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Permission to take child out of country problem

Permission to take child out of country problem

Old Oct 29th 2005, 2:57 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by gooding
You wont really need it as she will be 18 before your application is even looked at, but here explains why they ask for it.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/general/e...missing-e.html

The is the UK Passport Service version:
http://www.passports.gov.uk/_1_appli..._abduction.asp

Interestingly, the UK Child Abduction Act 1984 only applies to children under 16, not 18.



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Old Oct 29th 2005, 9:09 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by andy_sheila
You take the letter to a solicitor once you have it.
If your ex refuses and/or gives you hassle, see a solicitor and apply to your local family law court judge. The judge will give you permission straight away unless your ex gives a very good reason why you shouldn't take your daughter abroad.
I have been through all of this so i talk from experience.
Best wishes and good luck to you.
Andy
Have spoke to the family court and they said all they could advise is to fill in an application for a residence order which could take awhile. I was hoping that they would say that as she was over 16 i could take her out of the country without his permission but obviously not. Oh well will see if this letter arrives from ex.. thanks for the help, much appreciated.
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Old Oct 29th 2005, 9:12 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by JAJ
Maybe I'm missing something but the original poster says the child is turning 18 in 6 months - if it's a skilled case it's very unlikely to be decided by that stage and once child is 18, any issues of child custody ought to drop away.

I didn't think the English courts liked to get involved making custody orders over 16 and 17 year olds anyway, other than in exceptional cases.



Jeremy
We have been quoted 6-8 months for application as we have been accepted on PNP program, but this problem is holding us up. As i have replied to other poster i thought if she was over 16 there would be no problem but im obviously wrong. thanks for help and advice.
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Old Oct 29th 2005, 9:17 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by gooding
Did you know in Uk at 17 you can apply to emigrate without parental permission. YOu can also apply in your own right for a passport at 16 so it makes the Candadian requests daft for 16 year olds.

I was a single mum, never married and my daughter had my name. I took her all over Europe and never got stopped.
When she was 8 I married a man, and had her name changed by deed poll. I have two step childen, we all have the same name.

Now the fault in their system is this.
When we travel together they think we are one big family I am their "mum" and mark is their dad. Infact I am step mum to two.
When I last went I went on my own with my daughter she was just to turn 16, and I was asked if I was her mum? We both laughed and I said although I had tried to disown her at times this time I tried to leave but she followed!!

He laughed himself and just advised that next time we should really carry a birth certificate, and possibly a letter from her dad saying he was Ok with me taking her!! But as she was nearly 16 it di not really matter. Well her birth dad and step dad found this amusing, as have you ever tried telling a 16 year old to do something when they did not want to do it?

The immigration guy just said as she can speak for herself we are OK.


QUOTE=Tiaribbon]Jeremy, you certainly have a point there. Plenty 16 and 17 year olds go to Europe on vacation alone without any parents. I know our older children all went overseas alone without me or my husband and I don't ever recall having to sign anything for them.

The UK is a funny country though - somethings 18 is the age of consent and in other situations it is 16 or 17. Most odd.
[/QUOTE]


I understand what your saying that if immigration ask she can speak up for herself and say she wants to be there but the PR forms ask for proof. Do you think they would accept letter from daughter saying she will be turning 18 shortly and wants to go with us while stating she has had no contact with real dad for over 10 years??
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 5:04 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

This is difficult and not something I can answer. As immigration have no idea of each families circumstances they can only ask for things on paper, sworn in court or to a solicitor. You may for example, kept your daughter from her father. You are not telling her where her father is etc etc. If they are insisting on this letter it is best to try and get it. Try and contact her father again and offer to go to a solicitor with him, set a date or make the appointment and pay for the letter to be done and notorised.
I asked my daughters father as I knew we had to do it, I actually draughed the letter as he did not know what to write, and said I would pay the solicitors fee which was £20. He then took the letter I had typed out, signed it infront of the solicitor, and sent it to me.

I would have thought if your daughter could have gone to a court to ask for permission under the circumstances they could provide necessary paperwork, especially as she is so close to 18, and has not had any contact with father for so long.




I understand what your saying that if immigration ask she can speak up for herself and say she wants to be there but the PR forms ask for proof. Do you think they would accept letter from daughter saying she will be turning 18 shortly and wants to go with us while stating she has had no contact with real dad for over 10 years?? [/QUOTE]
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:42 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by jempee
Have spoke to the family court and they said all they could advise is to fill in an application for a residence order which could take awhile. I was hoping that they would say that as she was over 16 i could take her out of the country without his permission but obviously not. Oh well will see if this letter arrives from ex.. thanks for the help, much appreciated.

With respect, it's not a good idea to get advice on complex legal issues by "speaking to the family court".


You need to speak to a solicitor who is a specialist in family law.



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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:45 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by jempee
We have been quoted 6-8 months for application as we have been accepted on PNP program, but this problem is holding us up. As i have replied to other poster i thought if she was over 16 there would be no problem but im obviously wrong. thanks for help and advice.

Maybe just apply for the visa and if CIC don't grant it until she's 18 (and there's no more need to even *discuss* the issue) then is that a problem?

