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Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Old Mar 7th 2012, 1:11 pm
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Default Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...og-kenney.html

If the news article is to be believed, Minister Kenney is actually considering legislating the backlog into the bin.

I'd think they'd do better to put their efforts into actually processing the applications instead!
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

It would indeed be nice if they could just process the backlogged cases but they have targets for the number of immigrant cases to be finalized each year and they are only resourced for that amount of work. They have dug a hole (the politicians of both main parties) and getting out of it is going to be very difficult if not impossible without putting a hold on accepting most new applications for processing. The hold would perhaps last a couple of years or more if they go that route. Otherwise it will take years and try the patience of everyone but particularly the applicants.
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 4:11 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

why are the new applications taking less time to process than the older ones?

Surely a target is a target unless the target is based on percentage of applications recieved.

However even then a processed old application still checks a box. So why are they / seem to be ignoring the older ones?
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Hi


Originally Posted by Jim Humphries
It would indeed be nice if they could just process the backlogged cases but they have targets for the number of immigrant cases to be finalized each year and they are only resourced for that amount of work. They have dug a hole (the politicians of both main parties) and getting out of it is going to be very difficult if not impossible without putting a hold on accepting most new applications for processing. The hold would perhaps last a couple of years or more if they go that route. Otherwise it will take years and try the patience of everyone but particularly the applicants.
I like to climb on my hobby horse over the backlog issue. When IRPA was introduced in 2002 the point were set at 75, and the no. of applications qualifying was about equal to the "quota" for skilled workers. The Liberals in Oct/73 decided to lower the points to 67. Guess what happened? The beginning of the backlogs.
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Hi


Originally Posted by mandymoochops
why are the new applications taking less time to process than the older ones?

Surely a target is a target unless the target is based on percentage of applications recieved.

However even then a processed old application still checks a box. So why are they / seem to be ignoring the older ones?
Because the Minister set the priority for the job that are in demand in Canada (supposedly) by creating Ministerial instructions by way of the lists of jobs that qualified. List of 38, of 29. Persons who had experience in those occupations were processed first, and "quota" left over was directed to the backlog.
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Originally Posted by PMM
Hi




Because the Minister set the priority for the job that are in demand in Canada (supposedly) by creating Ministerial instructions by way of the lists of jobs that qualified. List of 38, of 29. Persons who had experience in those occupations were processed first, and "quota" left over was directed to the backlog.
Ok thanks, you can't argue with the theory behind it.
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 4:37 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

ok, ill be posting a fuller response later, however for now.
Scrap the backlog, well you will have to refund those people as if you dont ot will go to court, you will incure costs and have to refund them anyway.
Lets work with round numbers. $1000 fee per application, 300,000 applications to refund after they are scrapped, thats $300M out of the economey before you comsider the legal costs of undertaking the process and then defending the cases brought by individuals.
In real terms i would bet it would take over half a billion dollars to scrap the backlog.
ie it would increase the budget defecit by 10%
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 5:27 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Originally Posted by sdo1982
ok, ill be posting a fuller response later, however for now.
Scrap the backlog, well you will have to refund those people as if you dont ot will go to court, you will incure costs and have to refund them anyway.
Lets work with round numbers. $1000 fee per application, 300,000 applications to refund after they are scrapped, thats $300M out of the economey before you comsider the legal costs of undertaking the process and then defending the cases brought by individuals.
In real terms i would bet it would take over half a billion dollars to scrap the backlog.
ie it would increase the budget defecit by 10%
There have been posts by members on this forum saying that they have actualy been asked by CIC if they wanted to halt their application and recieve a full refund.

I don't know what they do with the application fees for those that haven't yet been processed but it would be a foolish company that a) spends clients money for a job not yet done b) does not have some form of holding account for said funds.

However I do appreciate that my knowledge of the financial workings of government departments, is sparse at it's best.
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 8:40 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

This is quite scary. How much of a real danger is there of 'scrapping' the files of applicants already asked to do medicals??!
Sigh. The anxiety is never-ending.
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Old Mar 7th 2012, 9:14 pm
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

I would not for one minute think that CIC would blanket scrap anything and certainly not ones that are part way through.

I think they are starting to give the option to those (I know of one that applied in 2007) that haven't been looked at , and that have enquired as to how much longer things will take. I stand to be corrected though.

However I suppose if they give you the option, then you are the one that has made the decision to cut any extra losses over and above the refund of the fee.

Edited to add that you have had your fees requested - I think you are worrying unneccesarily, you're at the final hurdle
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Old Mar 8th 2012, 1:49 am
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Originally Posted by Jim Humphries
It would indeed be nice if they could just process the backlogged cases but they have targets for the number of immigrant cases to be finalized each year and they are only resourced for that amount of work. They have dug a hole (the politicians of both main parties) and getting out of it is going to be very difficult if not impossible without putting a hold on accepting most new applications for processing. The hold would perhaps last a couple of years or more if they go that route. Otherwise it will take years and try the patience of everyone but particularly the applicants.
Since their FSW1 intake has been reduced from hundreds of thousands, as a result of the new rules, to less than 20,000 for 2010-2011, and less than 10,000 for 2011-2010, how come they are not able to make these gains on the backlog?

