PR status 730 day rule Question

Old Mar 3rd 2012, 10:37 am
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Default PR status 730 day rule Question

hypothetical question -
Your a UK passport holder with Canadian PR status
You have re-entered Canada but lets say
if you were not going to meet 730 days in the first 5 years, could you not wait past PR card expiry date and remain in Canada (after PR card expiry date) and then accumulate enough time after PR card expiry to have at least 730 days in the last 5 years (the reference point of "today" for previous 5 years calculation having now moved ahead on the calendar).

Once the 730 days or more are accumulated, you would then be considered ready to apply for PR card renewal by mailing the now expired card with PR renewal package.
(would a gap in expiry of old PR card before renewal for your replacement PR card flag up a problem possibly)
I far as I understand the currently don't carry out exit checks, you can just let your PR card expire and wait until you have completed 730 days and then apply to renew. As far as I can see they only ask for the 5 year period immediately before you apply for renewal.
I am missing something and has anyone have experience on this subject.

Last edited by Scotjames; Mar 3rd 2012 at 10:52 am.
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 10:52 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Scotjames
hypothetical question -
You have re-entered Canada but lets say
if you were not going to meet 730 days in the first 5 years, could you not wait past PR card expiry date and remain in Canada (after PR card expiry date) and then accumulate enough time after PR card expiry to have at least 730 days in the last 5 years (the reference point of "today" for previous 5 years calculation having now moved ahead on the calendar).

Once the 730 days or more are accumulated, you would then be considered ready to apply for PR card renewal by mailing the now expired card with PR renewal package.
(would a gap in expiry of old PR card before renewal for your replacement PR card flag up a problem possibly)
I far as I understand the currently don't carry out exit checks, you can just let your PR card expire and wait until you have completed 730 days and then apply to renew. As far as I can see they only ask for the 5 year period immediately before you apply for renewal.
I am missing something and has anyone have experience on this subject.
It doesn't work like that I'm afraid!

To keep PR status you need to be physically present in Canada (or meet other conditions - ie. being abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse for example) for 2 years out of every 5 year period to keep your status.

The expiry date on the card applies to the card itself so in order to renew your card you need to prove you met the residency conditions *before* the card expires not after (which is technically when the new 5 year period would commence).

If you do remain in Canada after expiry of the card and you've not met the residency requirements they could technically deport you.

Check this out:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa....asp#appendixA

Appendix A: Residency obligation

Minimum residency obligations

You must meet the residency obligation to obtain a Permanent Resident Card. The following table represents the minimum requirements.
  • If you have been a permanent resident for Five (5) years or more
    • you must have been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years.
  • If you have been a permanent resident for less than five (5) years
    • you must show that you will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days physical presence in Canada at the five (5)-year mark.
HTH

Last edited by andy85; Mar 3rd 2012 at 10:57 am.
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:00 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Read these 2 links regarding 730 day requirement and PR card
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc.../enf23-eng.pdf
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc.../enf27-eng.pdf
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:01 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by andy85
It doesn't work like that I'm afraid!

To keep PR status you need to be physically present in Canada (or meet other conditions - ie. being abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse for example) for 2 years out of every 5 year period to keep your status.

The expiry date on the card applies to the card itself so in order to renew your card you need to prove you met the residency conditions *before* the card expires not after (which is technically when the new 5 year period would commence).

If you do remain in Canada after expiry of the card and you've not met the residency requirements they could technically deport you.

