Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Just had our med requests today, yippee! :thumbsup: However, a fly in the ointment....

I know a lot of people have asked about this, as I was one of them, and I thought this would help clarify CIC London's view of it.

My OH has a non-accompanying dependant daughter who is 15, lives with her mother (who is since remarried) and he has minimal contact (a few times a year), she is refusing to participate in the medical with her mothers full support. We have done notarized letters stating she will have to qualify on her own merits should she wish to come to Canada in the future and her mother has written a rather poison letter also confirming she refuses to her her undertake the medical. Today we got this letter....

"Thank you for the additional information regarding your non-accompanying dependant. However, the information provided is not sufficient to exclude (daughter) from your application. (Daughter) is not unavailable for examination; it is evident that you know her whereabouts and can communicate with both her and her mother, and have also been able to provide photographs of her which are necessary in order to issue medical instructions enclosed with this letter. The information you have provided also does not demonstrate that you have no parental responsibility for (daughter). It appears that there may have been a misunderstanding about the requirements and this in turn is causing confusion and also needless anxiety and delay. If we have contributed to the confusion and misunderstanding by not having made our requirements sufficiently clear in wither our published information or previous correspondence, then we sincerely regret than.

Canadian immigration law requires that all dependants of a principal applicant be examined for admissibility to Canada -- whether or not that are accompanying the principal applicant to Canada now or intend or not to join him in Canada in the future. The examination of non-accompanying dependants at the time of a principal applicant's application places absolutely no obligation or expectation on them to live in Canada at any time in the future, but it is a requirement that the principal applicant must fulfill as part of his application.

Regarding the examination of minor-age dependant children, the situation often arises that an applicant may not have close contact with children from a previous relationship and seeks to exclude them from an application for permanent residence. This can be done only if the children have legally been placed exclusively in the custody of another person and the applicant has lost all parental responsibility for them. We understand that under United Kingdom family law, if no specific direction is made by a court regarding custody of minor children, then both parents retain parental responsibility for their children after a divorce, whether or not the children subsequently reside exclusively with only one parent.

Unless you have a legal decision clearly removing your parental responsibility from your dependant-age children, then they all must be examined as part of your application for permanent residence -- whether they are accompanying you to Canada or not. If you have such a legal document, then please provide it for our consideration. If you are unclear about your status regarding your parental responsibility, you may wish to obtain independent legal advice."

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

I'm afraid I haven't got anything useful to suggest but this is very useful info for anyone whose children under the age of 22, that are still dependant, just don't want to go.

My son wants to go fortunately, but has suggested that because of his juvenile convictions, that we just take him off the application to be on the safe side. It isn't that simple I tell him...... He will have to be considered for admissibility and if considered admissible, then take the medical, whether he wants to go or not.

I wonder what you will do now? Is there anyway that the daughter will take the medical so that you can go? Or is there spite involved too.....

Good luck

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Unfortunately Robin there is spite involved as in many of these cases, even after SO many years when everyone is suppose to have moved on :(

Having read many of the posts on here we were pretty assured that all we would need was the understanding of all parties involved to agree that she would have to apply in her own right in the future and relenquished all rights to come as part of our family unit.

As we only received it this morning I think all we can do is scan the letter and send her a copy stating there is no other option, as she has stated in her letter to CIC that she does not wish to affect our application. I think she is worried that the daughter might decide to come with us, even though she has little contact with her natural father and has never even met me and our 2 boys! It's not going to happen but she won't even give us a photocopy of her passport. We only have 60 days to do it too :ohmy:

My own personal advice to others would be just tell them they are estranged and you have no way of getting in touch. Because we were trying to comply and provided some of the information they asked for, they are now insisting on us providing the lot! We only got a birth certificate because we went to the records office... sometimes you can be too helpful!

I thought the letter was useful and will hopefully benefit others in the same position.

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

It seems to me you have 3 options:

Apply to a Court for removal of parental responsibility, explaining full reasons why and exhibiting correspondence passing between OH, daughter and OH's ex (OH may now need to lay the groundwork by sending self-serving letters to daugher and ex);
Defer your application until daughter is no longer dependent; or
Apply to daughter's and ex's compassionate side.

None of the above are particularly appealing.

Wishing you the best of luck:thumbsup:

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

I remember someone saying just that (pretty much) only last week. Perhaps they'll come back on it.

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Thanks, I wonder how long a Court Order would take? The 60 day letter does say you can extend it beyond the 60 days but you must let them know of they'll close your file. :eek:

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Your scenario is a situation I could very well find myself in during the coming months. Not so much my daughter being anti the idea of taking the medical, but my ex wife will very much be the 'fly in the ointment'. She hasn't been approached yet, but having been married to her for fourteen years, I fairly well know her and have a fair idea of the expected response. As you rightly say, spite very often is a factor in these matters. :rolleyes:

It's a horrible situation you are in and to be honest, I haven't any constructive suggestions as to how you proceed. I deeply sympathise with your situation though.

My only observations: The regulations as they stand seriously suck and really need reviewing as they are far too rigid. I fully understand the reasons that were explained on a similar thread recently, but surely with todays technology, 'forgotten family members' are going to get found out pretty quick should they ever try to emigrate to Canada at a later date?

