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Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Old Jun 28th 2011, 11:16 pm
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Default Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

In a nutshell....

Sent to Quebec on Intra-Company transfer, late 2007.
Applied for PR Federally (lawyer advised chances of QC Nomination slim).
As part of that,we had to show we intended to live elsewhere (Ontario).
Put house up for sale, and got letter from company agreeing that I could move out of QC.
All sent to CIC... nothing hidden, all straightforward and honest.
Confirmation of PR eventually given... yahoo!....
However, we still haven't sold our QC house....
Lawyer advised than when we did the "flag pole" entry to take all docs, including contract with Estate Agent, letter from Company etc., and just say we were in process of selling, and would advise when house sold and move completed.
So... we get to the Border (Ontario). The Immigration Agent seemed really decent.
He looked at the forms and asked if we already lived in Canada... I said yes. He asked for our address, and I gave it to him, then went on to explain about the house still not being sold etc. and offered to show him the contract etc.
He said it didn't matter... he could not put in the system a QC address for a Federal PR, it wouldn't process!
I was a bit shell shocked.... I lamely asked if I could give him a friend's Ontario address and he said we should be living there. OMG.
So, I asked what we needed to do.... he said try and sort matters out, and try again!
We have a few months before our PR Visa expires... but the chances of selling in that time are slim... the market is completely dead around here.
I sent an urgent email to the lawyer, who now advises that we should sign a lease in Ontario.... pity they never mentioned that before!
Plus, where do they think I'm going to get the money to pay a mortgage and rent a house???

To say we're gutted is an understatement.... does anyone have any ideas of what we can do???
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Old Jun 29th 2011, 12:43 am
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

first thing that pops into my mind... rent the quebec house out to help you to finance the one in Ontario?
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Old Jun 29th 2011, 12:57 am
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

I am sure you could have said we dont have a permament address yet. You could have then provided an address at a later date.

I take it they did not activate your PR? Did you receive the COPR document? Did they just send you away?

I agree that renting might be next option.
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Old Jun 29th 2011, 12:59 am
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by manitobain
first thing that pops into my mind... rent the quebec house out to help you to finance the one in Ontario?
Thanks.... that has crossed our minds before. Trouble is the QC rental laws are heavily in favour of the renter.... and we've heard some horror stories about people who rented their houses, sold, and tenants who didn't want to leave, so it scared us off doing that. But, we might not have any choice....
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Old Jun 29th 2011, 1:31 am
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by JB0591
I am sure you could have said we dont have a permament address yet. You could have then provided an address at a later date.

I take it they did not activate your PR? Did you receive the COPR document? Did they just send you away?

I agree that renting might be next option.
Thanks JB.... I couldn't really say we didn't have an address, he asked where we lived, and as we've been here 4 years (nearly) I couldn't really say otherwise. They didn't activate PR... we came in on our TWP. We had the COPR with us. The renting thing looks like it's going to be the only option, short of giving up and going back to the UK.
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Old Jun 29th 2011, 2:07 am
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

The border agent may have acted illegally in refusing to allow you to land. In fact, you DO NOT have to give an address for PR Card at time of landing.

And they absolutely should accept address of friend, etc.

If the border guard acted illegally, find another border post and do the landing process again. You may have been unlucky in the official you came across.

Talk to your lawyer.

And by the way, if your house is on the market with no interest, it's probably overpriced - reduce the price to the market level if you want to sell.

Last edited by JAJ; Jun 29th 2011 at 2:11 am.
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Old Jun 29th 2011, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by JAJ
The border agent may have acted illegally in refusing to allow you to land. In fact, you DO NOT have to give an address for PR Card at time of landing.

And they absolutely should accept address of friend, etc.

If the border guard acted illegally, find another border post and do the landing process again. You may have been unlucky in the official you came across.

Talk to your lawyer.

And by the way, if your house is on the market with no interest, it's probably overpriced - reduce the price to the market level if you want to sell.
Thanks for the reply JAJ.

I wasn't asked for an address for the PR card, I was asked where I lived (he knew we were in Canada on TWP's) so I just told him.