Check this out:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa....asp#appendixA

Appendix A: Residency obligation

Minimum residency obligations

You must meet the residency obligation to obtain a Permanent Resident Card. The following table represents the minimum requirements.
  • If you have been a permanent resident for Five (5) years or more
    • you must have been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years.
  • If you have been a permanent resident for less than five (5) years
    • you must show that you will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days physical presence in Canada at the five (5)-year mark.
HTH
so its not possible to delay your PR renewal once your existing PR card has expired
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:07 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Thanks for your replies you two.
Has anyone been unable to meet the 730 day requirement but managed to retain PR status in Canada. I'd be interested to hear your story.
Thanks again
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:16 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Scotjames
Thanks for your replies you two.
Has anyone been unable to meet the 730 day requirement but managed to retain PR status in Canada. I'd be interested to hear your story.
Thanks again
Ive had clients who were unable to meet the 730 day requirement and have been issued Removal Orders. They have 37 days to appeal the order.
If no appeal they NEED to leave or risk being arrested then removed. If order is appealed then the Immigration & Refugee Board make the decision as per the ENF 23 link procedures.
Ive seen ruling given in favour of the PR and against.
Is this something you really want to risk?
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:24 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Ive had clients who were unable to meet the 730 day requirement and have been issued Removal Orders. They have 37 days to appeal the order.
If no appeal they NEED to leave or risk being arrested then removed. If order is appealed then the Immigration & Refugee Board make the decision as per the ENF 23 link procedures.
Ive seen ruling given in favour of the PR and against.
Is this something you really want to risk?
I take on board your advise but at this stage I'm en route to meet the 730day
requirement as I mentioned its only a hypothetical question at this point in time but I certainly wouldn't want to 'risk' not meeting the requirements but you never know what things can happen in the future that can always push the best laid plans off track.
Thanks again for your input.
Any body who hasn't been able to meet the 730 day requirements for what ever reason I'd certainly be interested to hear your direct experience.

Last edited by Scotjames; Mar 3rd 2012 at 11:29 am.
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:27 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Scotjames
so its not possible to delay your PR renewal once your existing PR card has expired
Well the card can expire and that's not a problem as it's just given to you as proof of status for airlines and is useful for people who would ordinarily need a visa to get into Canada - but that doesn't apply to us Brits so we can still enter Canada without the PR card.

However, even though they dont stamp your passport when you leave, believe me they will know when you left (passenger lists, immigration records) and can and probably would check this.

If you don't meet the residency requirements and you basically lie to them (which is what you would be doing) they will definitely not be in your favour!!

It makes no difference that you are British - rules are rules!
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:34 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Actually if we have doubts about the 730 day requirements it is up to the PR to prove they meet the residency requirement.
as for the travelling without valid PR card its not something I would do as there was just a case recently where a British PR was refused entry onto an aircraft for not having a valid PR card.
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:40 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by andy85
Well the card can expire and that's not a problem as it's just given to you as proof of status for airlines and is useful for people who would ordinarily need a visa to get into Canada - but that doesn't apply to us Brits so we can still enter Canada without the PR card.

However, even though they dont stamp your passport when you leave, believe me they will know when you left (passenger lists, immigration records) and can and probably would check this.

If you don't meet the residency requirements and you basically lie to them (which is what you would be doing) they will definitely not be in your favour!!

It makes no difference that you are British - rules are rules!
Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Actually if we have doubts about the 730 day requirements it is up to the PR to prove they meet the residency requirement.
as for the travelling without valid PR card its not something I would do as there was just a case recently where a British PR was refused entry onto an aircraft for not having a valid PR card.
hypothetical position would be that PR would be valid on re-entering Canada.


thanks again you guys for your replies
I'd still be interested to hear from anyone with direct experience who hasn't been able to meet the 730 day requirements for what ever reason be the end result be positive or not.

Last edited by Scotjames; Mar 3rd 2012 at 11:49 am.
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:43 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Why? just to answer a hypothetical question
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:52 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

keeps me busy looking forward to your replies if nowt else

Last edited by Scotjames; Mar 3rd 2012 at 11:55 am.
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 11:58 am
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Scotjames
keeps me busy looking forward to your replies if nowt else
Keeps me busy as well issuing Removal Orders to PRs who dont meet the 730 day requirement
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Keeps me busy as well issuing Removal Orders to PRs who dont meet the 730 day requirement
do they do hypothetical removal orders
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Old Mar 3rd 2012, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: PR status 730 day rule Question

Originally Posted by Scotjames
do they do hypothetical removal orders
Nope just actual in your face ones.
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