Is my PR still valid?

Old Jun 16th 2010, 9:09 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by dippy
For me it is clear that the intent behind the law requires you to be present for at least two of the five years from the date of landing and a rolling period thereafter. If you dont fulfill this requirement it will be picked up on the application for which specifically asks for the date you became a PR..... if you have been out of Canada for more than 1095 days in that period, unless you qualify for exemption as per the options on the form,you will lose your PR status.
The problem is the form may well ask for that, but it only requires you to tell them when you were in and out of canada over the last 5 years, and there is no obligation for a PR to have an active PR card unless they wish to travel...

Its inconsistent, and so far none of the consultants or IOs who lurk here has come through with any legal view point or precedent to say how risky it is to return after you cant meet two years in your first five (using what is still a valid PR card), but then just sit tight until you are in a position that you do meet the requirement before filling out the form. Its a big grey area if you ask me. Legally you are right, but I wonder about the enforcement and likelyhood of it creating a problem the way things are done now.
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Old Jun 16th 2010, 10:18 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by iaink
Yes. Basically you can return to Canada on the PR card you have, but as you wont be able to acquire the magical total of two years residency out of five before you have to renew the card, you are likely to loose your permanent residence status at that time.
This is not my area of expertize so I could well be wrong but ...

I understand that if you arrive at passport control in Canada at a time when you cannot meet the 2 years out of 5 requirement then this is noted on your file at that time. It is sent to some sort of tribunal that will review your case. At that point your PR can/will be revoked.
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Old Jun 16th 2010, 2:25 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Hi

Originally Posted by JonboyE
This is not my area of expertize so I could well be wrong but ...

I understand that if you arrive at passport control in Canada at a time when you cannot meet the 2 years out of 5 requirement then this is noted on your file at that time. It is sent to some sort of tribunal that will review your case. At that point your PR can/will be revoked.
But if you don't get picked off at a Port of Entry and you remain in Canada for 2 years (even with an expired PR card) and apply for a renewal, when you have 2 years residency in the past 5, CIC will issue the card. They can't go back further than 5 years in assessing your application.
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Old Jun 16th 2010, 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by PMM
But if you don't get picked off at a Port of Entry and you remain in Canada for 2 years (even with an expired PR card) and apply for a renewal, when you have 2 years residency in the past 5, CIC will issue the card. They can't go back further than 5 years in assessing your application.
The only way not to be "picked off" at the border is to either lie or to omit the information about duration of absence from Canada when answering questions from the examining officer. Gaining admission by fraud or omission may bite person later anyway, even years later....
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Old Jun 17th 2010, 12:40 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by crazy72
The only way not to be "picked off" at the border is to either lie or to omit the information about duration of absence from Canada when answering questions from the examining officer. Gaining admission by fraud or omission may bite person later anyway, even years later....
But how does anyone prove what questions were or were not asked at the port of entry? If PR Card is valid then the immigration officer may or may not ask.
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Old Jun 17th 2010, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

I don't know about Australia, but every time myself or anyone I know returns to Canada from trip abroad the examining border officer always asks about the duration of the absence or trip. The question has to be asked for few reasons, among them in order to determine if there is any duty to be paid on items purchased abroad. I don't know any Canadian citizen or PR returning to Canada who hasn't been asked this question.

If officer admits the PR without filing Loss of Status report it is obvious that the answer given to the absence question was satisfactory. Unless there is an obvious evidence of lying or omitting information the officer has no reason to doubt the answer at the time of granting the admission. Fact of gaining admission fraudulently may be discovered at any time later and bite the fraudster.
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Old Jun 17th 2010, 2:19 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by crazy72
I don't know about Australia, but every time myself or anyone I know returns to Canada from trip abroad the examining border officer always asks about the duration of the absence or trip. The question has to be asked for few reasons, among them in order to determine if there is any duty to be paid on items purchased abroad. I don't know any Canadian citizen or PR returning to Canada who hasn't been asked this question.

If officer admits the PR without filing Loss of Status report it is obvious that the answer given to the absence question was satisfactory. Unless there is an obvious evidence of lying or omitting information the officer has no reason to doubt the answer at the time of granting the admission. Fact of gaining admission fraudulently may be discovered at any time later and bite the fraudster.
Obvious? You put great confidence in every immigration officer doing exactly the same thing.

Questions don't need to be asked in Australia because there is systematic exit and entry monitoring, it's all recorded.
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Old Jun 18th 2010, 12:40 am
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by JAJ
But how does anyone prove what questions were or were not asked at the port of entry? If PR Card is valid then the immigration officer may or may not ask.
Isnt length of absence from Canada one of the sections on the form you fill in on the plane to hand in on entry to Canada?

I just did it last week and cant remember for sure, but I think it was, if only to determine your duty free allowance...

I agree though that I dont think many IOs would create a problem for someone with a valid PR card. I am surprised that CIC only chooses (or is only allowed) to check back 5 years when running checks for issuing renewed PR cards.

Last edited by iaink; Jun 18th 2010 at 12:43 am.
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Old Jun 18th 2010, 12:49 am
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

the customs card does indeed ask how long you have been away

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publicati...s/e311-eng.pdf

right at the bottom
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Old Jun 18th 2010, 1:39 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

In my opinion, as you have been out of Canada for over 3 years, you have not met the requirements to keep your PR.

When you return it is possible, that as you have a valid PR card you might get in, but when you apply for your PR card, you will have to prove that you met the requirements throughout the first 5 years. At that point, you will probably be told that lost your PR status. Loss of Permanent Residency

If you are questioned when you get back, they may decide at this point that you have lost your status.

Obviously you can appeal, and if you have some compelling humanatarian or compassionate reasons why you were unable to meet the requirements they may renew.
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Old Jun 18th 2010, 1:44 am
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

on the whole it is an intersting question from a legal stand point

you are required to spend 2/5 years in the country to maintain your status and yet I believe only an immigration Judge has the right to revoke your PS status

so you can find yourself having failed to maintain your eligibility and yet still be a legitimate PR if your staus has not been revoked ( either because they didn't bother or didn't know)

I guess the question is do you as a PR have an obligation to tell an Immigration judge if your are no longer eligible for PR
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Old Jun 18th 2010, 2:12 am
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

Originally Posted by britsnake
when you apply for your PR card, you will have to prove that you met the requirements throughout the first 5 years.
Except that it appears that you dont have to prove that at all, you only have to prove that you meet 2/5 at the point you apply for a renewed card, which there is no obligation to do as soon as the old one expires because you only really need it if you are abroad trying to get back in.
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Old Jun 18th 2010, 4:55 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Is my PR still valid?

You are correct, though if when returning to Canada it is determined that they cannot meet the requirements for PR potentially they could lose their status at this point. They can only hope those questions are not asked.

They also cannot leave canada for any reason until it is safe again.
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