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A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

Old May 19th 2019, 11:17 am
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Default re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

Ugh. Please don't link to Canadavisa threads, that forum is notorious for incorrect info so definitely not a reliable source!

Best thing to do is just wait for the outcome of the ECA, do let us know what it says for others searching the forum in the future.

Good luck.
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Old May 19th 2019, 1:40 pm
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Default re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
Ugh. Please don't link to Canadavisa threads, that forum is notorious for incorrect info so definitely not a reliable source!

Best thing to do is just wait for the outcome of the ECA, do let us know what it says for others searching the forum in the future.

Good luck.
Oh ok, but the information in the thread is pasted off the CIC website so will be correct.
will do for sure, thanks for helping.
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Old May 19th 2019, 1:47 pm
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Default re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

Originally Posted by Addzz120 View Post


Oh ok, but the information in the thread is pasted off the CIC website so will be correct.
will do for sure, thanks for helping.
Sigh. That's the same link that I removed from your earlier post and explained to you that that forum is notorious for giving incorrect information from well meaning people; their understanding is not necessarily the facts - again, please only post official website links or internal BE links when posting to the Immigration Forum.
https://britishexpats.com/forum/immi.../#post12685264
Thank you.
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Old May 19th 2019, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Addzz120 View Post
Oh ok, but the information in the thread is pasted off the CIC website so will be correct.
It's 3 years old though, don't assume it's still correct - things change so often in immigration!

I do agree that it doesn't have to be a post-graduation diploma to count though. Whether or not it will count for points purposes will depend on many factors, not least if it's deemed vocational/professional rather than academic, the subject, if it was entirely classroom based on 'on the job' learning etc. I've certainly never heard of A Levels being assessed as anything other than secondary education.

But all you can do is wait and see what WES say and see if you get given the extra 7/8 points. Are they vital, what are you scoring without them? And when do you lose points due to a birthday?

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Old May 19th 2019, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
It's 3 years old though, don't assume it's still correct - things change so often in immigration!

I do agree that it doesn't have to be a post-graduation diploma to count though. Whether or not it will count for points purposes will depend on many factors, not least if it's deemed vocational/professional rather than academic, the subject, if it was entirely classroom based on 'on the job' learning etc. I've certainly never heard of A Levels being assessed as anything other than secondary education.

But all you can do is wait and see what WES say and see if you get given the extra 7/8 points. Are they vital, what are you scoring without them? And when do you lose points due to a birthday?
The V stands for vocational haha! It was designed to lead into Uni or a job, but the work was all classroom based.
Me neither but so far no one has failed (that have confirmed online) to not get it as post secondary. The BTEC higher national is post secondary and stated as the same as the AVCE here :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTEC_Extended_Diploma

Although equivalent to A levels as it states, it takes multiple A levels to ‘weigh up’ to a BTEC. If you someone did only 1 A-level they would have less than a BTEC or AVCE. Maybe it comes down to that in the assessment, someone may say it’s still A level equivalent some may say it’s deemed as post secondary by definition as it worth more than a single A level. IQAS reject so it seems to be a credential that has ambiguity.

As WES have the history of passing it as a diploma, fingers crossed they have a reference table to look at historically what it’s been assessed as. Even if it’s a diploma i will have to update my EE to see if they will credit the extra CRS points. No one in those threads came back and said CIC didn’t give them the extra and one cited his immigration consultant as confirming it would so i sit on my knees in prayer!

Yes it makes a huge difference, the max CRS i can get is 423 right now which is below the cut off....so basically no canada unless i get lucky with ontario finding me and giving me a PNP. With it i boost to 456 which is a certain ITA as things stand. I have already been deducted 6 CRS for birthday so i can avoid that for 11 months now.
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Old May 19th 2019, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Addzz120 View Post


The V stands for vocational haha! It was designed to lead into Uni or a job, but the work was all classroom based.
Me neither but so far no one has failed (that have confirmed online) to not get it as post secondary. The BTEC higher national is post secondary and stated as the same as the AVCE here :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTEC_Extended_Diploma

Although equivalent to A levels as it states, it takes multiple A levels to ‘weigh up’ to a BTEC. If you someone did only 1 A-level they would have less than a BTEC or AVCE. Maybe it comes down to that in the assessment, someone may say it’s still A level equivalent some may say it’s deemed as post secondary by definition as it worth more than a single A level. IQAS reject so it seems to be a credential that has ambiguity.

