Mother in law - options required

Old Oct 4th 2008, 5:20 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Hi Ron,

Thank you very much for your helpful advice, on a area that is very confusing and sensitive. I fully agree with you on being completely honest with the CBSA this is why MIL is coming on a return ticket for 6 months.

We would like to come and see you once we have arrived in Vancouver and we hope that you may be able to help us resolve our MIL's situation.

Many thanks Vanessa.
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Old Oct 4th 2008, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman View Post
Re b) No, in fact you wrote that they could sponsor while on TWP's. Perhaps that was a typo.
You are correct - it was a typo. I had meant to say you can't sponsor while on a TWP - my appologies.

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman View Post
Re a) The purpose of a consultation would be to work out if there is likely to be a medical inadmissibility issue, and to outline the viable options for this family, including, if in fact there is likely to be a medical isssue, the possibility of guaranteeing payment of the relevant costs in a manner that is acceptable to CIC. In that case there would need to be an estimate of the medical costs, a cogent and credible explanation of how those would be met from the family's existing resources and probably guarantees would need to be structured to ensure the costs would continue to be paid. This seems to me to cover what blake75 asked initially!
I'm still not sure I understand what you mean here. The OP would know if his mother-in-law currently requires on-going care for her original condition. If that is case there could be an issue in the future but the strategy you seem to be proposing (making a case to show they have the ability and intent to personally cover medical costs personally to ensure she doesnt create excessive demand) would normally only apply to accompanying family members of Business Class applicants (I'm sure you are aware of the relevant CIC operational bulletin that I am referring to) not sponsorship applications. If, on the other hand the original medical condition has settled and she isnt currently receiving ongoing care for it then there is no reason to think there would be any medical inadmissibility issue.

Last edited by Paul Wildy; Oct 4th 2008 at 5:49 pm.
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Old Oct 4th 2008, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Just wanted to say thank you to all who contributed to the more detailed discussion on this thread.

I have found it really helpful.

Needless to say that as things develop i'll be back to pick your brains some more

Thanks again
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Old Oct 4th 2008, 9:48 pm
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Hi Blake75

We have now attained PR status, now almost sold in the UK, just awaiting exchange of contracts. Once we land we also need to apply to Sponsor parents, subject to earning the required amount... JOB!

The most important point is get your PR card... time is ticking. I have found that although I have skills in demand, it's always better to be in Canada to get the interview. You should be aware of this, unless you have a really scarce skill.

The answer is difficult, if you feel that the MIL will not pass a medical, then you and your wife may need to work out some "what if" scenarios.
Believe me, my wife's parents are healthy at the moment and do not burden the UK health system, but time waits for no one!

My advice, from our failings, don't dilly dally when you need to move on Medicals/PPRs and landing in Canada. Get it done PDQ.

It's a real brain ache, but each family is different... do we just do it or not just do it. Either way everyone, including parents meet the final destination in life, you need to consider the negative possibilities in all plans and deal with it in your own way, it depends how much you need to move!

We have three kids to think about, our decision is based on the kids and if we get the parents, then it's big plus! If we don't then they can visit us SIX months, perhaps longer?

I hope this helps a little

Bob
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 12:52 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller View Post
As for medical inadmissibility - nobody, not even doctor in Canada can tell you what the medical decision may be. You must go through the process (few years at best) and at the end of process your in-law will undergo medical examination, results will be assessed by CIC's medical officer and decision will be made. There is no other way to find out if she will be inadmissible or not.
Why couldn't an experienced immigration practitioner give an assessment?

Are the medical criteria a state secret?
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 1:29 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Immigration practitioners are not medical officers and most of us (if not all) should stay away from giving any medical assessments. More - in order to make a medical inadmissibility assessment the full medical history, medical tests results, etc. must be evaluated by trained medical officer - again, immigration practitioners have no expertise nor training to do it.

