Proof of Funds For PR

Old May 4th 2016, 6:52 am
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Default Proof of Funds For PR

Hi everyone,

Can anyone point me to some more detailed guidance from CIC on what types of money sources can be use to demonstrate proof of funds.

At the moment I just have the advice that it can't be borrowed.

In my particular case I am trying to work out if the value of the shares I own in my employee owned company would count.

Cheers
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Old May 4th 2016, 9:45 am
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Do I need to include proof of funds for Express Entry?

You will be asked to enter in your Express Entry profile the amount of money you will have to help you settle in Canada. This is to show that you can support yourself and any family who come with you to Canada, and helps us assess which programs you may be eligible for.

You will only need to meet the settlement fund requirement if it applies to the program you are invited to apply under.

If you are invited to apply under the Federal Skilled Worker Program or Federal Skilled Trades Program, you will need to show that you meet the settlement funds requirement unless you:

are currently authorized to work in Canada, and
have a valid job offer from an employer in Canada.
Note: You do not have to meet the funds requirement if you were invited to apply under the Canadian Experience Class.

The system currently asks all applicants to provide a proof of funds document. If you don’t need to provide proof of funds, you must upload a letter explaining either that you have been invited to apply under the Canadian Experience Class, or that you have a valid job offer.

Also read these links
Proof of funds – Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)
Applications received on or after January 1, 2016, for permanent residence programs subject to the Express Entry completeness check
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Old May 4th 2016, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Do I need to include proof of funds for Express Entry?

You will be asked to enter in your Express Entry profile the amount of money you will have to help you settle in Canada. This is to show that you can support yourself and any family who come with you to Canada, and helps us assess which programs you may be eligible for.

You will only need to meet the settlement fund requirement if it applies to the program you are invited to apply under.

If you are invited to apply under the Federal Skilled Worker Program or Federal Skilled Trades Program, you will need to show that you meet the settlement funds requirement unless you:

are currently authorized to work in Canada, and
have a valid job offer from an employer in Canada.
Note: You do not have to meet the funds requirement if you were invited to apply under the Canadian Experience Class.

The system currently asks all applicants to provide a proof of funds document. If you don’t need to provide proof of funds, you must upload a letter explaining either that you have been invited to apply under the Canadian Experience Class, or that you have a valid job offer.

Also read these links
Proof of funds – Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)
Applications received on or after January 1, 2016, for permanent residence programs subject to the Express Entry completeness check
Thanks FL I had seen them but it doesn't necessary tell you what you can and can't include. i.e. property is ok but cars aren't etc.

My current thoughts are proof from my company that I own the shares, current company share price valuation and confirmation that the shares can be sold if required.
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Old May 4th 2016, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

The only specific reference I could find is this one but you may want to wait for confirmation from others as to what they supplied.

Applications received on or after January 1, 2016, for permanent residence programs subject to the Express Entry completeness check
Purpose

To confirm whether the applicant meets the low-income cut-off (LICO), assessed by the amount of money they hold compared to the number of people in their family

Document requirements
The applicant should provide an official letter(s) from one or more financial institutions that lists all current bank and investment accounts as well as outstanding debts, such as credit card debts and loans.
o The letter(s) must be printed on the letterhead of the financial institution and must include the applicant’s name, the contact information of the financial institution (address, telephone number and email address), the account numbers, the date each account was opened and the current balance of each account as well as the average balance for the past six months.
Other documents may also be requested, as necessary.
(This is the same link that Former Lancastrian gave, by the way)

Last edited by Siouxie; May 4th 2016 at 12:17 pm.
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Old May 4th 2016, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Thanks, does this mean you have to hold the funds above and beyond any debt .i.e $10,000 in savings but $10,000 on a credit card =0 as avalible funds?

Part of my issue is that the shares are with my wholly employee owned company, we are not publically traded.
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Old May 4th 2016, 1:10 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

IIRC before Express Entry came in and dependent on the visa office some would accept the property value as funds plus bank accounts etc. CIC used a phrase the funds had to be unencumbered if they did not accept property as part of your funds.

un·en·cum·bered
ˌənenˈkəmbərd/Submit
adjective
not having any burden or impediment.
"he needed to travel light and unencumbered"
free of debt or other financial liability.

The funds could also not be borrowed.
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Old May 4th 2016, 1:15 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
IIRC before Express Entry came in and dependent on the visa office some would accept the property value as funds plus bank accounts etc. CIC used a phrase the funds had to be unencumbered if they did not accept property as part of your funds.

un·en·cum·bered
ˌənenˈkəmbərd/Submit
adjective
not having any burden or impediment.
"he needed to travel light and unencumbered"
free of debt or other financial liability.

The funds could also not be borrowed.
Ok think I get it now, i.e you can only use the % of property value not mortgaged, leaned etc. Presumably though if you have cash or investment it doesn't matter if you also have credit card/student loans as these are not connected to the cash funds.