As WES have the history of passing it as a diploma, fingers crossed they have a reference table to look at historically what it’s been assessed as. Even if it’s a diploma i will have to update my EE to see if they will credit the extra CRS points. No one in those threads came back and said CIC didn’t give them the extra and one cited his immigration consultant as confirming it would so i sit on my knees in prayer!

Yes it makes a huge difference, the max CRS i can get is 423 right now which is below the cut off....so basically no canada unless i get lucky with ontario finding me and giving me a PNP. With it i boost to 456 which is a certain ITA as things stand. I have already been deducted 6 CRS for birthday so i can avoid that for 11 months now.
How did you calculate any extra 33 points? The difference in points between bachelors degree and 2 more certificates/diplomas is 7 if single and 8 if you have a spouse/partner.
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Old May 19th 2019, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post

How did you calculate any extra 33 points? The difference in points between bachelors degree and 2 more certificates/diplomas is 7 if single and 8 if you have a spouse/partner.
I’m not going off the calculator where you need 67 points to apply for expressed entry. I’m in expressed entry system already as i have over 67 points.

I’m referring to the comprehensive ranking system calculator which is different, this uses ranking system points and on that scale two or more degrees gives those 30 odd extra crs points.

Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool: skilled immigrants (Express Entry)
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Old May 19th 2019, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Addzz120 View Post


I’m not going off the calculator where you need 67 points to apply for expressed entry. I’m in expressed entry system already as i have over 67 points.

I’m referring to the comprehensive ranking system calculator which is different, this uses ranking system points and on that scale two or more degrees gives those 30 odd extra crs points.

Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool: skilled immigrants (Express Entry)
still not sure how you getting that, I am referring to the CRS points system, see the breakdown here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...stem/grid.html

bachelors degree is 112 if single and 120 with spouse

2 or more diplomas/degrees is 119 if single and 128 with spouse

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Old May 19th 2019, 3:18 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post


still not sure how you getting that, I am referring to the CRS points system, see the breakdown here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...stem/grid.html

bachelors degree is 112 if single and 120 with spouse

2 or more diplomas/degrees is 119 if single and 128 with spouse

ah i get you, yes you only get 8 more but because you have two degrees hence more qualified you get extra points for skills transferability factors.... pasted off calculator :

Skill transferability factors

Education

  • A) Official Language proficiency and education = 50
If i have get only my degree then that 50 drops to 25

hence the difference 25 + 8 is your 36 extra crs for two or more degrees.
Put your details in as a single applicant, put degree, then calculate, run it again with two or more...its 36 difference, most of the points are from skills transferability.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

I'm throughly confused about your diploma, as your first post was talking about A Levels being assessed as a diploma, so I've got no idea what you've actually got or are having assessed! Not that it matters, but I'm confused by the A Levels references.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:44 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

Frustrating for you, I'm sure, let's hope that you can get the answer from WES.

I believe the course would have to have been a 1 to 3 year full time course or similar at a College or University to be counted as post-secondary - not at school in 6th form... but I see you did it at school from your other post so WES may not accept it as similar to a L3 certificate/diploma for you. Perhaps the others that you have quoted as obtaining equivalency of a diploma attended college full time to do the course. They may have got them assessed for something other than Immigration - perhaps so they could get into Uni in Canada.. or a job.
Originally Posted by Addzz120 View Post


It’s pretty much the difference between going or not so yep!
Yeah i get your argument. Saying that he did the same course as me and got the diploma. The three other AVCE posts also got diploma through WES and CES, but i don’t know if the other 3 were in the same subject. I would hope and pray the outcome is the same....its suppose to be consistent. I have emailed and asked them but they take forever to reply. Atleast its a good sign he did the same course, it would be confusing if my outcome wasn’t the same with the same credential.

