Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada > Immigration & Citizenship (Canada)
Reload this Page >

One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

Old Mar 31st 2004, 7:56 am
  #46  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 182
Alfaris is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

Originally posted by Ashok
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravi says:I did follow the whole thread. That point came as a side note from somebody. That was not the main discussion/goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note it is not >>somebody<<, but it was Mr Alfaris him self (originator of this thread) suggesting great danger to Canada's
security and poly gamy as the answer.
Indeed, I have suggested it. However, I was merely trying to show that polygamy is not necessarily evil and bad like most of us imagine it to be.

The real problem lies in the fact that almost everyone in our society is biased against polygamy, either from our upbringing or from what the media tells us about it. The truth is that none of us actually have a clear picture of what it might be like to love and commit to more than one partner, and how exactly such a relationship may or may not work out.

There are both Canadians and non-Canadians that want to exist in a polygamous relationship. There are such people in every country of the world. Unfortunately, often they are denied most basic rights and suffer bigotry and discrimination from the rest of us, simply because we are so biased against them.
Regarding Pandit Ravi Shanker >>>>

Please note I find no reference to Pandit Ravishankar Ist wife Sukanya and daughter Anoushka + 2nd wife Sue Jones and daughter Norah Jones living together as one happy nuclear polygamist family.

Sue Jones & Ravi Shanker were no more toghether , when Norah was just 4 or 5 year old kid ??. I wonder what sort of gains accrued to Noarah ( as enumerated in this thread).

That is what I want to emphasize. To my best of knowledge , howsoever limited it may be, I have not seen happy go lucky polygamous family in my lifespan >>> till date!!!. History has shown no happy ending to all those who practised it either.
I am aware that in some countries of the world, polygamists suffered imprisonment and execution at the hands of bigoted European and communist police. If these are the unhappy endings that you refer to, then they were not really their fault, were they? It is simply more guilt to the rest of us.

I understand you have not seen a happy polygamous family. However, I am sure that you have seen hundreds, nay, thousands of unhappy monogamous families. Neither of these observations really proves that one or the other is better. We simply do not have a large number of polygamous families that we can observe and judge by.
All though I am no legal expert,how ever I do agree , barring few, most other arguements, from Alfaris, sounds convincing. It sounds a rich polygamist can penetrate current immigration system of Canada.
A rich anybody can penetrate the immigration system. All you need is $600,000 to put in Canada's coffers, and you are through under the Investor class. I am talking about regular people who need to be reunited with their loved ones, but are not allowed to because of a hypocritical clause in our immigration policy.
But I do wonder, I think when the big old (polygamist) dies, he leaves quite a big mess, not a legacy. Ofsprings fight for the property , not for the noble prize.
This is speculation. Like I said, we don't really know much about polygamy, and all we can do is draw up conjectures as to how it may be. Estate sibling fights are a common occurrence in many monogamous families as well.
Good luck to polygamists and their efforts to gain IMMIGRATION CANADA.
I also wish good luck to polygamists in their struggle to obtain the same rights to be with the people they love that the rest of us enjoy. I hope more of us can see their suffering, and be willing to grant them the privilege to be with their loved ones.

Life is too short.
Why spend it trying to make other people suffer?

Alfaris
Alfaris is offline  
Old Mar 31st 2004, 2:25 pm
  #47  
Fat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

I second a point Ashok that he has not yet seen an happy family in
polygamous families.

I do not know about Arab families and they are more tolerant to
polygamous, and might have different behaviors, but from my own experience.

One of my very dear friends, father has more then one wife, and I can
tell you that has left a lot of bitterness and scars on his personality.

He is very bitter, and sensitive person, and is very difficult for
peoples to accept his sudden out bursts, he is highly capable and
extremely nice and trustworthy person but due this personality having
very difficult in maintain long term relationship.

These all problem personality is due to polygamous background of his
father (otherwise very nice and highly respected person).





