Ari

Greetings!

I would like to know

1. If I can claim English as my native language?
2. What constitutes proof that English is my native language?


I realise that this is an issue often visited in this group, and I do
apologize, but I haven't been able to find a comprehensive answer to
my specific question.

my background:
-born in India
-spoke English at home
-attended schools where the medium of instruction was English
-did Masters, Ph.D., and 4 years of Post-doctoral work in the US
-have authored scientific papers, presented scientific work at
National level meetings in the US.
- scored well on the TOEFL and GRE a long time ago
-grew up in Karnataka, India where English is listed as one of the two
official languages.

Can I claim English as my native language. If I can claim English as
my native language, what sort of proof do I need to submit? beacuse if
it means having to dig up secondary and high school certificates, it
might just be easier to take the IELTS test.

thanks,
kay

ps: a big thank you for all the people that have contributed to this
group in the past. I have really learnt a lot from my reading here!

Robert

Had you taken the trouble to read some of the recent posts your answers
would have been there

Even a VERY similar question !

"Ari" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Greetings!
    > I would like to know
    > 1. If I can claim English as my native language?
    > 2. What constitutes proof that English is my native language?
    > I realise that this is an issue often visited in this group, and I do
    > apologize, but I haven't been able to find a comprehensive answer to
    > my specific question.
    > my background:
    > -born in India
    > -spoke English at home
    > -attended schools where the medium of instruction was English
    > -did Masters, Ph.D., and 4 years of Post-doctoral work in the US
    > -have authored scientific papers, presented scientific work at
    > National level meetings in the US.
    > - scored well on the TOEFL and GRE a long time ago
    > -grew up in Karnataka, India where English is listed as one of the two
    > official languages.
    > Can I claim English as my native language. If I can claim English as
    > my native language, what sort of proof do I need to submit? beacuse if
    > it means having to dig up secondary and high school certificates, it
    > might just be easier to take the IELTS test.
    > thanks,
    > kay
    > ps: a big thank you for all the people that have contributed to this
    > group in the past. I have really learnt a lot from my reading here!

Andrew Miller

Sorry, but English is not your native language. But based on description of
your background it may be possible to provide substitute evidence as proof
of language proficiency, although such will never guarantee that you will
get full 16 points for language.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Ari" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Greetings!
    > I would like to know
    > 1. If I can claim English as my native language?
    > 2. What constitutes proof that English is my native language?
    > I realise that this is an issue often visited in this group, and I do
    > apologize, but I haven't been able to find a comprehensive answer to
    > my specific question.
    > my background:
    > -born in India
    > -spoke English at home
    > -attended schools where the medium of instruction was English
    > -did Masters, Ph.D., and 4 years of Post-doctoral work in the US
    > -have authored scientific papers, presented scientific work at
    > National level meetings in the US.
    > - scored well on the TOEFL and GRE a long time ago
    > -grew up in Karnataka, India where English is listed as one of the two
    > official languages.
    > Can I claim English as my native language. If I can claim English as
    > my native language, what sort of proof do I need to submit? beacuse if
    > it means having to dig up secondary and high school certificates, it
    > might just be easier to take the IELTS test.
    > thanks,
    > kay
    > ps: a big thank you for all the people that have contributed to this
    > group in the past. I have really learnt a lot from my reading here!

Dylan Thurston

On 2004-01-14, Ari <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I realise that this is an issue often visited in this group, and I do
    > apologize, but I haven't been able to find a comprehensive answer to
    > my specific question.

If you're applying for a skilled worker visa, it's probably a good idea
to read the instructions for the people who will review your file: read
OP6.10.10 from the Canadian immigration web site at
http://www.cic.gc.ca/manuals-guides/english/op/
There aren't very many people here who know more than that.

Peace,
Dylan

Andrew Miller

And once you follow Dylan's advice you will hopefully realize that providing
substitute evidence will not only be quite a challenge compared to taking
IELTS test but also you'll see that such evidence will not guarantee maximum
points as I mentioned earlier because officer assessment will be rather
subjective.

I would recommend providing substitute evidence (regardless that you have
quite strong background for such evidence) only if it is impossible or
extremely difficult for you to attend IELTS test.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Dylan Thurston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > If you're applying for a skilled worker visa, it's probably a good idea
    > to read the instructions for the people who will review your file: read
    > OP6.10.10 from the Canadian immigration web site at
    > http://www.cic.gc.ca/manuals-guides/english/op/
    > There aren't very many people here who know more than that.
    > Peace,
    > Dylan

Cicero

For your situation and background, it is quite clear that you don't need to take the IELTS.
Provide just information explaining your background related to information you just mentioned and it will be almost certainly sufficient.

