Stumpylegs

Hi there, long time lurker and reader first time poster here - as things have got a lot more 'real' in the last couple of weeks. looking to hopefully emigrate to Canada in late 2020 early 2021, and I am getting/reading conflicting advice and stories and was hoping for some guidance.

I'm currently 31 years old, qualified mechanic and master tech in the UK, worked as a mechanic for around 6 years including a 4 year apprenticeship, then moved up to being a garage supervisor for another 6 years and have spent the last 2 years as Health,Safety and Environmental manager.

Visited Canada for 5 weeks last year travelling around BC and Alberta with a view to thinking about moving over there. Came back and due to a parent falling ill everything went on hold, we had the news last week this is terminal and they may have 6 months or so to live.

I've spent hours on this forum, reading various government and provincial websites, google etc. and have a number of questions.

Providing I get a average to decent IELTS score and my qualifications are accepted I should easily gain the points to apply for EE to go into the pool.

But looking at the numbers for CRS then I seem to have anywhere between 360 and 460 on my own ( my qualifications are a bit of a strange one, i have a 4 year apprenticeship which gained me a Level 4 qualification in one subject, but then as part of that i also gained a 3 year level 3 qualification in another similar subject for the same skills. I then also have a couple of Level 3 qualifications (viewed as equivalent to a British A level in different subjects, but these where gained either via distance learning over a few month period, or 3 week courses on top of underpinning knowledge).

The partner could possibly bump up a few points with an IELTS score, but she is fairly useless at tests (and as a result, whilst having a decent job, she has poor qualifications).

Now to the questions part.

Would you recommend applying with a score of 400+, or would your recommend I don't apply till I get scores of 450 or higher?


Secondly PNP and in general Canadian qualifications are confusing the hell out of me, PNP is clearly the golden ticket as it would basically mean you were almost automatically accepted.

Looking at Saskatchewen, my trade is on the approved workstream but I would then need to get a trade qualifier assessment and sit exams (i have sat mock journeyman exams for my trade and passed, although would want to do some more work before sitting the real thing).

Can PNP be used for people who currently aren't in the country? and if so...

Can I get a trade qualifier assessment off UK qualifications? Can I be eligible to sit exams whilst not having a work or student visa or a PR card(i.e could i fly over for a week, sit exams and fly back before entering my express entry application).

The other option I keep seeing under PNP with nothing listed as requirements is farmers/livestock workers etc. early in my career I did labouring on a farm as a second income - whilst this isn't of much use now, would gaining a qualification in farming/farm equipment operation allow me entry - as how you prove you are a farmer is a bit of a strange one, as most of the farmers i know don't hold qualifications in farming, they just did it from 15/16 and learnt the ropes with the odd person here and there having a qualification in operating farm machinery for insurance purposes.

Lastly - French, is it worth it? I did french at high school/GCSE level with average results - some people are saying its not worth the few points you get, others are saying you can get a sizeable amount of points with a bit of work? without effort I could tell you my name, my age, the fact i like mountain biking and that i want to order 3 beers and a hamburger. but if they asked me to talk about the downturn in the economy for 2 minutes, I would be useless.

Sorry for all the questions, but short of the points one which I have heard different stories and numbers banded about etc I am struggling to find answers to the rest.

crofty82

From everything you've said it sounds like a good chunk of your potential points total is down to whether or not your qualifications can be assessed for an ECA, and in order to apply you have to have the ECA and IELTS already done.

So if one of the recognised institutions that does the ECAs (WES for example) comes back and says they can't assess it, or they have assessed it but it gives you fewer points than you were expecting, there probably isn't much that can bump your score up anyway. So "waiting" will be no advantage to you because your score is your score. Improving your French, getting another (academic) qualification, getting a better IELTS score or a job offer are the things that typically can boost a score.

I'm sure you know this but the cut off scores haven't dropped below 440 or so for quite some time, so it may be wise to get that ECA done and remove the uncertainty. Others more qualified will no doubt be along soon to confirm or dispute this.

scilly

Bumping up your French to get points will take more than a little bit of study ............ school leaving age and graduation in Canada is Grade 12, age usually 17-19. Graduation is usually considered equivalent to A level in the UK.

GCSE's will give you some points but you will need to upgrade your French to above A level.