Ashok wrote:
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > ----
    > Ravi says:I did follow the whole thread. That point came as a side
    > note from somebody. That was not the main discussion/goal.
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > -----------
    > Please note it is not >>somebody<<, but it was Mr Alfaris
    > him self (originator of this thread) suggesting great danger to Canada's
    >
    > security and poly gamy as the answer.
    >
    > Regarding Pandit Ravi Shanker
    >
    >
    > Please note I find no reference to Pandit Ravishankar Ist wife
    > Sukanya and daughter Anoushka + 2nd wife Sue Jones and daughter Norah
    > Jones living together as one happy nuclear polygamist family.
    >
    > Sue
    > Jones & Ravi Shanker were no more toghether , when Norah was just 4 or
    > 5 year old kid ??. I wonder what sort of gains accrued to Noarah ( as
    > enumerated in this thread).
    >
    > That is what I want to emphasize. To my
    > best of knowledge , howsoever limited it may be, I have not seen happy
    > go lucky polygamous family in my lifespan >>> till date!!!. History has
    > shown no happy ending to all those who practised it either.
    >
    > All though
    > I am no legal expert,how ever I do agree , barring few, most other
    > arguements, from Alfaris, sounds convincing. It sounds a rich polygamist
    > can penetrate current immigration system of Canada.
    >
    > But I do wonder, I
    > think when the big old (polygamist) dies, he leaves quite a big mess,
    > not a legacy. Ofsprings fight for the property , not for the noble
    > prize.
    >
    > Good luck to polygamists and their efforts to gain IMMIGRATION
    > CANADA.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Originally posted by Ravi
    >
    >>"Ashok"
    >
    > <member18804@british_expats.com> wrote in message
    >
    >>news:1338942.-
    >
    > [email protected]"]news:[email protected]
    > [/url]
    >
    >>>1)Go through the complete thread, One of the benefits of
    >
    > polygamy is
    >
    >>> projected to be safe gaurding of geographical
    >
    > interests of Canada
    >
    >>> against a perceived Russian threat in
    >
    > the back drop of an assumed
    >
    >>> US weakening.
    >>I did
    >
    > follow the whole thread. That point came as a side note from somebody.
    >
    > That was not the main discussion/goal.
    >
    >>>2)I am not comparing
    >
    > polygamy with slavery, I am
    >
    >>> saying as one practice is
    >
    > gone, other is on its way of getting
    >
    >>> extinct.
    >>I
    >
    > don't see polygamy is getting extinct.... not in reality.
    >
    >>>3)
    >
    > I do recognise it (polygamy) has shown itself in its
    >
    > newer variants in WEST, I know it will also become extinct, perhaps
    >
    >
    >>> not in my lifetime.
    >>You wish...
    >>>4)I
    >
    > really do not find sucessfull citizens,
    >
    >>> claiming with
    >
    > great pride,that they come from such and such
    >
    >>> polygamist
    >
    > family.What ever amount of time I or you spend googling.
    >
    >>As
    >
    > modern society look down at polygamy, you definitely won't see people
    >
    > claiming it publicly/proudly. Like singer Norah Jones... few people knew
    >
    >
    >>that she was daughter of late Ravi Shanker...
    >>>5)I respect
    >
    > Canadian law, at least it allows people to practise
    >
    > their religious beliefs. I find no respect for those countries who
    >
    >
    >>> pay sack full of US $ without stamping Passport and and do
    >
    > not
    >
    >>> want to grant citizenship nor allow immigration but
    >
    > want high
    >
    >>> skilled technocrats from backdoor. In the
    >
    > bargain if Polygamy in
    >
    >>> its earlier form,is not allowed ,
    >
    > i feel very comfortable.
    >
    >>???? :>
    >>>6)Last
    >> 15 years I have been quite close to US culture, I find all
    >
    >
    >>> sucessfull VP's and presidents of the companies were and
    >
    > are
    >
    >>> monogamists and they really love humanity. some of
    >
    > them adopted
    >
    >>> illegal childs of the migrant maid servents
    >
    > made pregnent by
    >
    >>> illegal male migrants!! Did not marry
    >
    > the maid.
    >
    >>How can you come to any general conclusion based on
    >
    > some limited personal
    >
    >>experience? Or is this any way related to
    >
    > current topic?
    >
    >>>7) I am fully
    >>> aware of western
    >
    > culture, these sucessfull (as I am talking about
    >
    >>> above ),
    >
    > are those who are retired or on the verge and they do
    >
    > regret, in their run for higher productivity and technological
    >
    >> gains, many of them failed giving a direction to young ones.
    >
    > I
    >
    >>> know it will take decades and decades for a turn
    >
    > around.
    >
    >>???? :>
    >>>6)
    >>> I know how
    >
    > discussion started and in my very first post, I
    >
    > requested, why do we want to resurrect some thing , which is fading
    >
    >
    >>> away.
    >>If you didn't reply then it would fade itself
    >
    > as well.
    >
    >>>7) We definitely have to talk a lot about what is
    >
    > now
    >
    >>> surfacing and threatening human development. I
    >
    > appreciate Alfaris
    >
    >>> for correlating differrent forms of
    >
    > polygamy. But definitely
    >
    >>> propose to leave the oldest
    >
    > form , behind and start tackling the
    >
    >>> new variants.
    >
    >>That's what the discussion is for...
 
Old Apr 1st 2004, 3:16 am
  #48  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 182
Alfaris is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

Like I said, we can't use one or two cases to judge ALL polygamous families. I am certain that the polygamous families that are happy, do not go around advertising the fact. They face too much scrutiny and apprehension from the rest of the society.

I can point to one, ten, hundred, thousand monogamous families that are a bad and sick relationship. However, it does not mean that I can use them to prove that monogamy is a bad system. Just like your 1 case does not prove that polygamy is bad.