All experienced immigration practitioner can do is to say that person may or may not be inadmissible, subject to medical examination and evaluation by medical officer. Some of us, who have experience in dealing with medical inadmissibility may say what can be done to improve chances for positive medical decision and that in many (if not most) cases with medical inadmissibility it will be federal court that will make final determination.

Telling applicant anything beyond that or "giving medical assessment" would be irresponsible and unethical, if not illegal.
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 3:08 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller View Post
Immigration practitioners are not medical officers and most of us (if not all) should stay away from giving any medical assessments. More - in order to make a medical inadmissibility assessment the full medical history, medical tests results, etc. must be evaluated by trained medical officer - again, immigration practitioners have no expertise nor training to do it.

All experienced immigration practitioner can do is to say that person may or may not be inadmissible, subject to medical examination and evaluation by medical officer. Some of us, who have experience in dealing with medical inadmissibility may say what can be done to improve chances for positive medical decision and that in many (if not most) cases with medical inadmissibility it will be federal court that will make final determination.

Telling applicant anything beyond that or "giving medical assessment" would be irresponsible and unethical, if not illegal.
I don't quite follow how advising on what the medical standards for admissibility or otherwise are could possibly be unethical or illegal.

But you haven't commented on whether the standards are available in the first place or not.

In Australia, it is usually possible for experienced practitioners to say either "no problem" or "no chance" in about 80% of cases where a medical question is raised.

Last edited by JAJ; Oct 5th 2008 at 3:12 am.
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 4:39 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Jeremy, you already know what is the rule of thumb when it comes to medical inadmissibility on grounds of excessive demand - if predicted for the first 5 years from landing annual medical expenses will exceed average annual medical expenses of statistical Canadian (~$5,000) then person will be found inadmissible. There is no secret here and this matter has been explained and discussed gazzillion times in this forum.

But you asked - "Why couldn't an experienced immigration practitioner give an assessment?"

Giving an assessment is something completely different and well beyond telling what the rules and policies are.

And how different from what Australian practitioner may say is what what I stated:

All experienced immigration practitioner can do is to say that person may or may not be inadmissible, subject to medical examination and evaluation by medical officer.

Giving medical evaluation or advice by person not licensed to do so is not very legal in many jurisdictions. Telling applicant that s/he will for sure be or not be found inadmissible is unethical - we are not medical officers assessing health history and results of medical examination, we don't even have expertise to do so.

OP is not yet a PR - it will take at least few years from the time OP becomes a PR and starts living in Canada until the time his MIL will undergo medicals. Making any predictions or God forbid "assessments" now would be more that irresponsible as nobody knows what applicants (OP's MIL) medical conditions will be at that time.

Of course if someone is quadriplegic and on life support for the rest of his/her life then it is easy to predict that few years from now the person will be found inadmissible. But it is impossible to predict today what very healthy or less healthy person's conditions will be few years from now. Thus making any "assessments" is just trying to read the crystal ball.

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Oct 5th 2008 at 4:58 am.
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 8:39 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

I agree with these discussions, it's like reading a crystal ball.

Everyone should know that nobody can predict the future, so an assessment now would be worthless in three years.

During my progress from applying for PR to succeeding, it took 2.5 years... a LOT of water has passed under the bridge in this time.

The best thing that blake75 can do is get everything completed ASAP and get the finish line as quick as possible. Then there will be some big decisions to be made!
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 4:31 pm
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller View Post
Jeremy, you already know what is the rule of thumb when it comes to medical inadmissibility on grounds of excessive demand - if predicted for the first 5 years from landing annual medical expenses will exceed average annual medical expenses of statistical Canadian (~$5,000) then person will be found inadmissible. There is no secret here and this matter has been explained and discussed gazzillion times in this forum.

But you asked - "Why couldn't an experienced immigration practitioner give an assessment?"

Giving an assessment is something completely different and well beyond telling what the rules and policies are.

And how different from what Australian practitioner may say is what what I stated:

All experienced immigration practitioner can do is to say that person may or may not be inadmissible, subject to medical examination and evaluation by medical officer.

