pwhy

After intense research I found out that the job market is doing real bad in Canada.
I wouldn't mind flipping burgers for a while but I would also like to work in my field (IT) at some point. Right now that looks like wishful thinking.
After a long waiting, receiving LP and being on cloud nine now I seem to be facing reality.
Canada remains a beautiful place but it's kind of hard living on the scenery.
Any thoughts on that ?

iancurtis

Yeah, similar thoughts here. We're actually thinking of looking at Australia as an alternative. The whole Canadian situation is beginning to look a little bleak isn't it.

levu

I'm hearing this from immigrants all the time.

1. There are too many IT people coming to Canada because from these boards it seems EVERYONE is in IT. The market is flooded.

2. Canada might be a huge landmass but its population is small and as such, most IT companies with offices there are focussed purely on sales...there isn't much development going on there.

3. Perhaps all you unemployed IT folk should get together and found the next microsoft?

4. Australia probably isn't anybetter...its immigrant program is easier to qualify for than Canada's and its population is even smaller....and there aren't any significant Australian IT companies...as least Canada has a couple.

5. Virtually every immigrant seems to go to Toronto so that market especially is swamped....you need to spread out more. I'm sure there are oppertunities in the more remote regions like NS or NF or Alberta.

6. Canada's economy is production based not service based. The real power house for Canada is its lumber, its oil, its car manufacturers....its all about using its natural resources...as an IT guy you don't fit in to great.....same goes for Australia - its all about mining there.

7. Germany has just announced a new skilled worker immigration program...you might want to think about that.....as a German immigrant, you'd have access to the whole of the European Union. Theres big IT worker shortages there.

pwhy

Yeah, there are IT jobs in Germany. In fact, that's where I work right now and I have the best job I've ever had so far in my life.

Money, company, coworkers, everything's just great. I bet they'll offer me a substantial raise when I tell them I'll leave.

The bad news is that I have this strong desire to move to a big country, for freedom, space, nature and stuff like that.

I'll have to decide whether I want to live in Europe and have a good job or live in a beautiful country and sleep in a mobile home(at least in the beginning).

Jimbo

I spent a very pleasant couple of years in Norway. So Norway / Sweden / Finland are
appealing right now. As an EU citizen, none of them are a problem either.

Except there's no jobs right now. ......

James.

    >Yeah, there are IT jobs in Germany. In fact, that's where I work right now and I
    >have the best job I've ever had so far in my life.
    >
    >Money, company, coworkers, everything's just great. I bet they'll offer me a
    >substantial raise when I tell them I'll leave.
    >
    >The bad news is that I have this strong desire to move to a big country, for
    >freedom, space, nature and stuff like that.
    >
    >I'll have to decide whether I want to live in Europe and have a good job or live in
    >a beautiful country and sleep in a mobile home(at least in the beginning).
    >
    >
    >
    >--
    >Posted via http://britishexpats.com

John Galt

    > Yeah, there are IT jobs in Germany. In fact, that's where I work right now and I
    > have the best job I've ever had so far in my life.
    >
    > The bad news is that I have this strong desire to move to a big country, for
    > freedom, space, nature and stuff like that.

I worked there for a while and didn't like the place that much. The salaries were
approx. 70% of US salaries. Being single, I was paying a 45% tax, so a bunch of ppl
could sit at home and live off my slave work for them. They have a labour law that
apparently makes the worker the king in the company. They force employment
contracts on you with almost a 3 months notification notice in case of termination,
so if you like to jump from one job to another, forget about it. I don't think they
can fire you without justifying it to the government somehow, Marx and Lenin must
be partying in their graves. Burocracy is hudge, the government keeps track of
where you live and even of your religion (cause they have this church tax, although
I think it is voluntary) I don't remember the total cost of getting a driver
license, I think it was more than US$ 1,000. Germans could not comprehend the fact
that there can be no national Id in the US. So if you like freedom and all this
stuff, you'd better stick to the US

Mit libertarianische gruessen (or however you say it) John Galt

Rus

Oil and Gas industry started down-sizing people.... After a year and a half, I have
to look for a new job even with BS and MS....

Canada is a beautiful country... but just for hiking and so...

"pwhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > After intense research I found out that the job market is doing real bad in Canada.
    > I wouldn't mind flipping burgers for a while but I would also like to work in my
    > field (IT) at some point. Right now that looks like wishful thinking. After a long
    > waiting, receiving LP and being on cloud nine now I seem to be facing reality.
    > Canada remains a beautiful place but it's kind of hard living on the scenery. Any
    > thoughts on that ?
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

The Wizzard

i agree. too many people in IT and IT is the hardest hit industryin this recession.

although it has to be sai dIT is a hugely broad term.

every industry you emntioned will have IT depertments etc, will need certain kinds of
It people, in managment, support, technical maintanance, networks etc. there are just
too many people after those posts, plus alot of people are in development,
programming etc those are hard to come by too. it was just unfortunate that there
were so many jobs and booms in the early 90's that everyone decided to become an IT
person, but it is now not that big, everywhere is consolidating and becoming smaller
and more cost effective.

i guess in the same way other industries have as well. you just have to pick the
right place for your job market, and be prepared to diversify.

you should be coming to Canada cos you want to live there , not work there.

and while your best career choice could be a high flying broker in London say, it's
not ever going to work in Nova Scotia or up north, no matter how much you try because
its not the kind of area for that job.

on an economic front though, Canada does seem to be recovering well compared to the
US its just the companies, hi tech types, taht are recovering are smaller and employ
less people than they did before.

Drew

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Greg Del Pilar

Hi!

    > We're actually thinking of looking at Australia as an alternative.
    >

I will advise you to read through the Australian immigration newsgroup and read
through all the IT-related postings (if you're in IT). Then you can make a more
informed decision.

Greg

Greg Del Pilar

Hi!

    > The bad news is that I have this strong desire to move to a big country, for
    > freedom, space, nature and stuff like that.
    >
    > I'll have to decide whether I want to live in Europe and have a good job or live in
    > a beautiful country and sleep in a mobile home(at least in the beginning).
    >

Yes, this is the major thing about deciding to immigrate: choice between job security
or a better WAY of life. Unfortunately, many IT immigrants seem to be immigrating to
Canada not just to have a "better way of life", but with the expectation to also keep
their current jobs. With the current status of the economy, I'm afraid this is not
possible for most It immigrants. Thus, would be IT immigrants, in my opinion, should
be prepared to make any/all necessary adjustments if they really want to come to
Canada at this time.

.,, just my 2-cents worth.

Greg

levu

I agree.

The right to live in Canada is a precious honour. Nobody ever said it should be easy. Quite the contrary I think it should be earnt. People who come here expecting to walk into a $130 000 a year kind of job are just not getting what its all about.

I think its only fair that immigrants go through a real tough time in their first few years, because that way we weed out the ones who are here for the love of Canada and those who are just here for the money.

All immigrants, throughout our nations history have went through hell to make it work, but work it did, and now we have this amazing country. I feel if we are going to continue accepting immigrants, then those immigrants should face the same test that their predecessors faced, that way we can insure we continue to get the type of people that no point system can detect. What we need isn't so much these people with a dozen degree's and 20 years experience, what we need are people who share the same tough mentality as those who built canada in the first place.

Paul

On 23 Apr 2002 13:00:23 GMT, pwhy <[email protected]> wrotf:

    >After intense research I found out that the job market is doing real bad in Canada.
    >I wouldn't mind flipping burgers for a while but I would also like to work in my
    >field (IT) at some point. Right now that looks like wishful thinking. After a long
    >waiting, receiving LP and being on cloud nine now I seem to be facing reality.
    >Canada remains a beautiful place but it's kind of hard living on the scenery. Any
    >thoughts on that ?
    >
    >
    >
    >--
    >Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Well, I know a couple of people who have had no trouble finding IT work who
immigrated here (Vancouver) in the last year, but maybe they were lucky. The economy
is just going into an upswing. I have several links to sites on my web site at
http://www.vancouver.hm

John P

Tuesday April 23, 10:10 am Eastern Time Press Release SOURCE: Canadian Federation of
Independent Business

Small business survey finds 265,000 unfilled jobs across Canada OTTAWA, April 23
/CNW/ - Labour shortages continue to plague small and medium-sized business owners
throughout Canada; approximately 265,000 jobs are currently vacant in the small
business sector and roughly 185,000 of them have been open for at least four months.
This is especially troubling in the context of an economic recovery, where labour
shortages will further limit the ability of firms to expand and create prosperity.
These are among the key findings being shared this morning by the Canadian Federation
of Independent Business (CFIB) during a pre-budget presentation to the House of
Commons Standing Committee on Finance. A survey conducted among CFIB's 102,000
business owner members during the first three months of 2002 found that 26 per cent
of firms surveyed had at least one vacant job open because they were unable to find
people with suitable skills. These vacancies represent 4.5 per cent of total
employment in these businesses - equivalent to roughly one job out of every 22.