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Old May 4th 2016, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad
Ok think I get it now, i.e you can only use the % of property value not mortgaged, leaned etc. Presumably though if you have cash or investment it doesn't matter if you also have credit card/student loans as these are not connected to the cash funds.

Cheers

Think of it this way -

Total assets less total liabilities = net worth.

The funds have to be available to you at the time of becoming a Permanent Resident, IIRC.

You may find this useful - Do I need to include proof of funds for Express Entry?
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Old May 4th 2016, 2:06 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Think of it this way -

Total assets less total liabilities = net worth.

The funds have to be available to you at the time of becoming a Permanent Resident, IIRC.

You may find this useful - Do I need to include proof of funds for Express Entry?
So now I'm doubting what I put before. You f I have 10,000 cash and 10,000 on a credit card is my proof of funds 0? If so how does anyone with student loans who doesn't own a home show proof of income?
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Old May 4th 2016, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad
So now I'm doubting what I put before. You f I have 10,000 cash and 10,000 on a credit card is my proof of funds 0? If so how does anyone with student loans who doesn't own a home show proof of income?
Savings?

As given on CIC's website - quoted above "...lists all current bank and investment accounts as well as outstanding debts, such as credit card debts and loans."


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Old May 4th 2016, 4:55 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Savings?
This is hypothetical but yes 10,000 in a savings account = cash

I know it says they want up see the information but how do they factor it is. Are we saying that if you have say 10,000 debt on a credit card plus student loan of 30,000 you would have to show in excess of 50,000 proof of avalible funds for PR?

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Old May 4th 2016, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad
This is hypothetical but yes 10,000 in a savings account = cash

I know it says they want up see the information but how do they factor it is. Are we saying that if you have say 10,000 debt on a credit card plus student loan of 30,000 you would have to show in excess of 50,000 proof of avalible funds for PR?
After doing a massive google search for you, I came across the New Brunswick PNP Statement of Funds pdf online. You will see from it that you have to list all assets and liabilities. I'm presuming that the main CIC EE Statement of Funds document will be similar if not identical - perhaps others could check it and let you know. I'm pretty sure with the CIC one you have to show proof in the form of letters from banks etc.

https://www.pxw1.snb.ca/snb7001/e/10...NBPNP-022E.pdf



Attached Thumbnails Proof of Funds For PR-assets-liabilities.jpg  

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Old May 4th 2016, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Siouxie
After doing a massive google search for you, I came across the New Brunswick PNP Statement of Funds pdf online. You will see from it that you have to list all assets and liabilities. I'm presuming that the main CIC EE Statement of Funds document will be similar if not identical - perhaps others could check it and let you know. I'm pretty sure with the CIC one you have to show proof in the form of letters from banks etc.

https://www.pxw1.snb.ca/snb7001/e/10...NBPNP-022E.pdf



Thank you for that what is interesting is they seem like two separate calculations I.e. Net worth and transferable funds. It would seem silly to require someone to hold enough money plus living funds to pay off all liabilities at a fixed point in time given that the terms of those liabilities may be over many years.

Thank you for spending the time looking and hopefully someone will come along who has been through it recently. If not it may be either CEC or an LMIA for me.
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Old May 4th 2016, 6:09 pm
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad
Thank you for that what is interesting is they seem like two separate calculations I.e. Net worth and transferable funds. It would seem silly to require someone to hold enough money plus living funds to pay off all liabilities at a fixed point in time given that the terms of those liabilities may be over many years.

Thank you for spending the time looking and hopefully someone will come along who has been through it recently. If not it may be either CEC or an LMIA for me.
You are very welcome

Not really, the document is to show your assets and liabilities; think of it as an accounting document - a work sheet and then the end result - net worth - being the amount of money you would have for the proof of funds that are free and clear that can be used to set yourself up in Canada. It's not about how long it may take you to pay off the liabilities, you have to prove that you can afford to sustain yourself - they presume that you will earn enough in the future to pay off any outstanding debts that are due over time. I do get what you are talking about, but that isn't how CIC look at it.


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Old May 5th 2016, 2:41 am
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Default Re: Proof of Funds For PR

Originally Posted by Siouxie
You are very welcome

Not really, the document is to show your assets and liabilities; think of it as an accounting document - a work sheet and then the end result - net worth - being the amount of money you would have for the proof of funds that are free and clear that can be used to set yourself up in Canada. It's not about how long it may take you to pay off the liabilities, you have to prove that you can afford to sustain yourself - they presume that you will earn enough in the future to pay off any outstanding debts that are due over time. I do get what you are talking about, but that isn't how CIC look at it.

sorry I didn't see the thumb nail image. I am holding off a rant about the system as it is unproductive.

Based on this information, something we could really use a wiki on as I imagine it is the bigger hurdle to most people under 30-40 than the CRS points, I cannot come on FSW program but could need CEC. My questions if I apply for EE and qualify for both can I turn down an ITA under FSW and hold out for an ITA under CEC?
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