Of course you should try to set things down clearly in a covering letter and how they don't just refuse it. Using a good Canadian immigration consultant or lawyer should help.

Whatever you do, make sure the validity of your PNP certificate doesn't expire before you apply for your visa, otherwise you could end up back at square one.

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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:48 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by JAJ
With respect, it's not a good idea to get advice on complex legal issues by "speaking to the family court".


You need to speak to a solicitor who is a specialist in family law.



Jeremy
Why not? a family court has the same powers as the regular judicial system but it is focused on family matters. You do need to see a specialist family lawyer but he will go through the family court.

I got access to see my son via the family court, i later got custody through the family court.

Are you confusing the family court with the mediation services like CAFCAS ?
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by gooding
This is difficult and not something I can answer. As immigration have no idea of each families circumstances they can only ask for things on paper, sworn in court or to a solicitor. You may for example, kept your daughter from her father. You are not telling her where her father is etc etc. If they are insisting on this letter it is best to try and get it. Try and contact her father again and offer to go to a solicitor with him, set a date or make the appointment and pay for the letter to be done and notorised.
I asked my daughters father as I knew we had to do it, I actually draughed the letter as he did not know what to write, and said I would pay the solicitors fee which was £20. He then took the letter I had typed out, signed it infront of the solicitor, and sent it to me.

I would have thought if your daughter could have gone to a court to ask for permission under the circumstances they could provide necessary paperwork, especially as she is so close to 18, and has not had any contact with father for so long.






I understand what your saying that if immigration ask she can speak up for herself and say she wants to be there but the PR forms ask for proof. Do you think they would accept letter from daughter saying she will be turning 18 shortly and wants to go with us while stating she has had no contact with real dad for over 10 years??
[/QUOTE]

Hi thanks for advice. I cant actually speak to ex first hand i am going through ex sister in law. probably so i dont get to know his address or something like that!!! In past years when i have 'tracked' him down he has moved pretty sharpish!! I think i will take your advice though and suggest i write a letter that he can then take to a soliciter and i will pay for that. He is at the end of the country so i would be unable to do this in person anyway. Thanks for all your advice.
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:52 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by andy_sheila
Why not? a family court has the same powers as the regular judicial system but it is focused on family matters. You do need to see a specialist family lawyer but he will go through the family court.

I got access to see my son via the family court, i later got custody through the family court.

Are you confusing the family court with the mediation services like CAFCAS ?

What I meant was that if you "speak to someone at the family court" you are likely going to get some very generic points from a person (at the front desk) who is not necessarily fully trained in the finer points of the law and hasn't got the full set of facts to hand.

In general, asking anything other than the simplest questions to public enquiry lines often results in answers that are incomplete, misinterpreted or just plain wrong.

UK child custody law as it relates to 16 and 17 year olds is definitely in the "not simple" category. Hence the need for specific advice from an experienced professional.



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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by JAJ
What I meant was that if you "speak to someone at the family court" you are likely going to get some very generic points from a person (at the front desk) who is not necessarily fully trained in the finer points of the law and hasn't got the full set of facts to hand.

In general, asking anything other than the simplest questions to public enquiry lines often results in answers that are incomplete, misinterpreted or just plain wrong.

UK child custody law as it relates to 16 and 17 year olds is definitely in the "not simple" category. Hence the need for specific advice from an experienced professional.



Jeremy
I see what you mean but i don't think you could go to the court and just ask for advice.
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by JAJ
Maybe just apply for the visa and if CIC don't grant it until she's 18 (and there's no more need to even *discuss* the issue) then is that a problem?

Of course you should try to set things down clearly in a covering letter and how they don't just refuse it. Using a good Canadian immigration consultant or lawyer should help.

Whatever you do, make sure the validity of your PNP certificate doesn't expire before you apply for your visa, otherwise you could end up back at square one.

Jeremy
Hi thanks for your reply. I will if need be put a covering letter in with the CIC forms but will hopefully be able to resolve issue if i pay for the soliciter so ex has no expense. (not that he doesnt owe me a few quid!! but lets not go there!) I had not thought about the PNP running out so thanks for that. Just trying to think of the best way around things.
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 6:58 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by andy_sheila
I see what you mean but i don't think you could go to the court and just ask for advice.

Which is exactly what I was pointing out to the original poster. For professional legal advice, see a good solicitor and work from there.



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Old Oct 30th 2005, 7:14 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by jempee
Hi thanks for your reply. I will if need be put a covering letter in with the CIC forms but will hopefully be able to resolve issue if i pay for the soliciter so ex has no expense. (not that he doesnt owe me a few quid!! but lets not go there!) I had not thought about the PNP running out so thanks for that. Just trying to think of the best way around things.
I don't suppose you are in West yorkshire? i could recommend a fantastic family law specialist solicitor if you are.
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Old Oct 30th 2005, 7:19 am
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Default Re: Permission to take child out of country problem

Originally Posted by andy_sheila
I don't suppose you are in West yorkshire? i could recommend a fantastic family law specialist solicitor if you are.
No afraid not in kent, hopefully ex will put child first! hey i can live in hope!
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