It may be the fact it was a college specific qualification and sixth formers couldn’t do it, thus classed as education beyond high school? I did end up doing it in sixth form but the school had to get permission as it was a college only certificate. Schools were only allowed to offer it as a single award (VCE) it took the school six months to get permission to offer AVCE.
Could you post a breakdown of your CRS points - just in case there are points you are missing out on? What is it you do, how many years of experience.. what's your age, have you worked in Canada.. if you give us the information we might be able to guide you to a other ways to apply to be here. If you are under 31 (35 if Irish ancestry) have you considered applying to the pool for an International Experience Canada 2 year working holiday work permit - it would give you some work experience which may help with points for an Express Entry application or even Provincial Nomination. Is what you do classed as a trade by any chance? The points for FSW Trades Express Entry are lower.. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...ed-trades.html

Use the official CRS Calculator - Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool: skilled immigrants (Express Entry)


Last edited by Siouxie; May 19th 2019 at 4:02 pm.
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Old May 19th 2019, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.??

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Frustrating for you, I'm sure, let's hope that you can get the answer from WES.

I believe the course would have to have been a 1 to 3 year full time course or similar at a College or University to be counted as post-secondary - not at school in 6th form... but I see you did it at school from your other post so WES may not accept it as similar to a L3 certificate/diploma for you. Perhaps the others that you have quoted as obtaining equivalency of a diploma attended college full time to do the course. They may have got them assessed for something other than Immigration - perhaps so they could get into Uni in Canada.. or a job.

Could you post a breakdown of your CRS points - just in case there are points you are missing out on? What is it you do, how many years of experience.. what's your age, have you worked in Canada.. if you give us the information we might be able to guide you to a other ways to apply to be here. If you are under 31 (35 if Irish ancestry) have you considered applying to the pool for an International Experience Canada 2 year working holiday work permit - it would give you some work experience which may help with points for an Express Entry application or even Provincial Nomination. Is what you do classed as a trade by any chance? The points for FSW Trades Express Entry are lower.. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...ed-trades.html

Use the official CRS Calculator - Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool: skilled immigrants (Express Entry)

I get that but the award is still the same and was offered to school and colleges. I don’t know where the others did theirs, but colleges also let us do A-levels. So if institution matters then if someone did A-levels at college could argue theirs were further education. Since we know ‘ordinary’ A-Levels are not accepted as post secondary in all cases. I would logically assume institution may not matter and it is a simple ‘what is it worth’ assessment looking at study hours and unit scores. But hey, it’s a bonus if it comes off, worse case i’ll do a year certificate course, it will soon fly by.

Sadly I’m old now! 34 and employed as a mortgage advisor, 3 years experience in a skill type B in September. Accounting for september and just my degree my crs breakdown is :
  • Age = 83
  • Level of education = 120
  • Study in Canada = undefined
  • Official Languages = 130
    • First Official Language = 130
    • Second Official Language = 0
  • Canadian work experience = 0
Subtotal - Core/Human capital factors = 333

Spouse factors

  • Level of education = 0
  • First Official Languages = 0
  • Canadian work experience = 0
Subtotal - Spouse factors = 0

Skill transferability factors

Education

  • A) Official Language proficiency and education = 25
  • B) Canadian work experience and education = 0
Subtotal = 25

Foreign work experience

  • A) Official Language proficiency and foreign work experience = 50
  • B) Canadian and foreign work experience = 0
Subtotal = 50

