OrangeMango

'No longer a citizen': Government letter tells mom of 4 she's not Canadian - Manitoba - CBC News

These are the things which bug me often about Canada, or at least when I read about it in the meda. How come this lady in question has citizenship card, but is being told that she is no longer a citizen?

Yes I am aware of the "lost Canadian" issue, but this lady in question actually has a citizenship card.

Would somebody like me, or possibly the majority of us here, who come/came as immigrants, like PR and later naturalized, lead a normal boring life, no issues with the law, ever be subject to these issues?

I know we discussed this before, but matters like this always makes me insecure. And it's the usual debate "you have nothing to fear", but also this lady in question had nothing to fear as well... I take it, and still it happened.

Would somebody explain to me, where this lady made any mistakes? Or where mistakes were made that she ended up with this issue?

DandNHill

Doesn’t sound like she made any mistakes. She’s more the victim of somebody else’s mistake.

I did have to chuckle when the only thing the husband is quoted to have said is that he has concerns who will take the kids to school if she is deported. I would hope he would miss her a little more than that.

Snowy560

She must fall into one of these groups. I am guessing because of her age that she was born between 1977 and 1981:

Lost Canadians - The Canadian Encyclopedia

or maybe it's something to do with this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...litch-1.632068

I didn't read the news article that carefully but it's one of the obscure "Lost Canadian" rules.

Former Lancastrian

Well at least he didn't say who would do the laundry, housework and cook supper
Unfortunately when legislation is changed or misunderstood it only comes to light when a situation like this occurs. If cases are not appealed via the courts then there is no change however with social media being what it is today it can put pressure on the Minister and other Govt officials to act however we know how slow and bureaucratic it can be to change legislation or remedy an apparent problem.
The following Wiki link has some good information providing the information providing the information posted want erroneous when posted or has been hacked by the Russians, Chinese or whoever else
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Canadians

Sometimes common sense is somewhat not evident in cases like this.

BritInParis

My cousin married a Canadian Mennonite who was born in Mexico. He's very vague on the details but his parents were also born in Mexico so I presume he had at least one Canadian-born grandparent. Apparently they just upped sticks one day and drove to Canada to stay. He holds a current Canadian passport but the applications to recognise his UK-born children as Canadian citizens were rejected.

Gozit

AFAIK, according to the new laws put in place in 2009, if your cousin's husband was born in Mexico, and so were his parents, but his grandparents were born in Canada, then he would have been a Canadian citizen, however since he was born abroad and his children were born abroad (in the UK) presumably after April 2009 then this would mean they are indeed not eligible for Canadian citizenship.

IMHO Canada needs to do something like the UK does and allow Canadians who were born abroad but have spent a certain amount of time in Canada to pass their citizenship on.

BritInParis

I think that's right. They were born after the change in the law. I did look into it at the time but even he doesn't know how he's Canadian so I didn't get very far. The new Canadian model is very close to the British (permitting one generation by descent only except for Crown service) but without the ability to register as you mentioned.

Gozit

Yeah I would assume he had Canadian-born (or naturalised) grandparents who moved back to Mexico, had his mum, who had him, and he was a Canadian citizen because at that time citizenship passed from generation to generation without limit.

I think the lack of ability to register is really unfair and plenty of people have been caught up in the middle of it. High-flying professionals producing a generation of stateless children | National Post

OrangeMango

I am always hoping that those kind of issues will only apply for people whose Canadian citizenship would be because of what their parents did, moved to, or didn't do, in terms of registering.

I'd say, that anybody who came to Canada by himself, filed for PR, or Provincial Nominee and was later naturalized as a Canadian, fulfilled the criteria, never committed a crime, would have citizenship forever.

But still the matter scares me. I often feel that there are two kinds of Canadians. The ones born Canadian, on physical Canadian soil, and "all the others" who were awarded citizenship for all other reasons, either naturalized or awarded because born overseas to one Canadian parent, etc...

Born Canadian on Canadian soil is always secure (apparently with the only exception that your parents were foreign diplomats). All the others may find challenges at some point, however rare these challenges might be.

I think anybody who holds a citizenship certificate and a passport should never ever lose citizenship. Normally it should be down to the authorities to find prove otherwise.

Whatever happened to Trudeau's acceptance speech where I heard "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian".

BritInParis

It's a consequence of poor law making. An amendment in Bill C-6 could have fixed that but wasn't included.

Former Lancastrian

Canadians making poor laws now theres a first
I see Bill C-23 has been passed without any controversy
The Government Is Spreading Falsehoods About The Preclearance Act

Im sure if arsed I could find quite a few more.

OrangeMango

Bill C-23 is another matter.

What I am still concerned is how secure is Canadian citizenship for those who hold a citizenship card, but were NOT born in Canada, but gotten citizenship some other means, like naturalization, etc...

I would like to have a law in Canada that clearly states that both born Canadians and naturalized Canadians or otherwise, will be citizens forever, no matter what. ( Only a grave conflict with the law and a crime as a possible exemption) What we as Canadians clearly don't need is the practice "If you didn't do this or that, there is nothing to fear....". I bet this mother of 4 had nothing to fear as well....

The case of a mother of 4 having her citizenship taken away, even though she holds a citizenship card is totally unacceptable. Since she holds a citizenship card, somebody, if not herself, than her parents, must have applied for that in some way shape or form. These certificates are only given, if requirements are met.

I can only hope that I would never have any issues like that.

BritInParis

A citizenship card is like a passport; possession doesn't confer citizenship, you need to be a citizen in order to have one. For the lady in question, as the second generation born abroad, she needed to apply to retain her Canadian citizenship before her 28th birthday, she didn't, and so ceased to be a Canadian citizen in 2006. That a citizenship certificate was issued in 2012 seems to be an administrative cock-up. If she obtained citizenship by birth or naturalisation then she wouldn't have a problem. She is likely now going to have to apply for naturalisation at the discretion of the Minister.

OrangeMango

That description sounds plausible, however any kind of administrative cock up should not be blamed on this lady in question. What I still don't get, is that she was already having a citizenship certificate. In order to have one of these citizenship certificates one must actively do something. Be an actual Canadian citizen, file an application, attach the supporting documents, etc.., comply with the requirements, and then they are issued, meaning somebody, either she herself or her parents applied for it. If one already has a citizenship certificate, why the need to apply for a new one? ( I am aware that ever since a couple of years there are new citizenship certificates, but there is no legal requirement to apply for a new one...)

I am often wondering, what kind of job the immigration authorities are actually doing these days? As mentioned on the CBC today, applications for spousal sponsorship refused and sent back, because birth certificate and passport photos were missing, even though they were both supplied with the application, and returned by the authorities? As her lawyer stated, it's a "government error". These errors seem to happen a little too often, that's the only conclusion one can have here.

Foreign spouses hit snags with 'streamlined' sponsorship program - Ottawa - CBC News

BritInParis

The citizenship card she was issued as a child was correct as she was under 28 at the time. That she didn't apply to retain her citizenship before she turned 28 is the problem. After 28 it became null and void.

Immigration officers are only human and mistakes happen. That being said, when cocks-up do happen en masse, it's usually because some senior manager has had a Great Idea and wants to Make Their Mark by breaking something that was working perfectly well before.