I was always under the impression a notarized letter was sufficient enough for any applicants who had medical refusnik offspring? It even says as much on the guidance notes as I remember? Has the officer who wrote to you maybe defined the regulations incorrectly? Is there any course of appeal?

There's folk on here who will be way more qualified than myself to make observations I'm sure, but that's my two cents worth.

Good luck! :)

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Hi Castra,

They've stated in their letter, "It appears that there may have been a misunderstanding about the requirements and this in turn is causing confusion and also needless anxiety and delay. If we have contributed to the confusion and misunderstanding by not having made our requirements sufficiently clear in wither our published information or previous correspondence, then we sincerely regret than." So it looks like they will stick to their guns so I'm not sure there's a chance of appeal and I would have no idea how to even start one off!

I too understood the application as being if you provided a notarized letter then you didnt have to, we did this and it's made no difference. I think by providing some of the information and the fact that OH's ex also wrote a letter I think maybe CIC are making a point, which is basically my OH still has parental responsibility and clearly there has been dialog and as a parent he has a right to his minor-age child, as at the end of the day she still is a minor. Now the reality of this is that the ex will make it impossible for him to have access to her to take her to a medical.

Good luck with your forthcoming request, hope yours goes more smoothly than ours appears to be ! :fingerscrossed:

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

If an ex-parte application was made there is no reason why it couldn't be heard well within 60 days. In fact, an on notice application can usually be heard within 3 weeks. Whether a judge would be prepared to grant such an order at the first hearing is debatable.

As I said, I would send a self serving letter to the ex indicating that such an application will be made and that, while he does not wish to go down that route, in light of the daughter's/ex's unreasonable stance, he will be left with no other opportunity. Express that, the reason for seeking the removal of parental responsibility has nothing to do with an intention to fail to meet the financial obligations, nor will it affect how your OH feels about his daughter, it is simply required to enable you to do what is best for the two (or more if you have other children) of you and is a direct result of the position adopted by the daughter and the ex.

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

This is not good.

I have recently sent in the paper work for myself and my husband. He has two children, 16 & 18, who live with their mother and we have not detailed then on the main application form (IMM0008), just on the additional family info form (IMM5406) and provided a non-accompanying family members declaration letter. We have provide no detail about them, eg birth certificates, school details, police checks etc

Now worried.

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Hi, we did exactly the same, just detailed her as non-accompanying. CIC started with the 90 day letter, could we please provide copy birth certificate and photos and a reason why she was not on the main application and not able to do the medical. We got OH's ex to write letter but we dutifully supplied what we could for the rest, except the mother refused to give us a copy of her passport so we put n/a. I think if CIC think there is reasonable contact they will make you pursue it.

Are your OH's kids not willing to undergo the medical either then? Are they still in full time education? because if not then I dont think they are classed as dependant and therefore wouldn't need a medical.

Would be interesting to hear if anyone has got PR without their non-accompanying dependants undergoing a medical. Anyone out there???

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

Please follow the link below and read what it says on Page 13 of the OP 2 instructions to Immigration Officers.(Para 5.12) (OP 6 Instructions to Immigration Officers re Federal Skilled Workers refers you to OP 2)

I have put a link on the bottom to full document

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...p/op02-eng.pdf

I am in a similar situation and am interested in the 'common sense and good judgement' it talks about


Hope it helps :)

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

I have a similar situation but my kids are older and would be willing to take the medicals but being teenagers easier said than done. However back in 2007 was a different story and we were worried about the possibility of ex being a pain and stopping kids from taking Meds. This an answer I got from a member of another forum at that time. I do stress this was their own experience and it was back in "2007"

Thanks Dave.


Hi Dave
>
>Thanks for getting in touch. Hopefully we will be able to get some
>answers for you.
>
>I can answer the question about dependents taking medicals even if they
>are not accompanying you from a personal experience. My husband and I
>emigrated to Canada ourselves and he has two children from a previous
>marriage. They were in their late teens when we went through the
>process and were not accompanying us.
>
>At the time we received our medical requests it was for all four of us,
>however, like you, my husband did not want to go through the issues of
>having to ask them to have medicals etc. We wrote to CIC stating that
>they would not be accompanying us and that they were not willing to
>have medicals. CIC wrote back to us stating that if we put a letter
>together stating that we would never have the children living with us,
>nor would we ever sponsor them they would waiver their medicals. This
>letter had to be sworn in by a notary. We replied that this would not
>be a problem and they replied with a pre- worded letter stating the
>afore mentioned things. My husband had to sign this in-front of a
>solicitor who also signed and sealed it.
>
>We then took our own medicals and this was never a problem. We know of
>others who have done similar. Hopefully you will be able to do this
>too. By the way, this has not stopped his daughters from visiting us in
>any way.

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

I believe that the problem is that (god forbid) should anything happen to a childs parent whos other parent has a legal right to the child then the surviving parent becomes responsible. If you are in Canada then the child would legally need to be brought to Canada or you to leave, hence the reason all children need to have the medical and apply with the sponsor. Even if the child has no intention of moving to Canada
To get around this then I see no other option than to go and give up the right as parent!
Does this make sense?
If the ex is still bitter then sell it to them as I will get out of your life for ever scenario. It is unfortunate for any children involved, irrespective of their age.

Re: Important clarification about Non-accompanying Dependant Child
 

From the following document checklist:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/E37023.pdf

So why do they ask you submit this then ask for all the info anyway...:confused: