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Permission to take child out of country problem

Permission to take child out of country problem

Old Oct 30th 2005, 7:21 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by jempee
No afraid not in kent, hopefully ex will put child first! hey i can live in hope!

Never rely on hope. Always have a back-up plan.

Even if you are in Kent, it may be feasible to use a solicitor elsewhere in the country (at least, elsewhere in England and Wales - the rest of the UK has different laws).


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Old Oct 30th 2005, 7:25 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by jempee
No afraid not in kent, hopefully ex will put child first! hey i can live in hope!
Lets hope so, i wish you the best of luck.
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 7:25 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by JAJ
Never rely on hope. Always have a back-up plan.

Even if you are in Kent, it may be feasible to use a solicitor elsewhere in the country (at least, elsewhere in England and Wales - the rest of the UK has different laws).


Jeremy
Back up plan.....HEmmmmm....... NO stop that train of thought.......

No seriously, thanks for all the replys. They are much appreciated and i feel a lot more confident with regards to the issue. I will resolve the problem.
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 7:27 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by andy_sheila
Lets hope so, i wish you the best of luck.
Thanks for your replys x
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 1:51 am
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Question Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

The UK is a funny country though - somethings 18 is the age of consent and in other situations it is 16 or 17. Most odd.[/QUOTE]

Hi to all who could advise,

I too have the sticky issue of getting permission from my sons father before i even contemplate filling in all those forms. I have a few questions that I would really appreciate peoples comments on. My son is currently 11 and has no contact with his father who i fear is nonetheless unlikely to be forthcoming with the permission. I had planned to simply wait it out till he was 16 but if i can't even take him on holiday i'm not sure i can wait that long, the visits would have kept us all going.

1. Does my son have to be 18 before we can emmigrate to Canada without permission from his father? (i thought it was 16 but i'm beginning to doubt this having read most of the postings throughout the Expats forum.)

2. Although we managed to scrape our way into B.C. on our last holiday (but we did get questioned both ends of the flight) do I legally need a letter to travel with him if its for less than 28 days?

Of course I understand that these laws need to be in place but oh what a pain.

Any thoughts gratefully received

Thanks
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 2:16 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by mogwi
The UK is a funny country though - somethings 18 is the age of consent and in other situations it is 16 or 17. Most odd.
Hi to all who could advise,

I too have the sticky issue of getting permission from my sons father before i even contemplate filling in all those forms. I have a few questions that I would really appreciate peoples comments on. My son is currently 11 and has no contact with his father who i fear is nonetheless unlikely to be forthcoming with the permission. I had planned to simply wait it out till he was 16 but if i can't even take him on holiday i'm not sure i can wait that long, the visits would have kept us all going.

1. Does my son have to be 18 before we can emmigrate to Canada without permission from his father? (i thought it was 16 but i'm beginning to doubt this having read most of the postings throughout the Expats forum.)

2. Although we managed to scrape our way into B.C. on our last holiday (but we did get questioned both ends of the flight) do I legally need a letter to travel with him if its for less than 28 days?

Of course I understand that these laws need to be in place but oh what a pain.

Any thoughts gratefully received

Thanks[/QUOTE]

1, Yes but i'm not 100% sure.
2, Yes, but only if your ex objects to you taking him abroad. I'm 100% sure but no-one will question it if your ex doesn't know.

If your ex has no input in your sons life then it's unlikely that he will even know that can block you from taking your son abroad, let alone go to court to enforce it.

If i were you, i would get a solicitor to apply to the family law court for pemission to take your son abroad, wherever and whenever you want.

HTH
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 3:15 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

If your sons father has no contact with his son, and does not pay anything towards his up keep then seek advice from a solicitor family lawyer. getting a court order would be the most official way. But getting court orders these days is frowned upon, and using the CSA to chase money or "mediation" to resolve issues is preferred. However Canada is not interested in this,. They are signed up to the Hague Convention to ensure children are not abducted, or taken away form their fathers / mothers without their knowledge.

If a partner does not pay for financial upkeep or see his son ( unless you dont let him) then I can see no reason for a court to say it is in the best interest of your son to stay in UK.
If your ex is financially providing but not having contact then again what difference is it to him if you are in Uk or Canada?

A court is always looking as to what is in the best interest of your son, not you or your ex.

In Uk 17 is the age at which they can emigrate in their own right, but immigration will see 18 as the age at which they can speak for themselves.
( A court in UK may see it differently, they will always listen to any child over 12 that wants to have their say in their life)

My suggestion is . Go to see a solicitor who deals in family law. Ask him to write a letter to your ex, stating your intentions to emigrate ( baring in mind it is likely to be 3-4 years before you get a visa anyway, and that your child will be 14-15 or older when it happens) and asking him what his objections would be. Wait for the reply.

If it is because he wants more access, start regular access now. If he does not honour what he has asked for then he has no case to argue.

If it was you stopping access for what ever reason, then I am afraid he may well have cause to say no, and you would have to wait until your son was older for him to be able to speak for himself.

You have a few years to try and sort it our anyway, as they will not ask for the letter until end of application stage in most cases.

To take your child on holiday overseas , you can I thought as long as the trip is 4 weeks or less.( without other parents approval) You should take proof of birth certificate, have a return ticket, and proof of custody / residency if possible. If you are only going for two weeks they just seem to issue reminders at immigration if the child is old wnough to talk!, as to what you should carry, but must get laughed at all the time by people from all over the world, as you do not get asked anywhere in Europe, or I havent anyway. With 2 out of 3 marriages breaking down and mother / fathers that have children by several different partners, some people must carry masses of paperwork everytime they go to Canada!!

Maybe get the solicitor to ask him if he will agree to signing a letter agreeing for you to take your son on holiday for say under 4 weeks at a time, "without further written permission from him" If it is done through a solicitor your ex should feel happier that he also has a legal document that he can throw in your face should you go against anything you have also agreed to.

Speak to the solicitor they usually write letters for small fee, and it is well worth it. Citizens advice can advise you of a family law solicitor, and you can sometimes get a free 15-30 minute appointment with one.





Originally Posted by mogwi
The UK is a funny country though - somethings 18 is the age of consent and in other situations it is 16 or 17. Most odd.
Hi to all who could advise,

I too have the sticky issue of getting permission from my sons father before i even contemplate filling in all those forms. I have a few questions that I would really appreciate peoples comments on. My son is currently 11 and has no contact with his father who i fear is nonetheless unlikely to be forthcoming with the permission. I had planned to simply wait it out till he was 16 but if i can't even take him on holiday i'm not sure i can wait that long, the visits would have kept us all going.

1. Does my son have to be 18 before we can emmigrate to Canada without permission from his father? (i thought it was 16 but i'm beginning to doubt this having read most of the postings throughout the Expats forum.)

2. Although we managed to scrape our way into B.C. on our last holiday (but we did get questioned both ends of the flight) do I legally need a letter to travel with him if its for less than 28 days?

Of course I understand that these laws need to be in place but oh what a pain.

Any thoughts gratefully received

Thanks[/QUOTE]
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 3:33 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

To take your child on holiday overseas , you can I thought as long as the trip is 4 weeks or less.( without other parents approval) You should take proof of birth certificate, have a return ticket, and proof of custody / residency if possible. If you are only going for two weeks they just seem to issue reminders at immigration if the child is old wnough to talk!, as to what you should carry, but must get laughed at all the time by people from all over the world, as you do not get asked anywhere in Europe


If the other parent objects (which i did) the parent who wants to take the child abroad (for whatever reason) has to apply to a judge to get permission (which my sons mother did)
I could have gone to the hearing and objected (with good reason) and the judge would have had the final say
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 10:51 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by gooding
If your sons father has no contact with his son, and does not pay anything towards his up keep then seek advice from a solicitor family lawyer. getting a court order would be the most official way. But getting court orders these days is frowned upon,
Why is it 'frowned upon'? It's the correct way to resolve an issue if the other parent will not co-operate and there is a good legal case.


and using the CSA to chase money or "mediation" to resolve issues is preferred. However Canada is not interested in this,. They are signed up to the Hague Convention to ensure children are not abducted, or taken away form their fathers / mothers without their knowledge.
I can't comment about CIC specifically, but I can tell you that as far as Australian immigration authorities are concerned, compliance with Hague Convention obligations is about ensuring that the law of the *home* country is observed, whatever that law is.