In addition, 20 per cent of respondents said that they had at least one job vacant
for four months or longer, giving a long-term vacancy rate of 3.2 per cent.

"What's interesting, is that these numbers are virtually identical to those we
collected in the final quarter of 2000," said CFIB executive vice- president Garth
Whyte. "That indicates two things to me: first, that small business is continuing to
create jobs at a phenomenal rate, and second, that the shortage of qualified labour
may actually worsen as the economy strengthens."

Among sectors, Whyte noted that the construction industry has the biggest challenge
finding suitably skilled labour, with current and long-term vacancy rates of 7.2 per
cent and 5.5 per cent respectively. The business services and hospitality sectors
are also experiencing higher than average labour shortages. Conversely, he said
transportation, communications and wholesale industries are slightly less likely to
be experiencing labour shortages - reporting vacancy rates in the 3.1 to 3.5 per
cent range.

Whyte said that while the shortage of qualified labour is an issue for small
businesses right across the country, firms in Alberta are experiencing the problem
most acutely, with current job vacancy rates of 7.0 per cent, and long-term vacancies
at 5.4 per cent. Businesses in Manitoba are also experiencing higher-than-average
labour shortage rates. He said although this is a growing concern for all provinces,
the vacancy rate is below the national average in Newfoundland, British Columbia,
Ontario and Quebec.

Whyte said that the list of possible solutions CFIB is recommending to government,
businesses, and educators includes: adjusting the immigration system to be used more
effectively as a source of skilled labour; reducing the barriers to labour market
entry and mobility among regions; reducing the tax burden on job creation so that
more money can be devoted to wages and in- business training; facilitating greater
communication among small employers and educators at all levels; emphasizing learning
skills, co-op experience and transferability of credits within the school system;
better incorporation of private and vocational training into the wider education
system; and restructuring social programs so they do not provide a disincentive to
re- entering the workforce.

"CFIB will be undertaking a major skills, training/shortage of labour survey with
input from the federal and provincial governments over the summer to provide further
detail on pragmatic solutions to this important issue," said Whyte.

The report is based on information gathered by CFIB representatives conducting
in-person interviews with 11,253 business owner members between January and
March 2002.

For further information

contact Marie-danielle Davis at (613) 235-2373 or Holly Bennett or Anne Dean at (416)
222-8022. The full report is available on CFIB's web site at www.cfib.ca

George Achim

I lived in Germany too... by all means, go for the US freedom... amongst others, you
will have the freedom to: be fired anytime someone doesn't like you, live on the
street when you no longer can pay the rent, live without a health insurance... but
you can rest assured that by not having an ID card will compensate for all these
'minor' inconveniences. Germany has a social market economy, people are of concern,
and not only concerns are of concern. think carefully before that freedom may render
you to be 'too free'.

"John Galt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > Yeah, there are IT jobs in Germany. In fact, that's where I work right now and I
    > > have the best job I've ever had so far in my life.
    > >
    > > The bad news is that I have this strong desire to move to a big country, for
    > > freedom, space, nature and stuff like that.
    >
    > I worked there for a while and didn't like the place that much. The salaries were
    > approx. 70% of US salaries. Being single, I was paying a 45% tax, so a bunch of ppl
    > could sit at home and live off my slave work for them. They have a labour law that
    > apparently makes the worker the king in the company. They force employment
    > contracts on you with almost a 3 months notification notice in case of termination,
    > so if you like to jump from one job to another, forget about it. I don't think they
    > can fire you without justifying it to the government somehow, Marx and Lenin must
    > be partying in their graves. Burocracy is hudge, the government keeps track of
    > where you live and even of your religion (cause they have this church tax, although
    > I think it is voluntary) I don't remember the total cost of getting a driver
    > license, I think it was more than US$ 1,000. Germans could not comprehend the fact
    > that there can be no national Id in the US. So if you like freedom and all this
    > stuff, you'd better stick to the US
    >
    > Mit libertarianische gruessen (or however you say it) John Galt

pwhy

We could argue forever whether it's better to live in a country where government takes care of everything or live somewhere where you are on your own, more or less.

I noticed that most Germans like the thought of the Government watching over their lifes.

I am not saying that this is bad, only that everyone is different and we just have to understand that. What's good for me might not be good for the guy next to me.