Alfaris

Originally posted by Fat
I second a point Ashok that he has not yet seen an happy family in
polygamous families.

I do not know about Arab families and they are more tolerant to
polygamous, and might have different behaviors, but from my own experience.

One of my very dear friends, father has more then one wife, and I can
tell you that has left a lot of bitterness and scars on his personality.

He is very bitter, and sensitive person, and is very difficult for
peoples to accept his sudden out bursts, he is highly capable and
extremely nice and trustworthy person but due this personality having
very difficult in maintain long term relationship.

These all problem personality is due to polygamous background of his
father (otherwise very nice and highly respected person).
Alfaris is offline  
Old Apr 1st 2004, 4:51 am
  #49  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 476
Ibraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to allIbraheem is a name known to all
Default Re: One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

Hello,
I want only to clarify one point regarding islam and polygamy because some seems to misunderstand the idea.
1- Islam does not support polygamy neither consider it preferable, on the countrary the prefered case is mongamy as mentioned in Quran, but islam only allows polygamy among other things regarding marriage and sexual relations, l (ike divorce) although again it is not preferable, it seems that islam is very tolerant and flexible regarding rules that organize marriage and allow everything but the aim is clear to make a succeful relationship, so you have alot of options to make this work.
2- I was born and raised in 2 islamic soceity and very rarely I met polygamy (Statistics says its about 1%), so it is clearly not an islamic practice rather than an option.
3- Many believe it's related to wealth and I can assure you this is rarely the case, among the few cases I saw non was related to wealth man marry many women , 2 of the cases I saw was related to infertility and one was the wife was much older than the husband that when he was in his 40s she was 60 so they both agreed on a new wife rather than a divorce, and the last one I saw was a humanitarian case the wife accepted her husband to marry the new wife to rescue her from a painful situation, of course there are some cases where wealth is involved but even if so this is not inequality because all parties are happy and many monogamous relations are wealth related (rich man marry beautiful girl dont tell me this does not happen!).
4- The last point I want to mention , is that up to now, sexual relations before marriage are not practiced in the grand majority of islamic soceities, this will create a different situation that people in the west can imagine or understand.
Ibraheem is offline  
Old Apr 1st 2004, 3:42 pm
  #50  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 262
Ashok is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: One man, two wives immigration. Your thoughts?

Please note:
1) No one in this thread, linked polygamy with Islam.
2) I am fully aware Islam does not promote polygamy. It rather tolerates it. It was remarked, in one of my posts. Thanks for reconfirming it.
3)My experiences are from polygamous families, of any religion or faith.
4) One of them,one wife lives in our apartment complex(non muslim)having two wives has made his life total wreck. He loves both wives but wives can not tolerate each other. All three and kids, all are in pain. Currently no one is having any clue , as to what next. Lust part is over. Real life needs and children future has killed all glamour and love.

I still believe it is painfull experience in the long run.
Man is driven by pure lust not love when he is establishing 2nd or 3rd......... extra marital or legally approved relations. I believe such persons need heavy dose counselling.

There maybe some godly figure, who can love a number of persons at the same time, without creating jealosy amongst them. I have not seen or met any one like that. Will like to see some one some day. Till than good bye.

Alfaris >>

I appreciate your efforts to bring in a thought provoking subject. I appreciate your earlier thread on IMMIGRATION BACKLOGS, that was equally timely. My good wishes to genuine polygamers.



Originally posted by Ibraheem
Hello,
I want only to clarify one point regarding islam and polygamy because some seems to misunderstand the idea.
1- Islam does not support polygamy neither consider it preferable, on the countrary the prefered case is mongamy as mentioned in Quran, but islam only allows polygamy among other things regarding marriage and sexual relations, l (ike divorce) although again it is not preferable, it seems that islam is very tolerant and flexible regarding rules that organize marriage and allow everything but the aim is clear to make a succeful relationship, so you have alot of options to make this work.
2- I was born and raised in 2 islamic soceity and very rarely I met polygamy (Statistics says its about 1%), so it is clearly not an islamic practice rather than an option.
3- Many believe it's related to wealth and I can assure you this is rarely the case, among the few cases I saw non was related to wealth man marry many women , 2 of the cases I saw was related to infertility and one was the wife was much older than the husband that when he was in his 40s she was 60 so they both agreed on a new wife rather than a divorce, and the last one I saw was a humanitarian case the wife accepted her husband to marry the new wife to rescue her from a painful situation, of course there are some cases where wealth is involved but even if so this is not inequality because all parties are happy and many monogamous relations are wealth related (rich man marry beautiful girl dont tell me this does not happen!).
4- The last point I want to mention , is that up to now, sexual relations before marriage are not practiced in the grand majority of islamic soceities, this will create a different situation that people in the west can imagine or understand.
Ashok is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.