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PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Old Nov 23rd 2007, 11:56 am
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Default PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Can anyone tell me what happens in the following circumstances.

If you go to Canada under the PNP with a temporary work permit and find that your job doesn't work out for whatever reason i.e.job not what it seemed or new company runs out of work and has to lay you off, or company is liquidated or any other reason where you lose the job that you've moved to Canada for.

If this was to happen before your permanent residents permit is issued (hopefully within 9 months of landing as you've already got a skilled worker application in the queue plus with Prov Nom), are you able to look for another job, do you have to get another PNP and work permit, etc.?

My son thinks if this was to happen, he would be forced to leave Canada and return to the UK immediately with no opportunity to stay.

Has this happened to anyone ? What would your position be, it seems an opportunity you wouldn't want to throw away.
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

HI

Originally Posted by NorthernTart
Can anyone tell me what happens in the following circumstances.

If you go to Canada under the PNP with a temporary work permit and find that your job doesn't work out for whatever reason i.e.job not what it seemed or new company runs out of work and has to lay you off, or company is liquidated or any other reason where you lose the job that you've moved to Canada for.

If this was to happen before your permanent residents permit is issued (hopefully within 9 months of landing as you've already got a skilled worker application in the queue plus with Prov Nom), are you able to look for another job, do you have to get another PNP and work permit, etc.?

My son thinks if this was to happen, he would be forced to leave Canada and return to the UK immediately with no opportunity to stay.

Has this happened to anyone ? What would your position be, it seems an opportunity you wouldn't want to throw away.

If the PNP certificate is withdrawn, then the applicant would have to find another job, get an LMO and hopefully another PNP certificate. The application is tied to the certificate.
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 5:22 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

I'm not too well up on this but why would the PNP certificate be withdrawn ? Is it because he loses his job or would there be other reasons, e.g. would the Province issuing the nomination be notified that he'd lost his job, say, if he was laid off ?
Incidentally, he didn't need to get a positive LMO in the first instance for the PNP to be approved.
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 5:23 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Also, any idea how long he'd have to find another job ?
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 5:35 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Hi

Originally Posted by NorthernTart
I'm not too well up on this but why would the PNP certificate be withdrawn ? Is it because he loses his job or would there be other reasons, e.g. would the Province issuing the nomination be notified that he'd lost his job, say, if he was laid off ?
Incidentally, he didn't need to get a positive LMO in the first instance for the PNP to be approved.
As the applicant is no longer working for the employer who applied for the certificate, the employer would request that the certificate be withdrawn. As the work permit is tied to the employer, and your work permit is specific to a that employer, you would have to get either a new PNP certificate and apply for a new work permit, or get an LMO from an employer and again apply for a new work permit.
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

I was in a similar situation to you and had similar thoughts at the time so maybe I can help a little here....

I got provincial nomination and once I had the nomination letter put in for a work permit because the employer was waiting for me to start asap. As I already had the nomination letter I didnt need to get an LMO and the work permit only took about a month to come through. I suspect this matches your circumstances?

For me it was a very real concern because I was going into a sales job and, lets face it, if you are there few months and dont manage to sell anything then you just get fired! Its the nature of the role. So while my employer was desperate for me to start the work permit was really a double edged sword. It meant that they got time to see what I was like before my Perm Residency came through and that could have been a bad thing. If they didnt like me or I was no good they could have fired me and then potentially the PNP application could have been frustrated because I no longer had a "job offer". In some ways it can be better not to start the job until the PNP process is completed and you get your PR visa cause then there's no danger of the employer changing their mind about you (or if they do it doesnt matter cause you already have your PR).

I think the key to it is partly in the timing. I didn't want to go too long on a WP before the PNP process got finalised. In my case it only took about 4 months between my starting the job on a WP and getting my PR visa so that worked out okay. Even if I did a hopeless loj they probably would have given me the benefit of the doubt for a few months. I would have been really concerned about doing that for a year though.

The chances of the things you mentioned going wrong are probably fairly slim though.

The other thing is that once you have the nomination letter and you put in your federal application the process seems to just take its course anyway without anybody asking for updated information. What I mean is that if you have the job offer letter then unless you tell them otherwise they will probably assume nothing has changed. To my knowledge CIC didnt make any enquiries of my employer prior to issuing the visa to check I was still working for the employer.
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

The point PMM makes about the work permit is correct though - the work permit is specific to the employer and you cant just start working for someone else. In my case the work permit was also restricted to me working in a particular province (I assume because it was linked to provincial nomination)
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 8:33 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

I'm confused ! I'm only vaguely familiar with people using the Alberta PNP to join Calgary Police. When the PNP stuff is finalised they already have Permanent Residency - the shiny visa and everything!

Is this specific to the police? because one actually has to be a permanent residence to be hired ? (It's a condition of employment).

I always thought it was a risk in a way 'cos people could do a few months with CPS, then bugger off - with residency already in place. I only thought there were restrictions that the person then had to stay in Alberta for one or two years or something like that?
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Old Nov 23rd 2007, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Originally Posted by ann m
I'm confused ! I'm only vaguely familiar with people using the Alberta PNP to join Calgary Police. When the PNP stuff is finalised they already have Permanent Residency - the shiny visa and everything!
When the PNP process is completed for all other applicants they too have permanent residency - the shiny visa and everything.

It's just that, for many other kinds of applicants, when the PNP process reaches a certain stage, the applicant is admitted into Canada on a temporary work permit. This allows him/her to work in Canada while his/her PNP application winds its way through the rest of the system.

PNP actually is a two-part process. The initial phase is the PNP application, which is handled by the province. The second phase is the PR application, which is handled by the federal government. The federal government is not obliged to accept an applicant who has been nominated by a province, but it often does accept such applicants. Sorry, I suppose you know that, but others may not.

There are some other kinds of PR applicants who also can get open work permits when their PR applications reach a certain stage. One category that comes to mind is a person who is being sponsored by a spouse and who has submitted an inland PR application. When such a person receives AIP (approval in principle), he/she is allowed to apply for an open work permit (that is, a work permit that does not need a Labour Market Opinion from HRSDC).

Is this specific to the police? because one actually has to be a permanent residence to be hired ? (It's a condition of employment).
It may apply to other groups as well, but the police are at least one group to whom it seems to apply. (My knowledge of police applications is sketchy, and is based on only a few posts that I've read on the forum.)

I always thought it was a risk in a way 'cos people could do a few months with CPS, then bugger off - with residency already in place. I only thought there were restrictions that the person then had to stay in Alberta for one or two years or something like that?
Well, be glad of that. In the case of a temporary work permit the shoe is on the other foot.

In my opinion a work permit applicant incurs a lot of risks. He/she has limitations and obligations, but can be dropped in the proverbial manure at various points along the way.

When I first came to this forum, I had a slightly dim view of work permits, for that reason. I wasn't as ready to recommend the WP route as I am now. It has been since the waiting times for PR visas via the skilled worker route have become so ridiculously long that I've compromised and recommended WPs. In fact a WP now is one of the few ways in which a person can expedite his/her entry into Canada and get around the skilled worker waiting times. They have become a necessary evil.

In my opinion a person is well advised to upgrade from a WP to PR as soon as possible.
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Old Dec 5th 2007, 3:41 am
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Hi I'm new to this but here goes. The situation you describe happened to us. We came over on a work permit, applied for the PNP, got accepted and 2 weeks later my husband lost his job. This was during that bit where you have 90 days to apply to London for PR and have to state where you are working! Husband applied for new job and had to get an LMO - they were getting sticky about the advertising so we went to the PNP people and they actually wrote a letter to London stating that we needed a new work permit asap and waived the need for an LMO and they sorted it all out for us in time to send off forms for PR with new job and new work permit in place. So in fact you don't risk losing the PNP, they can actually help save the situation.
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Old Dec 5th 2007, 8:23 am
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Thanks for that englishmummy.
My son is a Chartered Electronic Engineer in the UK and has a new job in Vancouver doing a similar thing, has PNP approval but if he was to loose that job, he doesn't think it would be easy to find another one quickly. May I ask what profession your husband is in and how he found another job so quickly ?
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Old Dec 6th 2007, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