Ashok

Ari
In case you plan to apply from India, I suggest submission of IELTS test report. India is a very very busy immigration post. Request for submission of IELTS test report after first review, which takes place 2 to 2.5 years after submission of application, may put your application behind by another 1 year.

Once VISA officer decides to call for IELTS report, applicant is not given 2nd opportunity to provide further written submission claiming desired proficiency.

Ofcourse attach it with the application. Later date submission is like sending light to a black hole. You will never get acknowledgement.

Moreover appearing for IELTS in India , and getting result can be finished within 1 to 2 months , which can be planned and completed while waiting for PCC.

yr0000

Ashok is right.
The fact that you are so proficient in English is more reason for you to give the IELTS.
I understand where you are coming from, but I strongly suggest you submit all the paperwork required.
It will make life easier for you in the long run !

Y!

Ari

I want to thank everyone for their prompt responses (well, except
maybe Robert!).

I understand that it is a gamble of sorts and given that the stakes
are pretty high,I will probably end up taking the IELTS.

However, the second part of my question hasnt been fully addressed as
yet.

If I do decide to provide evidence in lieu of taking the test. What
sort of evidence would this be? Letters from US employers? degree
certificates? debating society membership card?? I dont see what I can
provide that will satisfy the "listening" benchmark.

Can anyone shed light on this?

Thanks!

Cicero

You can also search within the group that many people with much less English language background were approved without taking the test. No one here reported directly that was refused because of the IELTS.
It is just a plane common sense. There is no perfect application with or without the IELTS. The refusal risk does not go drastically with taking the test for your situation. It would be overkill for you to take the test, loosing time and money on this. But again it is your choice that you will need to live with, no matter how more cautious or other more rational advisors are suggesting.

Andrew Miller

Can you guarantee in writing (with some sort of financial compensation if it
doesn't work) to the original poster that s/he will get maximum points for
language by following your advice? I guess not...

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Cicero" <member18614@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > You can also search within the group that many people with much less
    > English language background were approved without taking the test. No
    > one here reported directly that was refused because of the IELTS.
    > It is just a plane common sense. There is no perfect application with
    > or without the IELTS. The refusal risk does not go drastically with
    > taking the test for your situation. It would be overkill for you to
    > take the test, loosing time and money on this. But again it is your
    > choice that you will need to live with, no matter how more cautious or
    > other more rational advisors are suggesting.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Cicero

Can you gurantee that the applicant will not waste money and time on the IELTS? Can you guarantee that the immigration will refuse his application without IELTS? For sure - NOT!

Andrew Miller

But I can guarantee that applicant will be awarded number of points for
language proficiency accordingly to his/her IELTS results. And this is what
counts. Thus it won't be a waste of money on IELTS if test guarantees proper
number of points as per test results. $100 for test is a waste of money? It
is very cheap price for peace of mind and guarantee. Read the manual.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________



"Cicero" <member18614@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Can you gurantee that the applicant will not waste money and time on the
    > IELTS? Can you guarantee that the immigration will refuse his
    > application without IELTS? For sure - NOT!
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Cicero

Hopefully you are not advising people with that limited perspective that you are manifesting now. You can not go advising people mechanistically without looking to their background. Read again his post. Think a bit. For sure 100$ is nothing compared to your fat commission that you are taking but in other parts of the world 100$ is a lot. However, I am speaking about different aspects of the preparation costs not only about the application fee.

Look at the persons background. He has full English proficiency needed and he document that without taking the test. There are number of people in the newsgroup that reported not taking the test and being successful - having the much worst "English proficiency background". No one reported directly that someone failed because of the IELTS. You can advocate dark, nebulous scenarios but reality is quite different. Worst thing that can happen to him – realistically – is that he is asked by immigration to take the test.

This applicant will make his own decision, there are two options and choice is his - not yours or my. You and some others have one perspective - wrong in my opinion - and I have my perspective that was elaborated above.

Paula

"Cicero" <member18614@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > You can also search within the group that many people with much less
    > English language background were approved without taking the test. No
    > one here reported directly that was refused because of the IELTS.
    > It is just a plane common sense. There is no perfect application with
    > or without the IELTS. The refusal risk does not go drastically with
    > taking the test for your situation. It would be overkill for you to
    > take the test, loosing time and money on this. But again it is your
    > choice that you will need to live with, no matter how more cautious or
    > other more rational advisors are suggesting.
Hi Cicero try the word "plain" NOT "plane"

Maybe you should consider the test ?