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Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Old Jun 2nd 2008, 8:40 pm
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Thumbs down Occupations under pressure with good reason!

We applied for PR via the SW (full) application - AOR September 2006 with 83 points.
My wife is a Pharmacist by trade. Until the end of last year we both worked for a pharmaceutical company here in the UK..We both took a well paid voluntary redundancy package and my wife has started doing locum pharmacist roles.

We stumbled across this forum a few months ago now and have been digesting all the info and started to get worried with all the rumours about potential changes to the immigration system, backlogs, etc.
We were hoping to get our update letter sometime around the end of the year which does fit with some of the Feb 2006 applicants getting their letters now..Obviously there are so many variables and with the CEC coming on line later in the year we just don't know how that will impact our timeline.

So we started being more proactive in trying to find work in Canada and were excited as Pharmacists are on the occupations under pressure list for many of the provinces (We want to move to Ontario by the way as we have family there). So we started to look into what would be required for my wife to transfer her skills over to Canada and this is where the craziness begins.

There are initial exams to be taken in London (UK) first which is fair enough but then there are further exams that need to be completed before she can be licensed as a pharmacist which can only be taken AFTER she has a landed status.
So basically, unless we are missing something fundamental here then, unless anyone is going to offer her a job before she has completed all the exams and become licensed then there is no way that a pharmacist can use their international qualification / experience to help in finding arranged employment to use to help their SW application.
We have sent an e mail to the Ontario College of Pharmacists to validate this understanding but how daft is the fact that, under the current systems in place, you cannot use an international pharmacist qualification to help you find work / speed up your application in a country that is desperately short of pharmacists in nearly all provinces...:curse:
I just wanted to share this insanity as we were both really getting our hopes up until we discovered that you need to be landed to take the final exams and get licensed and we can't see how any employer would make a job offer without that so we are back to square one.
It really isn't surprising therefore that the Pharmacist occupation is under pressure across the board.
We would love to hear from any Internationally qualified Pharmacists working in Canada to understand if they had the same dilemma.
Anyway, thats my moan over with now..
Thanks for listening
Tim
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 12:42 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

All I can say is that I sympathise. There's a real mismatch between the federal and provincial levels. Or, to be more precise, the professional organisations at provincial level seem to operate a real "closed shop" attitude – if you didn't get your qualifications in Canada, your qualifications count for nothing.

I realise that this is only partially the case overall, but the number of cases I read about here and elsewhere of people being told they effectively have to retrain from scratch is nonetheless dispiriting. I can well understand the standards for X profession in Canada being slightly different, and thus professionals needing to sit courses and pass exams to comprehend the differences, but it's not in the country's best interests to allow people in and not allow them to work. The stories of if you want expert medical care in a hurry, you'd better talk to a taxi driver haven't appeared out of thin air.

I'm fortunate to be in a profession (journalism) where academic qualifications are not absolutely essential to practicing my trade, although I have a Masters' degree in the subject. While my practical experience in the UK won't get me very far, it at least will show potential employers I'm worthy of interest.

Once again, my sympathies to you and your wife.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 1:00 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Originally Posted by edsask
All I can say is that I sympathise. There's a real mismatch between the federal and provincial levels. Or, to be more precise, the professional organisations at provincial level seem to operate a real "closed shop" attitude – if you didn't get your qualifications in Canada, your qualifications count for nothing.

Many of the so called "Professional Organisations" are more protectionist than trade unions. Controlling the supply of qualified people keeps the salaries up.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 1:09 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Originally Posted by edsask
All I can say is that I sympathise. There's a real mismatch between the federal and provincial levels. Or, to be more precise, the professional organisations at provincial level seem to operate a real "closed shop" attitude – if you didn't get your qualifications in Canada, your qualifications count for nothing.

I realise that this is only partially the case overall, but the number of cases I read about here and elsewhere of people being told they effectively have to retrain from scratch is nonetheless dispiriting. I can well understand the standards for X profession in Canada being slightly different, and thus professionals needing to sit courses and pass exams to comprehend the differences, but it's not in the country's best interests to allow people in and not allow them to work. The stories of if you want expert medical care in a hurry, you'd better talk to a taxi driver haven't appeared out of thin air.

I'm fortunate to be in a profession (journalism) where academic qualifications are not absolutely essential to practicing my trade, although I have a Masters' degree in the subject. While my practical experience in the UK won't get me very far, it at least will show potential employers I'm worthy of interest.

Once again, my sympathies to you and your wife.
Thanks edsask..I didn't want to write a negative thread but it is just so frustrating that there is this disconnect..What is the point of having Pharmacists on the occupations under pressure list, they can't get into / work in Canada any quicker than if they just wait for the SW application to hopefully go through without arranged employment and we all know how long that is taking.
As you say, of course some level of retraining would be expected and it would be a worry if it was not but they really are shooting themselves in the foot with this one..
Thanks for understanding..
Cheers
Tim
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 1:34 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Originally Posted by flashman
Many of the so called "Professional Organisations" are more protectionist than trade unions. Controlling the supply of qualified people keeps the salaries up.
Ditto here. One of the worst are Registered Nurses Associations/Colleges - they are protecting their salaries at the expense of health care, at times when shortage of nurses is critical. Similar, but not as bad are other health professions associations.

CIC and federal/Provincial governments have no power to change ways those associations control labor market in their professions.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:24 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
CIC and federal/Provincial governments have no power to change ways those associations control labor market in their professions.
If the governments had any guts they would approve other accreditation bodies.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:24 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

At least you only have exams OP, my OH had 2yrs dental school and 90k CAD fees (excl. living costs and loss of earnings) for the privilege -and that was at the cheapest school Only the eligibility exam to enable you to apply to universities could be done without PR status, for the rest you must be PR/citizen. And dentists are on the BC occupations under pressure list...

