Lost of hope

Old Jan 14th 2010, 8:26 pm
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Default Lost of hope

MY name is Jessica;

I going thru Bunac for a WHV which i desire more than anything in the world. By now i have lost all hope, i know is never a right light, people in other forums have been very harsh and blunt about my situation.

Im 24 years old and almost two years ago, me and my fiancee at the time split up. We went to an argument that took place at our home (Well what I used to call our home) the guy cheated on me with another woman and i found them sleeping in my bed. I was distraught and i just wanted to leave...

The argument became really physical and he provoked me by verbally abusing me and physically pushing me down so i hit him. He called the police as i was in a state of shock in the front door. And because he was the one that phoned them, i was taken in for a couple of hours to calm down.

HE did NOT press charges, but i was down, demoralised, i didnt even know at the time a caution was that bad so i accepted it, in fact, yes i did hit him, but i was in shatters, and he was pressing me down against the floor. I just wanted to get out of the police station go home grab my stuff and leave.

Now almost 2 years down the line i have been to Canada just once, actually just came back and i want to be back there met some really nice friends and well to spend a year over there will mean the world to me. But having this stupid Caution for Assault by Beating... OH I HATE THE ***** D! Im afraid that i have ruined my chances to ever achieving a dream to be in Canada.

Do i waste my money applying and gambling the chance of acceptance!? I have written a letter detailing painfully what happened that day, how it happened, i have character references from two people. Is like Jesus they make you feel like you've killed someone! and even so people that have killed people GO TO CANADA?! and get ACCEPTED?! yes they do... i know some people that are there with that sort of history from the Dominica Republic. it took them 3 years but still!

Any advice any glimmer of hope is by far now gone. Even tho i haven't even fully applied, and im yet to send the ACPO forms........... Im lost....... Stupid mistakes, makes me feel like i should of let my ex boyfriend just kill me for trying to get him off me.... I dont want to go back to the past anymore it HURTS!!

HELP!
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 9:22 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

First of all, calm down. You're only 24 and have ONE caution. This isn't going to bar you for ever.

You do need to investigate criminal rehab, of which lots has been written on this site. There has also been a lot of discussion as to whether a caution counts as a criminal conviction or not, but it is not our opinion that counts, as they want to know about all convictions, offences, etc. Only immigration will tell you if and when they will consider you for rehab. Five years from the date of the caution, they will definitely look at rehab. If you want an official answer, fill in a For Information Only application (which is free) and send off to immigration. They will give you official confirmation as to whether you are inadmissible and as to when they will look at rehab. You can do that now.

Bear in mind, the bad news means that if you are inadmissible for immigration, you are inadmissible as a visitor.

Worst case? You're inadmissible until cleared by rehab, which could be six years after the date of the caution. You would still be under 30.

Good luck - I know from our experiences how acting in the heat of the moment can have devastating consequences on your future. Don't bash any more cheating, lying scumbags in the meantime.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 9:32 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

Originally Posted by Kaye5
First of all, calm down. You're only 24 and have ONE caution. This isn't going to bar you for ever.

You do need to investigate criminal rehab, of which lots has been written on this site. There has also been a lot of discussion as to whether a caution counts as a criminal conviction or not, but it is not our opinion that counts, as they want to know about all convictions, offences, etc. Only immigration will tell you if and when they will consider you for rehab. Five years from the date of the caution, they will definitely look at rehab. If you want an official answer, fill in a For Information Only application (which is free) and send off to immigration. They will give you official confirmation as to whether you are inadmissible and as to when they will look at rehab. You can do that now.

Bear in mind, the bad news means that if you are inadmissible for immigration, you are inadmissible as a visitor.

Worst case? You're inadmissible until cleared by rehab, which could be six years after the date of the caution. You would still be under 30.

Good luck - I know from our experiences how acting in the heat of the moment can have devastating consequences on your future. Don't bash any more cheating, lying scumbags in the meantime.
The thing is i been to visit no problems, i'm scared that applying will cause an effect on me visiting again.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 9:50 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

It certainly could.

It isn't something people think of when going on holiday and if you were not asked.....

