand it. If you are keen to get the EE then it's a case of saying "beggar it" and just do it. Trying to analyse it only causes you aggro! Each immigration application is different and case officers may, or may not, ask for further info. Your application is in progress and the case officer wants more info , so yes, I can understand you thinking it's "incomplete" but so far as the system is concerned it's in progress , just that they want more details having examined your submission. From your comments it does sound like you're not that bothered about going back to Canada, but if you are then you need to meet whatever requirements are asked of you. I'll shut up now.
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Old Aug 6th 2017, 4:29 am
  #45  
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Default Re: RCMP Criminal Record Check from UK for EE application

The Officer may not be a "he" (but s/he can indeed ask for any document during processing).

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