Stumpylegs

Thanks, yes when i look at it - my application (although i assume like most) will be completely based on qualifications, my age and a hope that as a native english speaker who generally performs quite well in tests and doesn't rely too heavily on spelling or grammar checks that I can with some prep get a high score on my IELTS

IELTS is hopefully being booked for March/April - the only reason i haven't sorted out my ECA yet is i have misplaced all my certificates, and to replace all of them will most likely cost me several hundred pounds (the important ones rack up to £300) for something which definitely hasn't been chucked out so I am doing some (more) desperate searching before payday to see if they turn up before biting the bullet.

But in the mean time I can't help but ask questions and try to understand everything better,
Thanks, it wasn't so much about the qualifications, but about the difficulty of obtaining a decent mark on the TEF score with such knowledge for additional CRS points, I saw somewhere else unless you could speak fluent French to not bother unless it was your only option. but then I also have seen comments from people whose first language is neither English or French saying that with 100 hours of study they learnt enough to get an extra 10 CRS points - which seemed like a good investment of time, especially when I have at some point in my life studied 400+ hours of French already so should be able to pick at least some of it up.

Siouxie

Hello and welcome to BE

So sorry to hear about your parent, tough times indeed.

First and foremost is to slow down a tad there's a lot of reading to do and steps to take

1st step is to determine which Province you are most likely wanting to go to - as your Trade is a Regulated one in most of them - which means you will need to challenge the Certificate of Qualification for your Province of Choice. Basically this means proving you have sufficient work experience. For BC you can find the steps here: https://www.itabc.ca/apply-apprentic...llenging-exams for Alberta: https://tradesecrets.alberta.ca/expe...ional-workers/

If you get your Certificate of Qualification - OR a valid job offer - then you could apply under Federal Skilled Worker - TRADES (link below) or if you could find an employer willing to go through the hassle and expense of obtaining an LMIA, potentially through Provincial Nomination https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...ed-trades.html

So - for the Immigration part... First of all go here and see if you might qualify: Your session has expired - Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada
Then go here to see what points you would have for Express Entry : Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool: skilled immigrants (Express Entry)

Then come back and let us know what points you have!

The points requirement for Trades stream to get an invite from the EE pool is far lower - from around 285 upwards, but there are very few rounds of invitations for the Trades stream a year.See above - you can also read more here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...ees/works.htmlSee above - although mechanic is a voluntary trade in Saskatchewan I think http://saskapprenticeship.ca/experie...kers-overview/ It depends on the Province - on the link upthread for PNP you can go to each Provincial website to look at the requirements of each of their streams - they have many See above - you challenge based on the number of hours of provable experience you have NOT what qualification you might have held in the UK.. but if you do need to sit an exam you can normally fly in without an issue to sit it

Siouxie

Umm not quite in this case...

Trade qualification are not assessed for ECA's... nor is there a requirement for the TRADES to have an ECA done... it's different to other streams.

None of the ECA companies assess Trades / non academic qualifications...

Trades stream points has been as low as 284 in the last year.




Not relevant for people applying under FSW Trades really - there is no requirement for ECA for Trades and GCSE's wouldn't give more than a very few points, we don't normally suggest that people have them assessed as they are not the equivalent of High School Graduation here.

Stumpylegs

Thanks Siouxie, that answers quite a few questions -with reference my mother whilst its an awful situation to be in it has very much brought forward the plans to leave the emmigrate, which has highlighted that if I am to make this dream a reality I may need to go back to school!

I have already done my EE eligibility checker and I get in(unless they discount all of my qualifications as being purely high school). with reference my CRS score it sits anywhere between 313 and 465 (it may have been 315 and 463) using only my scores providing i do well on an IELTS test. - with the huge swing being purely on what my ECA regards my qualifications as.

My other half could potentially get us 25 points, but would struggle with the stress of the exams(especially knowing what is potentially at stake) and without a very strange mix of situations I can't find a point where we would sit below 450 and above 420 or so to be at a point where her scores would take us over the line.

I've previously been through the PNP sites for each province and have either found my trade stream isn't listed, or I don't have a job offer with a LMIA (and apparently within my trades whilst there is a high demand for us and we sit on streams for several provinces, most employers don't even reply to job applications unless you are in Canada with PR). the exception that I can see being Saskatchewan that needs me to sit exams. (the exam would also boost my CRS score if my ECA didn't allow my qualifications to count).

Alberta doesn't appear to have its skillstreams/NOC codes listing for skill streams that I can see although i was told mechanics and there associated NOC codes where removed from the list of skill streams being accepted in mid 2017.

The other bit I find slightly perplexing is the other half, who is a finance and admin officer for a local government authority, could potentially get PNP with no job offer via Nova Scotia or Alberta according to an Indian based visa website (this is supported by the Nova Scotia website) is that really the case? its a job she is doing over here with no formal qualification on close to minimum wage - but would allow us to get PR, relocate, get jobs(its the kind of job she would be going into - either that or retail) then I am of course more than happy to let her be lead applicant (although I might not tell her until after she's sat the IELTS) -

Siouxie

Your trade doesn't need to be listed for the majority of the PNP streams.. you just have to have a valid job offer in NOC A O or B - and in some Provinces semi skilled C and D for specific employment industries.. (or have worked in the Province for x months, but that won't apply). It is possible to obtain a job offer, though difficult... and you need to be here shaking hands and having interviews - not trying to apply from overseas.


Your CRS score won't increase by sitting a TRADE qualification. ECA's are only for Academic qualifications - like degrees. What getting a Certificate of Qualification for your Province of choice would give you is the ability to apply under FSW (Trades) in Express Entry. Again, your TRADE qualifications won't normally count for Express Entry.. only Academic qualifications - because none of the ECA assessment companies will assess TRADE qualifications. Unless you have A Levels you won't have a high school equivalency.



The variation in your scores puzzles me - could you post what you are putting down and the points you are getting for each section please?

I think perhaps you are trying to get information from too many different sources - I'd suggest you stick to the Official Website (or Provincial Website) and BE. I wonder if you are getting a little confused about what you need for different Provinces and Federal Skilled Worker Trades under Express Entry?


Do bear in mind that many of the so -called "VISA" websites are not much more than scams.. in order to draw you in and get you to use them for high fees.. no, she wouldn't qualify.


Don't suppose either of you are under 31 or of Irish Ancestry and under 35.. there's an IEC 2 year working holiday visa that could be applied to the pool for.


Cheers

Stumpylegs

when going through the CRS assessment, if I get any less than the maximum 100 points in the skill transferability section. and add a Canadian trade qualification - it bumps the score up by 50 points to the maximum for that section.

Likewise on the express entry eligibility if i only list myself as having high school education, I currently don't meet the criteria, as soon as i answer the question about a Canadian trade qualification it jumps to the question about financial standing and family numbers and tells me I qualify and doesn't even ask about my education.

This is the bit that gets me, and it all boils down to the outcome of my ECA, I hold level a IMIAL level 4 diploma for automotive master technician, along with a level 3 diploma (again under IMIAL) for vehicle service and repair, i then have a level 3 BTEC in vehicle repair. all of these I see as trades

along with 2 level 3 qualifications in Fleet management and a level 3 qualification in health and safety - neither of which I see as a trade.

Level 3 qualifications are largely seen as being equivalent to 2 A levels, so could potentially only have high school graduation on there from the 2 none trade at best.

But i know someone (and this is the reason up until a couple of weeks ago when i started looking into it more I had convinced myself I was eligible)who had their A levels, foundation degree and their level 3 vehicle maintenance diploma assessed under ECA, and their level 3 diploma was viewed as a 3 or more year program (as it was taken over 3.5 years) at a college.


So basically if the word diploma and the length of the course satisfies ECA as it appeared to for someone I went to college with then i have 2 or more qualifications with 1 being at least 3 years in length and the 119 CRS points for education as well as 50 points for language skills and a post secondary education in skills transferability. if not I have high school education (at best) scoring me 28 which gives me the massive 140 point swing.

She is under 31(for 7 months), and I was aware of the visa, i just couldn't see a way how it could help our case for PR at this stage, or even allow me to work (potentially i could get myself over there with a substantial amount of money to see me through her 2 year period) unless I am missing something.

Siouxie

I understood you to say earlier that it would increase your ECA score - which it doesn't. A Certificate of Qualification - CoQ - which you would need to work in Provinces where your trade is Regulated you would get additional points for adaptability. Two different things...