But, if immigration confirms you are inadmissible, then you will be as a visitor as well and you will have created a record of yourself that could come up if you go in on a visitor visa.

If you apply for BUNAC, it will come up anyway.

If you are thinking of NOT applying for BUNAC, you have already established that nothing came up when you last went as a visitor - I cannot imagine they have access to every criminal database in the world, so rely on the honesty of travellers(!) to tell them if they have had any convictions. It's your choice whether you admit to it or not!

Going down the official, completely honest route, I heard somewhere (experts please leap in here) that it is possible for them to exercise discretion to someone who is technically inadmssible and to let them in on a visitor's visa. No idea how often this happens or what criteria they use.

You need to decide what you want to do. If you want to apply for BUNAC, this is going to have to be addressed. Even if you wait five years your police cert could show it (again, people's experience differs as to if / if not an old caution comes up, and people have been caught out).

What was the actual date of the caution - and are you 100% sure it was a formal caution, rather than just a warning? Get your police cert and see what's on it as a starter and make your mind up about BUNAC.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 9:52 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

Assuming thay you have already started the application process then call Bunac, the forms say that if your ACPO comes back with anything on it then they can offer advice dependant upon the offence and in some cases you just need to supply a letter explaining what happened.

It's definitely worth a phone call, at least then you will know for sure either way and I have had no problem so far when I have called them, despite the fact that I still do not have my welcome pack even though I started registration nearly 2 weeks ago.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Jan 14th 2010 at 9:54 pm.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 10:38 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost
Assuming thay you have already started the application process then call Bunac, the forms say that if your ACPO comes back with anything on it then they can offer advice dependant upon the offence and in some cases you just need to supply a letter explaining what happened.

It's definitely worth a phone call, at least then you will know for sure either way and I have had no problem so far when I have called them, despite the fact that I still do not have my welcome pack even though I started registration nearly 2 weeks ago.
Before i visited Canada, i called the high commission and the commonwealth office, i sat calling every single thing imaginable and even called the officers in Canada before i travelled explaining that i have a caution.

I was scared from the beggining just to even go over there and breathe a new air! The paper they give you on the airplane states only conviction where you have been to court, and i didnt because i didnt have too... i was not charged. And by UK law you do not have to state cautions UNLESS asked to do so. Bunac does ask you for it, so you have to put it down, but a visitors visa on the air plane doesn't so you can say no.

At the end of the day i am honest. I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with my ex, and now for defending myself i payed the price. So for next time i know that i should let myself be beaten to death before i ruin any more chances in my life to progress in life. UK laws really do suck...

What i am gonna do is to leave this BUNAC bussiness to one side, and im going to seek legal advice from now on, yes it will be expensive, yes it will take me time. But means that i can go with my case and instead of going there just for a year, i will go there for good.

I know that i want to migrate, just will have to take longer. I will still get my police ACPO to see what the hell it says, because since the 22nd May 2008 i really don't even know if it was a conditional caution or a formal caution, i can't even remember that date very well.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 11:13 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

I honestly think that you may be reading a bit too much into this, because Bunac also act as a bit of an international recruitment agency they are, for want of a better expression, nosey bastards and ACPO have an international duty to include the incident on your report because of an arrangement between the english speaking western countries. An immigration lawyer will most likely only point you in the direction of the Canadian rehabilitation programme which is already covered in some great detail on this forum.

I personally find the whole bunac process slightly ludicrous, especially since my girlfriend is from another YMS country and I have seen the relative ease and inexpense involved with her application as opposed to what we have to go through.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

You're not dealing with UK law. You're dealing with Canadian law. What I mean is that it is how THEY see it, not how the UK sees it. They don't have cautions, hence all the confusion. Having said that, they do recognise the UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

You really do need to calm down about this. It isn't that bad. You have said you want to be honest - and I really think that is the best policy, given your aims to go to Canada as more than a visitor. At worst, it is going to delay your plans, not end them forever.

Get your cert, see what it says and take it from there. As Digital Ghost says, it sounds like there MAY be some discretion on BUNAC that there maybe isn't elsewhere.