As an older applicant the wait is frustrating, but for my application to just be thrown in the bin is just insulting.

Some of these people have waited 7 years, and if CIC decide to do this, ALL that wait will have been for nothing.

Plus unless the government are very careful they may find themselves in a very shaky legal position.
Wayne.
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Old Mar 8th 2012, 5:55 am
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Originally Posted by PMM
Hi
Because the Minister set the priority for the job that are in demand in Canada (supposedly) by creating Ministerial instructions by way of the lists of jobs that qualified. List of 38, of 29. Persons who had experience in those occupations were processed first, and "quota" left over was directed to the backlog.
Think I've mentioned this before, but IMO rather than having an FSW1 category, it would be better to just have FSW2 - BUT have an LMO/AOE exemption for any job which falls within the current in-demand list.

This will make it easier for immigrants with in-demand skills to secure a job, and we won't have the issue of folks immigrating to Canada with no job to go to.

This combined with a more regular review of the in-demand list so that labour market needs are more accurately mapped, I think would make for a better system.

Wayne.
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Old Mar 8th 2012, 6:04 am
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Originally Posted by sdo1982
ok, ill be posting a fuller response later, however for now.
Scrap the backlog, well you will have to refund those people as if you dont ot will go to court, you will incure costs and have to refund them anyway.
Lets work with round numbers. $1000 fee per application, 300,000 applications to refund after they are scrapped, thats $300M out of the economey before you comsider the legal costs of undertaking the process and then defending the cases brought by individuals.
In real terms i would bet it would take over half a billion dollars to scrap the backlog.
ie it would increase the budget defecit by 10%
Hi yes. I ran similar numbers over at CanadaVisa - I guesstimated $1500 average processing fees (since many are more than 2 people per application), making $450 mil refunds (just shy of half a billion dollars). It would surely make more sense to spend money on extra resource with which to tackle the backlog?

And I am still failing to understand why, despite a MASSIVE reduction in application intake as a result of the recent capping system introduced in June 2010, CIC are still failing to make significant gains into the backlog.


Also I have no idea of the actual Canadian laws surrounding what substitutes a legal contract. But in the UK a legal contract is anything which has an offer, an acceptance and a consideration.

In applying for Canadian residence there is an offer (the invitation to apply), the acceptance (the application) and the consideration (the process fees). Therefore, if Canadian contract law is anything like the UK, there is a legal contract between the applicant and CIC. The applicant has a legal right to be fairly processed, and CIC have a legal duty to processing the application.


If they DO "legislate away" the backlog they'd better do a very good job of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, else they could find themselves in a sticky lawsuit situation which could be far more costly than refunding the processing fees.

My 2 cents,
Wayne.
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Old Mar 8th 2012, 6:46 am
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Hi


Originally Posted by Waggle
Hi yes. I ran similar numbers over at CanadaVisa - I guesstimated $1500 average processing fees (since many are more than 2 people per application), making $450 mil refunds (just shy of half a billion dollars). It would surely make more sense to spend money on extra resource with which to tackle the backlog?

And I am still failing to understand why, despite a MASSIVE reduction in application intake as a result of the recent capping system introduced in June 2010, CIC are still failing to make significant gains into the backlog.


Also I have no idea of the actual Canadian laws surrounding what substitutes a legal contract. But in the UK a legal contract is anything which has an offer, an acceptance and a consideration.

In applying for Canadian residence there is an offer (the invitation to apply), the acceptance (the application) and the consideration (the process fees). Therefore, if Canadian contract law is anything like the UK, there is a legal contract between the applicant and CIC. The applicant has a legal right to be fairly processed, and CIC have a legal duty to processing the application.


If they DO "legislate away" the backlog they'd better do a very good job of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, else they could find themselves in a sticky lawsuit situation which could be far more costly than refunding the processing fees.

My 2 cents,
Wayne.

1. Why throw extra resources at the Backlog, since total Immigration Quota for 2012 is 260,000. The following is the breakdown for non Family Class.

Skilled workers 47,000-47,400
Business Class 9,000-10,000
CEC 6,000- 7,000
LIC 12,000-16,000
Quebec 32,800-33,900
Quebec Business 1,800- 2,000
PNP 42,000-45,000

Do you really think that say over 4/5 years Canada could absorb an extra 450K of Immigrants? To process that many, you would have to increase VO staffing by about 5 times, @ 200K per officer per year (salary benefits) with the additional costs of support staff and somewhere for these people to work.

Remember the backlog only had to demonstrate 1 year of experience in any A, B or O NOC and their language ability was not tested, but self reported by claiming their work/schooling/language at home was English/French.
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Old Mar 8th 2012, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Kenney on about scrapping the backlog....

Originally Posted by mandymoochops
I would not for one minute think that CIC would blanket scrap anything and certainly not ones that are part way through.

I think they are starting to give the option to those (I know of one that applied in 2007) that haven't been looked at , and that have enquired as to how much longer things will take. I stand to be corrected though.

However I suppose if they give you the option, then you are the one that has made the decision to cut any extra losses over and above the refund of the fee.

Edited to add that you have had your fees requested - I think you are worrying unneccesarily, you're at the final hurdle
Thanks for that!
See what Canadian immigration has reduced us to? Scared wrecks of previously quite sane people.
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