Hello Northern Tart
My husband is a tree surgeon/arborist and he managed to find another employer very quickly which was great. I also think when push comes to shove, you can find another job when you have to. The alternative was to sell up and go home which was unbearable. I haven't heard of this happening to anyone else so think we were just very unlucky. We did sue the company and managed to get 3 months salary off them since they had brought us over so at least money wasn't an issue. The main worry for us was our dodgy immigration status since the work permit was valid for his old job and we hadn't got the new work permit yet. It was a very difficult time, but things happen and we got through it. Now we have permanent residency and are delighted to put it all behind us and enjoy life. As I said, the PNP people were wonderful and very helpful.
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Old Dec 6th 2007, 11:22 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

As the applicant is no longer working for the employer who applied for the certificate, the employer would request that the certificate be withdrawn
Fingers crossed my job is as safe as jobs go, but I have handled all WP, BC PNP and PR progesses myself.

Whenever BC PNP wrote to my employer, the letter was just passed to me to deal with.

If I was laid off, I doubt my employer would even know where to start about contacting BC PNP about getting my certificate withdrawn, let alone know that they had to do it.

My son is a Chartered Electronic Engineer in the UK and has a new job in Vancouver doing a similar thing, has PNP approval but if he was to loose that job, he doesn't think it would be easy to find another one quickly.
Northern Tart - I don't know about Electrical Eng. but Civil and Structural Engs. are in big demand in Vancouver at present.

I have no idea where I read this (I will try and do a search) but I am sure I've seen somewhere that if you loose your job in Canada whilst here on a non-open WP you don't have to leave Canada immiediately. You can stay until your WP expires. But if you find another job you have to apply for another WP (unless you are on an open WP) before starting. If you don't find another job and get a LMO or BC PNP sorted, before WP expiry then you have to leave Canada.

But if you get your PR before your WP expires then I assume you will be ok.

As I said, I am not 100% sure on this, but I am very sure I read it somewhere.

I hope all goes well for your son.

As I said, the PNP people were wonderful and very helpful.
englishmummy - we had a bit of sticky situation with implied status as Vegreville are taking so long to progess WP at present. I phoned our BC PNP case officer and he was really kind and helpful (so rare!)
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Old Dec 6th 2007, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

I have no idea where I read this (I will try and do a search) but I am sure I've seen somewhere that if you loose your job in Canada whilst here on a non-open WP you don't have to leave Canada immiediately.
Have a look at this thread and maybe PM poster #6 who Tuppence, experiened redundancy whilst on WPs.

I couldn't find anything on the CIC website though I'm afraid.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=482498
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Old Dec 7th 2007, 3:03 am
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Default Re: PNP, Work Permit. What happens if .....

[QUOTE=live to ski;5641577]
I have no idea where I read this (I will try and do a search) but I am sure I've seen somewhere that if you loose your job in Canada whilst here on a non-open WP you don't have to leave Canada immiediately. You can stay until your WP expires. But if you find another job you have to apply for another WP (unless you are on an open WP) before starting. If you don't find another job and get a LMO or BC PNP sorted, before WP expiry then you have to leave Canada.

When we sued the company for not honouring the work permit, our lawyer told us this exact information. You can stay for the duration of the work permit but cannot work unless get new permit. As I said the company paid up 3 months of salary so we could relax on that front. However our problem was that we had to apply to London for PR and we didn't want to take the risk and lie and say that my husband still had the same job or to admit that he was unemployed. Problem is even worse now as LMOs seem to be taking even longer. If it wasn't for the lovely people at the Nova Scotia Nominee Program we would have been fairly screwed!
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