MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

Wow my partner and I have also been considering the Canadian dream, he
is a software engineer C++/Embedded systems. I am shocked by some of
the stories I have read here as we have been encouraged by all
'official' information. I understand that Vancouver is perhaps not a
hotbed for IT'ites seeking work. Can you reccommend a good area for
this market? Thanks for any feedback :0)

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

Ottawa / Waterloo may have some ops for embedded systems. Yes IT market is
quite down right now - Toronto seems to have at least four qualified
applicants for each opening - couple of years ago they had three decent jobs
for each qualified applicant - you can see the difference.
Though I don't want to sound pessimistic -you may have to survive on your
savings for 6 to 8 months after you land before you see anything coming up.
Vancouver is great from weather perspective but was never an IT city...



"lemonade7" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Wow my partner and I have also been considering the Canadian dream, he
    > is a software engineer C++/Embedded systems. I am shocked by some of
    > the stories I have read here as we have been encouraged by all
    > 'official' information. I understand that Vancouver is perhaps not a
    > hotbed for IT'ites seeking work. Can you reccommend a good area for
    > this market? Thanks for any feedback :0)

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

Kitchener/Waterloo area, and from what I hear from a friend of mine (manager
in a wireless company), they are doing quite nicely, though not as frenzied
as things were in 1999/2000. You might try contacting the chamber of
commerce or business registries in the region to identify all wireless
companies and make up a list of companies to prospect for jobs in.

Generally, Canada's economy is doing well, IT is just in a bad slump (big
party/big hangover!) thats all.

Hope this helps you.

"lemonade7" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Wow my partner and I have also been considering the Canadian dream, he
    > is a software engineer C++/Embedded systems. I am shocked by some of
    > the stories I have read here as we have been encouraged by all
    > 'official' information. I understand that Vancouver is perhaps not a
    > hotbed for IT'ites seeking work. Can you reccommend a good area for
    > this market? Thanks for any feedback :0)

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

On 25 Feb 2003 10:04:36 -0800, [email protected] (lemonade7)
wrote:

    >Wow my partner and I have also been considering the Canadian dream, he
    >is a software engineer C++/Embedded systems. I am shocked by some of
    >the stories I have read here as we have been encouraged by all
    >'official' information. I understand that Vancouver is perhaps not a
    >hotbed for IT'ites seeking work. Can you reccommend a good area for
    >this market? Thanks for any feedback :0)

I work as an embedded software developer in Waterloo, Ontario. For
the size of the city (~90,000) it has a fair number of technology
companies. Ottawa is a larger city with more opportunities but has
suffered somewhat from large layoffs by Nortel and JDS Uniphase.
I've never heard Vancouver described as an 'IT' city but it is a
beautiful place to live.

As for Toronto... there are definitely 'IT' jobs available, but it
depends whether you'd prefer a large/medium/small city.


A good source of information on tech companies in waterloo can be
found at
http://www.garywill.com/waterloo/


Kevin

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

Calgary does have a fair IT market - search the internet for IT contracting
companies servicing calgary. Here is one I use:
www.sisystems.com


"lemonade7" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Wow my partner and I have also been considering the Canadian dream, he
    > is a software engineer C++/Embedded systems. I am shocked by some of
    > the stories I have read here as we have been encouraged by all
    > 'official' information. I understand that Vancouver is perhaps not a
    > hotbed for IT'ites seeking work. Can you reccommend a good area for
    > this market? Thanks for any feedback :0)

IT market is down thru out the world except in India, where huge recruitment is still going on. This is because most European/American companies outsource their projects to Asia for cheaper development. Most of them have set up ODC [offshore development center] in India where hundreds of people work in a single project. Only the very high skill design and development work is going on onsite - all other works are being outsourced. Experts say that this trend will continue and IT market will never be like before in Europe/America.

I would agree with the outsourcing but I think that applies to large corporate companies & also to generalise broadly is generally specific to programming - I could be wrong

There is still a need for local IT people for small to medium companies where outsourcing doesnt apply.

I wonder how you could ever outsource Desktop support and Network admin effectively. Bandwidth is one thing but there will always be the need to have someone on site as figuring stuff out over a comm line is not always the best way to go - I think face to face support will still exist. think of the language and comm barrier with cheap outsourcing as well.

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

sbasak wrote:
    >
    > IT market is down thru out the world except in India, where huge
    > recruitment is still going on. This is because most European/American
    > companies outsource their projects to Asia for cheaper development. Most
    > of them have set up ODC [offshore development center] in India where
    > hundreds of people work in a single project. Only the very high skill
    > design and development work is going on onsite - all other works are
    > being outsourced. Experts say that this trend will continue and IT
    > market will never be like before in Europe/America.

And several have started already to realize the cost of this. They are
getting second rate product.