I was surprised the lawyer didn't consider this.... maybe with the rule changes in April the logging software has changed too. He did say the computer simply wouldn't accept a QC address for a Federal application.

Regards the house, I brought up the asking price with the Agent when we renewed the contract. He was adamant it was fair... I'm sure if he thought we should ask for less he would have said so... he doesn't get paid until it's sold! The truth is very little is selling around here.... people seem to prefer buying plots and building.

Any way, nothing back from the lawyer yet, but it seems the only sure way is to try and rent this place out, and rent somewhere for us.

What a b***er.
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Old Jun 30th 2011, 11:34 pm
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by geedee
Thanks for the reply JAJ.

I wasn't asked for an address for the PR card, I was asked where I lived (he knew we were in Canada on TWP's) so I just told him.

I was surprised the lawyer didn't consider this.... maybe with the rule changes in April the logging software has changed too. He did say the computer simply wouldn't accept a QC address for a Federal application.

Regards the house, I brought up the asking price with the Agent when we renewed the contract. He was adamant it was fair... I'm sure if he thought we should ask for less he would have said so... he doesn't get paid until it's sold! The truth is very little is selling around here.... people seem to prefer buying plots and building.

Any way, nothing back from the lawyer yet, but it seems the only sure way is to try and rent this place out, and rent somewhere for us.
1. Nothing is ever sure, but if the border guard acted illegally (as appears to have been the case), you should simply try again at a different frontier post (and not one in Quebec). The address they ask for is for the PR Card and you do NOT have to supply this when you land. And you can use a friend's address in Ontario.


2. It doesn't matter what your Agent says/thinks, if your house isn't selling then the price is too high. In many areas, people do want to buy/build new so your house has to be priced at a level to persuade someone to buy yours instead.

Last edited by JAJ; Jun 30th 2011 at 11:37 pm.
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Old Jun 30th 2011, 11:47 pm
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

By the way, have you thought of asking your lawyer to be present when you do your landing (or at least, contactable) if you keep having problems? Lawyer can't change the law, but a properly trained/experienced lawyer can help a lot to ensure it is applied correctly.
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Old Jun 30th 2011, 11:48 pm
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by geedee
I was surprised the lawyer didn't consider this.... maybe with the rule changes in April the logging software has changed too. He did say the computer simply wouldn't accept a QC address for a Federal application.
When the immigration office said this he was probably refering to the following:

A20(2) Provincial selection criteria

Foreign nationals seeking to become permanent residents who intend to reside in a province that has sole responsibility for the selection of foreign nationals under a federal-provincial agreement pursuant to A9(1) must also establish that they hold a document issued by the province indicating that the competent authority of the province is of the opinion that the foreign national complies with the province’s selection criteria.


If he put in a QC address then they would have needed to see the Quebec selection certification. Your lawyer should have known this. Although the immigration officer should have known you dont need to provide an address.
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Old Jun 30th 2011, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by JB0591
When the immigration office said this he was probably refering to the following:

A20(2) Provincial selection criteria

Foreign nationals seeking to become permanent residents who intend to reside in a province that has sole responsibility for the selection of foreign nationals under a federal-provincial agreement pursuant to A9(1) must also establish that they hold a document issued by the province indicating that the competent authority of the province is of the opinion that the foreign national complies with the province’s selection criteria.


If he put in a QC address then they would have needed to see the Quebec selection certification. Your lawyer should have known this.
But someone temporarily in Quebec who does not intend to remain in the province does not come within these provisions. In fact, such a person is ineligible to migrate under Quebec provisions.

The border guard acted illegally in refusing to accept an Ontario address, and/or allowing them land without providing an address (which many people do).
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Old Jun 30th 2011, 11:59 pm
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Default Re: Oh dear.... urgent advice appreciated!

Originally Posted by JAJ
But someone temporarily in Quebec who does not intend to remain in the province does not come within these provisions. In fact, such a person is ineligible to migrate under Quebec provisions.

The border guard acted illegally in refusing to accept an Ontario address, and/or allowing them land without providing an address (which many people do).
I know. I was trying to explain the comment of why the computer would not accept a QC address. I agree with you that he should have allowed either no address or ON address.
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