Giving medical evaluation or advice by person not licensed to do so is not very legal in many jurisdictions. Telling applicant that s/he will for sure be or not be found inadmissible is unethical - we are not medical officers assessing health history and results of medical examination, we don't even have expertise to do so.

OP is not yet a PR - it will take at least few years from the time OP becomes a PR and starts living in Canada until the time his MIL will undergo medicals. Making any predictions or God forbid "assessments" now would be more that irresponsible as nobody knows what applicants (OP's MIL) medical conditions will be at that time.

Of course if someone is quadriplegic and on life support for the rest of his/her life then it is easy to predict that few years from now the person will be found inadmissible. But it is impossible to predict today what very healthy or less healthy person's conditions will be few years from now. Thus making any "assessments" is just trying to read the crystal ball.
Yes, thanks Andrew that was really the point I was trying to make. The suggestion that blake75 should start spending money on assessments or consultations now seem irresponsible to me since the conlusion from this consultation would only be pure conjecture anyway - nobody knows what a medical officer will decide.

I think the best advise would be to simply go through the process and await an actual decision at the end of it in several years time. Dont not go through the sponsorship process because there might or might not be a problem but be aware that there is always the possibility (as with any application really) that the application might not be successful. If the final outcome is a refusal then seek expert help with how to appeal against it.
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Best time to seek expert's advice will be few months prior to the expected time of medicals request. It should give enough time to prepare all what will be needed to fight possible inadmissibility before such decision is made. Appeal is the last resort.
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 6:18 pm
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Originally Posted by NSpaul View Post
Yes, thanks Andrew that was really the point I was trying to make. The suggestion that blake75 should start spending money on assessments or consultations now seem irresponsible to me since the conlusion from this consultation would only be pure conjecture anyway - nobody knows what a medical officer will decide.
It is not "pure conjecture". Most competent medical practitioners with the right specialism can assess a person's current condition and advise on the prognosis.

If someone does not meet medical criteria for immigration today then depending on the condition there might be a precisely 0% chance of meeting the criteria in a few years time.


I think the best advise would be to simply go through the process and await an actual decision at the end of it in several years time. Dont not go through the sponsorship process because there might or might not be a problem but be aware that there is always the possibility (as with any application really) that the application might not be successful. If the final outcome is a refusal then seek expert help with how to appeal against it.
Maybe. As long as this does not involve uprooting oneself in anticipation of a favorable medical decision that may have a close to zero chance of being forthcoming.
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Old Oct 5th 2008, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
It is not "pure conjecture". Most competent medical practitioners with the right specialism can assess a person's current condition and advise on the prognosis.

If someone does not meet medical criteria for immigration today then depending on the condition there might be a precisely 0% chance of meeting the criteria in a few years time.
Yes but as Andrew said we were talking about an assessment by an immigration consultant. Getting a medical practitioner to assess someone's condition and give a prognosis will obviously tell you their medical state of health but presumably they already know that? Unless the person in question hasnt been to a doctor at all recently that is.

Anyway, we are clearly not all agreed on the timing etc and best approach but that probably doesnt matter - I would think there is enough information and variety of opinions on here to help the OP decide a way forward. As with anything I guess if you ask 10 different people you get 10 different answers.
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Old Oct 6th 2008, 10:30 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

Originally Posted by RGPickles View Post
I agree with these discussions, it's like reading a crystal ball.

Everyone should know that nobody can predict the future, so an assessment now would be worthless in three years.

During my progress from applying for PR to succeeding, it took 2.5 years... a LOT of water has passed under the bridge in this time.

The best thing that blake75 can do is get everything completed ASAP and get the finish line as quick as possible. Then there will be some big decisions to be made!
Hi Bob, I have PM'd you on here.

Linda :-)
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Old Oct 6th 2008, 11:52 am
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Default Re: Mother in law - options required

While on the subject of MIL's, I want to keep mine out of Canada once we get there, I don't fancy her coming out every six months for six months!!!!! Damn these loopholes
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