Yes, it is frustrating that something you did to defend yourself has resulted in this, but it happens all the time. It may sound harsh, but you need to get over this, deal with it and move on, put it behind you. You obviously have plans and hopes for the future, don't let this grind you down.

I don't think you need a lawyer at this stage either. Get the police cert. It's £35 and takes about 4 weeks roughly. Come back and let us know what it says. There are many people on here doing BUNAC/criminal rehab who can and will help. BTW, you aren't alone in having bashed someone in the heat of the moment and got caught. Some have done it more than once.....
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 11:55 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

Originally Posted by Kaye5
Get the police cert. It's £35 and takes about 4 weeks roughly.
I had better not do, they quoted a ten working day turn around time and I ideally need mine back at some point over the next few days. I sent it to them last Tuesday by Special Delivery but they didn't get it until Friday 'because of the weather'.
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Old Jan 14th 2010, 11:59 pm
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Default Re: Lost of hope

yes, the ten working days is from when they RECEIVE it not from when you send it. Hence me quoting the more realistic timescale of 4 weeks!! Ours took about 3 from us sending it.

Wouldn't bank on a few days though, or did you do the priority application - ours was only the normal service.
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Old Jan 15th 2010, 12:07 am
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Just the normal service but if they send it within 14 days from the date they received it should be fine I think. I already have all of the other paperwork waiting, I just need the certificate before I can send it all off.

So I take it that they usually do take the full 10 days over processing it then? I was hoping that would just be a general ETA to give themselves enough time. I didn't want to go for the expidited service if it was available since I thought the standard £35 charge was still far more than it should be.
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Old Jan 15th 2010, 12:52 am
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Default Re: Lost of hope

Agreed! Our German cert was only EUR13 and came back before the British one, sent for on the same day.

Of course, the cost for the German one rose, with foreign xfer charges and translation.....

I guess it all depends on how many they have to process, but ours did indeed take the full 14 days.

Sorry - hope yours comes back quicker!!
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Old Jan 15th 2010, 12:57 am
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Default Re: Lost of hope

No thanks for clearing that up for me, at least I won't be checking the mail every day with hopeful anticipation when I get home now.

I had a look on a few other forums and it seems as though people were getting them with 5-7 days a year or two ago but the service apparently had a lot more problems back then. Admittedly when I called them last week to chase the delivery they were really friendly and even called me back when they said they would which is a very unusual thing in this country these days.
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Old Jan 15th 2010, 10:06 am
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Default Re: Lost of hope

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost
No thanks for clearing that up for me, at least I won't be checking the mail every day with hopeful anticipation when I get home now.

I had a look on a few other forums and it seems as though people were getting them with 5-7 days a year or two ago but the service apparently had a lot more problems back then. Admittedly when I called them last week to chase the delivery they were really friendly and even called me back when they said they would which is a very unusual thing in this country these days.
Will getting my ACPO "flag" me for future visits?! As its a police thing, or is just a request of forms and thats it. What i mean flagging, as you have to put what country you want this to be for.. You state Canada, i dont want it to flag me for my visits. As both the high commision and the commonwealth have said to me that a caution is fine for visits, but not for permanent or working until either 5 years or WE consider you rehabilitated which they can do that sooner given my circumstances.

And yes i do know i have to move on, my only problem is that i have to go to the past to actually move on to the future and it is really daunting and painful.

And i wont be going thru BUNAC, not this year, this has left a really sour turn on my heart. And yes i may sound a bit over the top. But i have struggled a lot the past 2 years and having this in my mind is actually quite daunting. So im taking slow... Im studying my case and making the best of it. And i sure will be back and let you guys know what my ACPO Cert says.

Can you ask for a the other Cert? the one that is more especific too??? Can't remember the name of it. Clearance!! that one. And if so. Where can i go to do that?!

You guys rock.
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Old Jan 16th 2010, 3:35 am
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Default Re: Lost of hope

The CIC will not see the ACPO results unless you personally send them on, so you will be able to re-enter as a visitor at your leisure regardless.
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