Certificate of qualification = 0

Subtotal Skill transferability factors = 75

Comprehensive Ranking System formula

Subtotal Core/Human capital + Spouse factors + Skill transferability= 408

Provincial nomination = 0

Job offer = 0

Study in Canada = 0

Sibling in Canada = 0

French-language skills = 0

Subtotal Additional points = 0

Grand total = 408

My brother is canadian but doesn’t live in canada just yet, if he does it’s 423. My advisor thinks that worse coming to worst if i go live in ontario with him for a bit it could help get a PNP from ontario.
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Old May 19th 2019, 4:32 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
I'm throughly confused about your diploma, as your first post was talking about A Levels being assessed as a diploma, so I've got no idea what you've actually got or are having assessed! Not that it matters, but I'm confused by the A Levels references.
It’s called an AVCE (advanced certificate of education) it was a pilot course from 2000 and discontinued in 2005.
It’s the same as a BTEC college diploma which is post secondary as seen here :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTEC_Extended_Diploma

The difference was AVCE was originally college available only, because it was new people were reluctant to do it. This is why (two years later) they offered it to some schools too to get people on it. It’s worth more than on A-level as that would be one study subject and one A level in two years. This is two years study time giving the equivalent of two A - levels which you then use to access university like you would with BTEC diploma. Same process as a canadian, community college, teo year diploma then university.
So it says it is both consisting of A - levels but it is also equivalent to BTEC which is post secondary....so i hope the ambiguity is why they chose to upgrade it to a diploma. I don’t know.....it’s a mess. 😂

Last edited by Addzz120; May 19th 2019 at 4:34 pm.
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Old May 19th 2019, 4:47 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Addzz120 View Post

So it says it is both consisting of A - levels but it is also equivalent to BTEC which is post secondary....so i hope the ambiguity is why they chose to upgrade it to a diploma. I don’t know.....it’s a mess. 😂
BTECs come in different levels, so what they're equivalent to depends on what you're looking at. BTEC level 3 is equivalent to A levels, so that's secondary (and for what it's worth, Wikipedia says AVCE is that same secondary level, although obviously an equivalizer like WES are the final word on that).

The institution that you did the qualification at doesn't matter (also going back to your earlier remark) - A levels and level 3 BTECs are secondary education, even though some people in Britain do them at sixth form colleges instead of 6th forms at secondary schools. Their equivalent in Canada is high school graduation (which can indeed also be the direct version in Britain - doing an exam in a different building doesn't change the level it's at).
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Old May 19th 2019, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: A-Levels (some) getting assessed by WES as a diploma.

Originally Posted by Vulcanoid View Post
BTECs come in different levels, so what they're equivalent to depends on what you're looking at. BTEC level 3 is equivalent to A levels, so that's secondary (and for what it's worth, Wikipedia says AVCE is that same secondary level, although obviously an equivalizer like WES are the final word on that).

The institution that you did the qualification at doesn't matter (also going back to your earlier remark) - A levels and level 3 BTECs are secondary education, even though some people in Britain do them at sixth form colleges instead of 6th forms at secondary schools. Their equivalent in Canada is high school graduation (which can indeed also be the direct version in Britain - doing an exam in a different building doesn't change the level it's at).
That’s good atleast (on the institution), i always considered it secondary. If you google BTEC ECA assessment i can only find WES considering a diploma (two years) even though it’s level 3 like mine. Then, like mine as well, no examples of failed diploma ECA but five examples of success diploma ECA one of which was my course awarded on the same date as mine. So yes on the level 3 element i remain negative, on the assessment i remain positive. I’d be very nervous if some did and some did not get certified but so far on what the research tells me 100% of those AVCEs scraped by (as did the BTEC level 3s).

I’m resigned mentally to doing a certificate to avoid disappointment. Maybe WES will give a diploma or certificate to any academic subject as long as it’s level 4 or above. Maybe there’s a six month level 4 online course or something, if not a year doing a PGcert isn’t too bad. Who knows i may get a pnp while i do it. However they will cost a couple of grand i imagine 😬 i see no other way in for me other than a second certificate of some kind.

It would be useful to know the lowest qualification that would work. Maybe it’s a HND or PGcert.

Last edited by Addzz120; May 19th 2019 at 5:36 pm.
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