Different countries have different laws about what rights custodial parents have, and at what ages children can become 'independent' for the purpose of deciding where they can live.

In Uk 17 is the age at which they can emigrate in their own right, but immigration will see 18 as the age at which they can speak for themselves.
It would be interesting to see some specific references to legislation to support both these statements. It is not as black-and-white as you suggest.



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Old Nov 1st 2005, 8:29 pm
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

It was not that long ago I had to find out this information for my step son. Who wants to come with us when we go to Canada for a holiday, but would be stopped by his mother.
Having had to put up with 8 years of being dominated by his mother we wanted to know what his actual rights were, and at what age he can actually speak for himself without feeling threatened.
The Hague Convention and childrens rights ensures that all countries that sign up, work together to bring back children under 16 years of age that have been taken against their will and their best interest from their country of residence, and returned ONLY if it is in the childs best interest and dependent on their age, which is not laid down other than "below 16 or under" It is always the childrens best interest that is paramount.

Both parents should put their children first, by speaking to them , if they are at an age they can respond, as to what they want. If they are too young then again it is both parents that should put their differences behind them and decide what is best for the children.
If talking does not work, then a solicitor comes next, and a court order as last resort.

For us the children are teenagers now , and able to speak their mind, and because of this, my step son can make it quite clear what he wants and if he does not get it , he will make his mothers life hell to live with him.
My two step children were adamant they were going to have medicals against their mother will so they had the chance to go to Canada in the future. Even though their mother has now agreed for them to visit, she wont take them to the airport and they have made own arrangements to get to the airport when the time comes. This is not about what the children want any more but about what she does not want, this is the worry that if they visit they will not want to come back to her.
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Old Nov 2nd 2005, 5:40 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by gooding
It was not that long ago I had to find out this information for my step son. Who wants to come with us when we go to Canada for a holiday, but would be stopped by his mother.
Having had to put up with 8 years of being dominated by his mother we wanted to know what his actual rights were, and at what age he can actually speak for himself without feeling threatened.
The Hague Convention and childrens rights ensures that all countries that sign up, work together to bring back children under 16 years of age that have been taken against their will and their best interest from their country of residence, and returned ONLY if it is in the childs best interest and dependent on their age, which is not laid down other than "below 16 or under" It is always the childrens best interest that is paramount.

Both parents should put their children first, by speaking to them , if they are at an age they can respond, as to what they want. If they are too young then again it is both parents that should put their differences behind them and decide what is best for the children.
If talking does not work, then a solicitor comes next, and a court order as last resort.

For us the children are teenagers now , and able to speak their mind, and because of this, my step son can make it quite clear what he wants and if he does not get it , he will make his mothers life hell to live with him.
My two step children were adamant they were going to have medicals against their mother will so they had the chance to go to Canada in the future. Even though their mother has now agreed for them to visit, she wont take them to the airport and they have made own arrangements to get to the airport when the time comes. This is not about what the children want any more but about what she does not want, this is the worry that if they visit they will not want to come back to her.
Thankyou to everyone for their comments. Its always interesting to hear other peoples take on issues and how they've dealt with their individual cases. Sadly I think my case too will be more about what my sons father doesn't want than what my boy wishes to do himself. I'll chew it over some more, court action would likely be a messy and expensive route but I guess some decent legal advice is a must.

Thanks again

Mogwi
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Old Nov 2nd 2005, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by mogwi
Thankyou to everyone for their comments. Its always interesting to hear other peoples take on issues and how they've dealt with their individual cases. Sadly I think my case too will be more about what my sons father doesn't want than what my boy wishes to do himself. I'll chew it over some more, court action would likely be a messy and expensive route but I guess some decent legal advice is a must.

Thanks again

Mogwi
Most Family law specialist solicitors will give you a free 30 minute appointment, this is plenty of time for them to hear your story and to asssess the best course of action.
Legal aid is also available.

Good luck whatever you decide to do
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