I assume jobs on these lists can be done by North American-schooled people without the need for PR/exams - so that's why they're there. It is possible for foreigners to work in those professions without PR, but not for all.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:26 am
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U,K is one of the best countries to live in and has the best economic among european countries. so why are so many of you guys applying to immigrate to Canada?
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:40 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Hi Biiiiink - I haven't gone in to all the details but the best case is only exams, and like you state, only one of the qualifying exams can actually be done outside of Canada and they are only run 6 monthly, the other 2 require a landed status.
Also, unlike other provinces, Ontario requires approx 1 year of study (although this is not required in any other province - sods law) although there is some scope to make a case as to why that is not required and yes, there are also substantial fees involved.
But that does sound even worse for your OH but I am not trying to compete just point out a whole situation that seems to contradict itself in terms of the highly skilled and trained professionals that Canada needs but there being the huge disconnect with the hoops that the accrediting bodies for those professions require these professionals to jump through.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:45 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Originally Posted by Tim Steer
I didn't want to write a negative thread but it is just so frustrating that there is this disconnect.
Of course you want to write a negative thread. Or, if you don't want to write one, you should want to write one, in my opinion. The truth is the truth. This is one of the downsides of Canada. In my estimation, we're more helpful to others when we tell them the way things are.

If we want to get into rose coloured specs territory, might I suggest you consider Zimbabwe? Fantastic climate.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:45 am
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Default Re: a personal question

Originally Posted by timu12
U,K is one of the best countries to live in and has the best economic among european countries. so why are so many of you guys applying to immigrate to Canada?
timu12 - The quick reply is that we have lived in England all of our lives but we have family in Canada and have visited there many times. We like the climate, the people, the countryside. I know it is hard to comment on a country that you haven't lived in for long so we possibly do have a rose tinted view of Canada but with the substantial increase in crime in the UK amongst many other things, we have made the decision that we want to live in Canada.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 2:55 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

OK Judy you got me
Maybe what I mean is that I don't just want to b***h and moan in a thread but wanted to see if anyone else like Biiiinks OH for example were in a similar situation.
Is it wishful thinking that maybe some of the changes going through if (when) C-50 passes will maybe start looking at some of these issues around Professional skilled workers whose training and experience is not being recognised by the respective Canadian accrediting / licensing bodies..
See I can be optimistic aswell

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Of course you want to write a negative thread. Or, if you don't want to write one, you should want to write one, in my opinion. The truth is the truth. This is one of the downsides of Canada. In my estimation, we're more helpful to others when we tell them the way things are.

If we want to get into rose coloured specs territory, might I suggest you consider Zimbabwe? Fantastic climate.
x
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 3:05 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Originally Posted by Tim Steer
OK Judy you got me
Maybe what I mean is that I don't just want to b***h and moan in a thread but wanted to see if anyone else like Biiiinks OH for example were in a similar situation.
Is it wishful thinking that maybe some of the changes going through if (when) C-50 passes will maybe start looking at some of these issues around Professional skilled workers whose training and experience is not being recognised by the respective Canadian accrediting / licensing bodies..
See I can be optimistic aswell
What's your pull for Canada? For us the wage difference will be worth the initial outlay. We could have gone to Oz and had OH start working straight away but it really didn't appeal to me as a place to live for all the usual reasons. I said to OH okay then, I'll consider it if we can go and have a look first and he refused saying the flights were too much, he'd have to take too much time off work... that proved my concerns right

I don't know anything about pharmacy but I don't think it will change anytime soon for dentistry - apart from severe shortages up north and apparently BC, the place is awash with them. It costs a lot to put yourself through school and they won't have foreigners with "free" degrees, shorter degrees coming and vying for jobs.

On the plus side, with a good UK degree you should be thankful the exams are in your native tongue and you'll be able to ace them. OH did first time, got into his first choice school (the only one he applied for actually, he didn't know how competitive the whole procedure was at the time!)... he later met people who'd been sitting these exams 2ce a year since they introduced them in 2000, still hoping to get in somewhere, still spending a fortune on exam fees and uni application fees, and still working in gas stations and fast food joints...

Last edited by Biiiiink; Jun 3rd 2008 at 3:13 am. Reason: typo
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 3:20 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

Hi Biiiiink,
Our pull for Canada - Well firstly my wifes sister, brother-in-law and their 2 children have lived in Ontario for over 10 years now so, as you can imagine, we have visited and stayed there many times and absolutely adore the country and the folk and the climate - in fact we actually delayed putting in our application because my wife wanted me to see how cold the winters were before we went for it, which I did (she had already experienced it previously).
Also, we have done well with our property and when (if) we sell up then we will hopefully be taking a nice chunk to Canada where we will be able to have a better quality of life.
My wife is the qualified pharmacist, I am a qualified chemist (not saying that I remember much of it) but we have both been working in the Pharmaceutical industry for over 10 years.
It is definitely an eye opener to hear that there are other health care professionals is the same boat as Pharmacists which I didn't know before.
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Old Jun 3rd 2008, 3:30 am
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Default Re: Occupations under pressure with good reason!

I actually very surprised that applicants in U.K need to also wait years to get into canada bcuz you guys are the ideal canadidate as skilled worker. no language barriers, gd education background, and lots networks in canada. i am not sayin conservative government has racial preference but a lots do expect they increase pr visa quota for european applicants.
i have lived in Canada for over 5 years now. i finished high school and univeristy here and almost complete 1 yr of work experience. I love canada and i think Canada should keep it arms's open to ppl around the world.
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