Aviator

You'll notice I did not say 'prevent' , but 'try and reduce', big difference. Parental abduction is a larger issue than abduction from unknown individuals, these mostly are not hardened criminals used to lying and deception. Immigration officials are well versed in recognising the signs when people are nervous and when to ask more questions. It's not fool proof, but anything that helps has to be worth it.

Different nations have different priorities and political agendas, just because one does something and the other doesn't, does not make one more or less right than the other.

So your position is let 'em go for it as well?

The legal system in most countries does not work that well either, just look at the number of repeat offenders and criminals that get off with a caution or 'don't do it again' or sentences that in no way reflect the crime.

Almost Canadian

OK

I fail to see how requesting a letter will "reduce" child abduction either. As I said, they are not that difficult to fake.

If one parent wishes to remove a child from one particular jurisdiction, I fail to see how the requirement of a consent letter will prevent them. However, if you think that such a requirement is appropriate, then who am I to argue with you? I would, however, suggest that it causes more aggravation for parents than it ever resolves. If immigration officials are as well trained as you believe, then just asking parents a question such as "Has the other parent provided you with permission to remove ...." will obtain as suspicious a response as asking them to answer with a piece of paper.

DandNHill

I just thought I'd mention my situation!
I have residency and parental responsibility for my boys. My ex only has parental responsibility.
Because we are going through the motions at the moment i thought it might be a good idea to check the residency order which I'm confident is a standard order which would apply to most parents who are divorced.
As the resident parent, I have been given ongoing permission, by the courts to take my children out of the UK for a period of 1 month without my ex's permission. However, he has to get permission from me to take them out of the country even on a day trip! Not that I've ever enforced this!
I'm not however allowed to move to another country outside of mainland UK without his written permission!
So basically, if you've got an order read it! If not get a letter and do everything properly so that it doesn't come back to bite you in the bottom!!! Or if your ex is nasty you could go to prison for kidnapping! Not a very nice prospect!!!!!

bewillow

This is interesting. Do you have a reference (or better a URL?)?

Thanks!

JAJ

Easier? Perhaps, but there is still the possibility that the official may not like the shape of the signature, etc. Always good to know your rights.

Also, obtaining a "letter" may be impossible if the other parent is disappeared, unknown or in a foreign country.

JAJ

From CIC operating manual:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc.../enf21-eng.pdf

Some extracts:

* "Once an officer is satisfied that an adult or a child is a Canadian citizen, registered Indian or permanent resident, the examination should end and the person be allowed into Canada without further delay ...

... An officer who has concerns about a child’s welfare but no evidence or information to confirm their suspicions should make a referral to customs secondary examination. Customs inspectors have authority to examine and detain persons seeking entry to Canada for specific offences under the Criminal Code, including abduction ... (section 8)


* "The fact that one adult is travelling alone with a child should not in itself warrant a referral to a secondary examination." (section 9.1)

* Officers should be aware that a letter of permission from an absent parent is not required where either of the following documents are presented: a birth certificate listing the father as ‘unknown’ or custody papers indicating that the travelling parent has sole custody. (section 9.3)

* If satisfied that all persons in the group have the right to enter Canada [Canadian Citizen/PR], the officer will authorize entry to Canada and may provide a handout on the OMC program ...

... If concerns about child security exist, a referral to a Customs secondary examination will be made. (section 10.1)

And of relevance to those travelling with children 14 and over:

* A parental abduction occurs when a child under 14 is taken by a parent or guardian without permission or legal authority from the parent or guardian with lawful custody of the child. This applies whether or not there is a formal custody order. (See sections 282 and 283 of the Criminal Code.) (Appendix A)


One should also be aware that the Hague Convention of 25 October 1980 on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction (ie, not a matter of criminal law) does not apply to children aged 16 and 17.
http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act...display&tid=21

Jim Humphries

This has become a most tiresome thread with people seeming feeling that laws are fine so long as they don't in any way inconvenience them.

Aviator

Not wrong there. It has come up countless times before, with similar arguments, often from the same people.

kittsrush

My daughter travelled to Canada with her son this summer without a letter and she also asked when she booked her flight if she needed a letter and they said no. When she arrived in Canada they just asked if she had a letternof permission and she just explained that the father had no involvement with her son and they was happy with that.

bewillow

I disagree. This is a law that often hits people fully in the face when they try to enter into Canada. There is very little clear information on the Canadian government web sites, other than a very badly written sample permission letter.

Typically it is not very useful having a law like this unless you have clear and communicated procedures and expectations. That has not been done.

I have been told by London consulate staff that I definitely should have a letter of permission when travelling with my son into Canada, even though both of us are Canadian citizens. This is at odds with the information JAJ earlier posted.

Aviator

So who's advice to do you follow, the representative of the government that put this porcedure in place or comments from someone on a web forum?

Cannot see what the big deal is with all this and why debate it. It has taken longer to have a debate on this thread than write a letter.

JAJ

Not from me, it's directly from CIC's own manual. Or do you not believe that either?

bewillow

This spring the Canadian consular offices in Europe (and maybe the rest of the world) were giving out seriously incorrect information about the April 17 citizenship law changes. They gave out wrong information about their core business for almost 4 weeks. Did they figure it out because they thought about the information and corrected their mistake? Not without a sharp prod.

I don't trust random web comments either, but many of them provide far better insight than what you get directly from the "representative of the government.". JAJ, PMM are excellent examples of this!

If you are in the simple sitation of sitting next to the person who is to write the letter of permission, then you are very right.

Melsa

I've found some really useful information with regards a letter of consent from the absent parent. The requirements of the Canadian Government for children travelling with alone or with one parent/guardian can be found on: www.voyage.gc.ca/publications/pdf and http://www.voyage.gc.ca/faq/children...yage-eng.asp#1.

It even includes a sample consent letter which can be downloaded. I would get a solicitor to draft and notarize the letter which can be signed by both parents. Hope this helps all applicants in this situation like myself.

Madwife

Just to add to the mix. I was delayed at Vancouver airport, for an hour or so, in 2005 with my children as I did not have a letter of consent. They were not worried about my then 16 yr old girl as she had the same surname as me. My 2 sons aged 11 and 5 did not have my surname and were questioned by immigration officers with me present but not allowed to speak to them.

I did have permission and was on good terms with their father and he was coming out to join us for 5 days in the middle of our trip. He also wanted to see Canada before giving permission for his sons to go there and live! The fact that I gave them the flight number etc of when he was arriving etc seemed to satisfy them. They tried ringing him also, but he did not answer. I could have given them any number though!!!

Last April I travelled again with my youngest son and a letter signed by his Dad and a notary (costing me £25) and they didn't even ask for it!!!

Interestingly enough my elder daughter has no contact with her father and we wouldn't know how to contact him!!! But they were not worried because she had the same surname as me. Work that one out!!

Sarah x