Correct, because with a CoQ you would apply under the FSW Trades stream in EE - which doesn't require an ECA.. as explained upthread.



As to the rest


If you attended college full time for a minimum of 1 year (certificate) or 2-3 year Diploma then you may be able to get that assessed by ICES, you need to decide whether it is worth going to the time and expense to do so. Getting your C of Q will likely get you more points too.


As to the IEC working holiday route (many people do this) - if she was able to get a skilled job when she got here - any skilled job in NOC A O or B - there's lots of them - then you would be able to obtain a temporary open work permit on the back of hers. Additionally, if she has a year of Canadian Work Experience (and was lead applicant) then that would give you additional points as well... and also the possibility of gaining Provincial Nomination perhaps, with 6-12 months work experience and / or an employer willing to sponsor one of you.


I was just looking at the Atlantic Provinces Pilot Project.. and indeed, if by some chance she was able to find an employer able willing and qualified to offer her a position under the scheme, she might be able to get you here... apologies, I hadn't read the fine print on that scheme lately and hadn't realised it included NOC C.


https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...e-skilled.html


Best of luck - onwards and upwards!


Calling chrismasoompa ...!!!!

christmasoompa

You rang? Not sure I'm needed, you've summed it all up perfectly.

Stumpylegs

Apologies think I'd misworded it a bit, I meant a C of Q could potentially remove some of the negative effects of a poor ECA on my total CRS score rather than improving the ECA itself.

I'd been confused by the FSW as looking at the "FSW six selection factors" on the government website suggested you still needed 67 points on the EE eligibility checker to be eligible and doesn't mention using a trade certificate.

I've emailed Saskatchewan around entry requiremdnts and will be getting my documents in order in the hope that I can sit my exams in the next few months.

As a backup plan (as its simply not as secure an option as getting PR via tradestream or PNP) would you need to enter the country on IEC before your 31st birthday for the visa to be valid or just have your visa before this date?

Thanks for all your help and I'm guessing any questions on red seal or C of Q would be best placed in the general Canada forum?

christmasoompa

FSW and FST are two different streams - it's the FST that would be applicable to you.

You don't actually get your visa until you enter Canada anyway, but you'd just need an Invite to Apply before that date to qualify. I’m almost too old for International Experience Canada. Can I still apply?

Yep! Good luck.

Siouxie

Hint - there is no need to get an ECA if you apply under FSW (Trades) stream!


Is it your intention to go and live in Saskatchewan? If not, there's not a lot of point in getting your Certificate of Qualification from that Province.. they are not transferable - each Province has their own C o Q. The Red Seal Endorsement is attached to your Provincial Certificate of Qualification, so you need your C o Q first!


Additionally be aware that you are unlikely to be picked by another Province for Provincial Nomination if you have obtained your C o Q elsewhere.. they will see it as you having an interest in living in a different Province, rather than theirs. Get your C o Q from the Province you are most likely to a) want to live in but more importantly b) be able to find a job in.

Stumpylegs

Thanks both, I understand now that if I can get a C of Q I don't need an ECA - it was just the route I was originally looking down (purely because i thought my quals were worth more than they were on ECA ) so hadn't consider the idea of coming out to Canada to gain a C of Q

With reference where we live and work, at this stage its not too big a deal for me or the other half, generally the Canadian lifestyle is something we enjoy (outdoors, hiking, winter sports, canoeing) etc. I'm not convinced that 3/5/10 years down the line we won't be relocating elsewhere in Canada.

Couple of reasons why Saskatchewan was appealing to us as an initial landing place. aside from relatively low living costs, modest property prices and a large number of reasonably well paid jobs for my trade available.

1) I know a couple of people there, whilst both these people live hours apart and work in different trades, I always have a bit more hope that if the job opportunities aren't as plentiful as first thought (I am aware that 95% of my 18000 in the trade in the uk was based on diesel vans and trucks with weighing between 1500-3500kg with diesel engines from 1.3L to 2.5L, with a reasonable smattering of 4wd vehicles, and near enough no automatics - so whilst I may have the hours and the knowledge to be classed as a journeyman , my actual real world ability on an automatic 5.7L petrol will be a damn site lower initially ) a good word or a contact is worth a lot.

2) its the only PNP i can see where my NOC is currently on the list without a job offer.