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

sbasak wrote:
    >
    > IT market is down thru out the world except in India, where huge
    > recruitment is still going on. This is because most European/American
    > companies outsource their projects to Asia for cheaper development. Most
    > of them have set up ODC [offshore development center] in India where
    > hundreds of people work in a single project. Only the very high skill
    > design and development work is going on onsite - all other works are
    > being outsourced. Experts say that this trend will continue and IT
    > market will never be like before in Europe/America.

And several have started already to realize the cost of this. They are
getting second rate product. That's not saying that the workers doing
the work are producing inferior product because they are not capable,
but rather the loss of control of the quality of the product as soon as
you outsource becomes far greater. And you get what you pay for.

Outsourcing doesn't produce low quality product rather often the reverse is true! Otherwise majority of large companies wouldn't have talked about outsourcing. Of course, outsourcing does make many IT people in Europe/America lose their jobs. Another point is that, in India/China usually Engineers do the work [due to the economic conditions there] where as in Europe/America majority [I'm not saying all] of IT people have very poor formal education. That's why outsourcing often produces good result with low cost.

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

"Aikido251" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Outsourcing is good and quality is never sacrificed.....

Wrong .. quality is sometimes sacrificed because outsourced contractors have
no vested interest in the company and aren't always up to speed with
everything.

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

[email protected] (Aikido251) wrote in message news:...
    > Outsourcing is good and quality is never sacrificed.....

I would not put too much weight on Aikidiot remarks. There is an
article on this on the businessweek on feb. 03 regarding global
outsourcing. While it was established that it is far cheaper to
outsource these jobs, results are still mixed. Some projects and
business groups that was moved offshore are successful and have become
the company's core competitive edge. Others are not that successful
having gone over its budget and remain unfinished. For now while the
trend of global outsourcing will continue (according to Gartner), It
needs more time to assess and evaluate the impact of this on a company
doing the outsourcing. Plus there is the instability factor. If
Pakistan and India starts trading nukes...or political upheaval starts
again in the Phils....

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5/b3818051.htm

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

sbasak wrote:
    >
    > Outsourcing doesn't produce low quality product rather often the reverse
    > is true! Otherwise majority of large companies wouldn't have talked
    > about outsourcing. Of course, outsourcing does make many IT people in
    > Europe/America lose their jobs. Another point is that, in India/China
    > usually Engineers do the work [due to the economic conditions there]
    > where as in Europe/America majority [I'm not saying all] of IT people
    > have very poor formal education. That's why outsourcing often produces
    > good result with low cost.

Outsourcing CAN produce low quality product often out of touch with what
the company actually wants.

Companies outsource for one reason ... money. It is considered to be
cheaper to outsource. The company has no employee committment and
therefore if they decide that the product isn't selling, they simply
terminate the contract. There are no employee severance packages to
pay etc.

I have seen appalling outsourced IT coming out of Asia - I've also seen
good. I've seen company management totally frustrated because they've
asked for a swing and got a slide. What is delivered is frequently not
what was requested when you are too far from your outsource
organisation.

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

Ignore stuart...it's all about pillow testing where he gets these stupid ideas.

    >Subject: Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
    >From: Stuart Brook [email protected]
    >Date: 2/27/03 4:54 PM Atlantic Standard Time
    >Message-id:
    >sbasak wrote:
    >>
    >> Outsourcing doesn't produce low quality product rather often the reverse
    >> is true! Otherwise majority of large companies wouldn't have talked
    >> about outsourcing. Of course, outsourcing does make many IT people in
    >> Europe/America lose their jobs. Another point is that, in India/China
    >> usually Engineers do the work [due to the economic conditions there]
    >> where as in Europe/America majority [I'm not saying all] of IT people
    >> have very poor formal education. That's why outsourcing often produces
    >> good result with low cost.
    >Outsourcing CAN produce low quality product often out of touch with what
    >the company actually wants.
    >Companies outsource for one reason ... money. It is considered to be
    >cheaper to outsource. The company has no employee committment and
    >therefore if they decide that the product isn't selling, they simply
    >terminate the contract. There are no employee severance packages to
    >pay etc.
    >I have seen appalling outsourced IT coming out of Asia - I've also seen
    >good. I've seen company management totally frustrated because they've
    >asked for a swing and got a slide. What is delivered is frequently not
    >what was requested when you are too far from your outsource
    >organisation.

Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
 

And what experience do you have with outsourcing?

Care to give examples of why outsourcing is the way to go?

Have you even worked with someone who was outsourced?

"Aikido251" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Outsourcing is the way to go.
    > >Subject: Re: MORE 'IT' CANADA
    > >From: "ColdCathoids" [email protected]
    > >Date: 2/27/03 4:02 PM Atlantic Standard Time
    > >Message-id:
    > >
    > >
    > >"Aikido251" wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> Outsourcing is good and quality is never sacrificed.....
    > >
    > >Wrong .. quality is sometimes sacrificed because outsourced contractors
have
    > >no vested interest in the company and aren't always up to speed with
    > >everything.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >