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If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

Old Oct 19th 2002, 3:52 pm
  #1  
Zorro
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

To all the experts here

If an applicant scores 75 points or above (under the Skilled Worker
category), will he definitely be able to get the PR (barring inadmissibility
problems) ?

Have there been cases of applicants being rejected even though they had
scored 75 points or more and were not inadmissible ?

Thank you in anticipation.
 
Old Oct 19th 2002, 4:28 pm
  #2  
Andrew Miller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

No, scoring 75 points (or better) is not a guarantee for PR visa at all, even
if there is no medical, criminal or security inadmissibility. But reaching or
exceeding pass mark provides pretty good base for building a strong case.

Here is what Regulations say:

------------------------------------------------------------
Section 76

Circumstances for officer's substituted evaluation

(3) Whether or not the skilled worker has been awarded the minimum number of
required points, an officer may substitute for the criteria set out in
subsection (1) their evaluation of the likelihood of the ability of the skilled
worker to become economically established in Canada if the number of points
awarded is not a sufficient indicator of whether the skilled worker may become
economically established in Canada.
------------------------------------------------------------

So, if processing officer determines (with consent of second officer) that
applicant has no chance or ability to become economically established in Canada
regardless number of points scored then application may be refused.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.-
liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

________________________________


"zorro" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
g
...
    > To all the experts here
    > If an applicant scores 75 points or above (under the Skilled Worker
    > category), will he definitely be able to get the PR (barring inadmissibility
    > problems) ?
    > Have there been cases of applicants being rejected even though they had
    > scored 75 points or more and were not inadmissible ?
    > Thank you in anticipation.
 
Old Oct 19th 2002, 7:27 pm
  #3  
xng
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 105
xng is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

This does not make sense. First of all, it is definitely NOT easy to reach 75 for skilled workers. If selection is based on subjective decision, can we appeal against it ? How long does it take.
xng is offline  
Old Oct 19th 2002, 7:49 pm
  #4  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 741
bighead is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

the loop exists for an evaluating officer to use descretion against the favour of the applicant, but such descretion would most likely be used with very very careful consideration, and under very specific circumstances...

the design of the selection system itself is based on the premise that points be awarded in situations where there would be an economic benifit to canada by the applicant becoming a permanent resident of canada, so the reasons for overturning the points obtained in the different factors, and negative descretion being applied would need to be very strong.. (a guy with a post graduate degree in manufacture of bamboo housing for instance)...

all this providing ofcourse, that the applicant meets all the other requirements (such as funds for example), has clean medical and security records, and is not inadmissable on other grounds etc...

Originally posted by xng:
This does not make sense. First of all, it is definitely NOT easy to reach 75 for skilled workers. If selection is based on subjective decision, can we appeal against it ? How long does it take.

Last edited by bighead; Oct 19th 2002 at 7:54 pm.
bighead is offline  
Old Oct 20th 2002, 5:02 am
  #5  
Andrew Miller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

You can appeal (file the motion for judicial review) only if decision was made
in error in law.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.-
liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

________________________________


"xng" wrote in message
news:449110.1035098828@britishexpats-
.com
...
    > This does not make sense. First of all, it is definitely NOT easy to
    > reach 75 for skilled workers. If selection is based on subjective
    > decision, can we appeal against it ? How long does it take.
    > --
 
Old Oct 20th 2002, 6:11 am
  #6  
Zorro
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

Thanks Mr Miller.

I think Canada PR is like a distant dream.

Why has it become so difficult to get the CA PR these days? Just a few
years ago, my programmers (who are much less qualified than me) and my
colleagues were able to get the CA PR without any difficulty. Guess the
economy of CA is not too good now, and they don't really need so many PRs
competing with the locals for the limited jobs available.

I hope my Australian PR application will be successful.



"Andrew Miller" wrote in message
news:Shqs9.27719$Sk6.23510-
[email protected]
...
    > No, scoring 75 points (or better) is not a guarantee for PR visa at all,
even
    > if there is no medical, criminal or security inadmissibility. But reaching
or
    > exceeding pass mark provides pretty good base for building a strong case.
    > Here is what Regulations say:
    > ------------------------------------------------------------
    > Section 76
    > Circumstances for officer's substituted evaluation
    > (3) Whether or not the skilled worker has been awarded the minimum number
of
    > required points, an officer may substitute for the criteria set out in
    > subsection (1) their evaluation of the likelihood of the ability of the
skilled
    > worker to become economically established in Canada if the number of
points
    > awarded is not a sufficient indicator of whether the skilled worker may
become
    > economically established in Canada.
    > ------------------------------------------------------------
    > So, if processing officer determines (with consent of second officer) that
    > applicant has no chance or ability to become economically established in
Canada
    > regardless number of points scored then application may be refused.
    > --
    > ../..
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > http://members.yaho-
    > o.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > ________________________________
    > "zorro" wrote in message
    > [url="news:[email protected]"]news:[email protected][-
    > /url]...
    > > To all the experts here
    > >
    > > If an applicant scores 75 points or above (under the Skilled Worker
    > > category), will he definitely be able to get the PR (barring
inadmissibility
    > > problems) ?
    > >
    > > Have there been cases of applicants being rejected even though they had
    > > scored 75 points or more and were not inadmissible ?
    > >
    > > Thank you in anticipation.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
 
Old Oct 20th 2002, 6:42 am
  #7  
Andrew Miller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

Why? Several reasons - but most important is that there are 5 to 7+ times more
applicants than Canada can take in each year.

As for programmers - note that IT bubble is gone, so what was few years ago
isn't anymore, anywhere in the world. In addition Canada is now swamped by IT
professionals who in late 90's were granted H1 visas in US and now when they
are laid off, thus have no chance for Green Card and all of them applied for
Canadian PR. Buffalo was processing about 20,000 applications a year under
normal circumstances - now they have more than 200,000 just from H1 visa
holders.

Canada's population is 10 times smaller than US one, thus economy and job
market is also 10 times smaller. So, if American employers are laying off IT
professionals by hundreds of thousands Canadian ones are doing the same but by
tens of thousands. Now imagine - Canadian employers laid off 15,000 to 25,000
IT professionals as economy cannot sustain them and at the same time 200,000+
laid off H1 visa holders in US are applying for Canadian PR status hoping to
stay in North America. And who will give them jobs?

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.-
liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

________________________________


"zorro" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks Mr Miller.
    > I think Canada PR is like a distant dream.
    > Why has it become so difficult to get the CA PR these days? Just a few
    > years ago, my programmers (who are much less qualified than me) and my
    > colleagues were able to get the CA PR without any difficulty. Guess the
    > economy of CA is not too good now, and they don't really need so many PRs
    > competing with the locals for the limited jobs available.
    > I hope my Australian PR application will be successful.
    > "Andrew Miller" wrote in message
    > news:Shqs9.27719$Sk6.235-
    > [email protected]
    ...
    > > No, scoring 75 points (or better) is not a guarantee for PR visa at all,
    > even
    > > if there is no medical, criminal or security inadmissibility. But reaching
    > or
    > > exceeding pass mark provides pretty good base for building a strong case.
    > >
    > > Here is what Regulations say:
    > >
    > > ------------------------------------------------------------
    > > Section 76
    > >
    > > Circumstances for officer's substituted evaluation
    > >
    > > (3) Whether or not the skilled worker has been awarded the minimum number
    > of
    > > required points, an officer may substitute for the criteria set out in
    > > subsection (1) their evaluation of the likelihood of the ability of the
    > skilled
    > > worker to become economically established in Canada if the number of
    > points
    > > awarded is not a sufficient indicator of whether the skilled worker may
    > become
    > > economically established in Canada.
    > > ------------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    > > So, if processing officer determines (with consent of second officer) that
    > > applicant has no chance or ability to become economically established in
    > Canada
    > > regardless number of points scored then application may be refused.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ../..
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller
    > > Immigration Consultant
    > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > email: [email protected]
    > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > >
    > > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > >
    > > http://members.ya-
    > > hoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > > "zorro" wrote in message
    > > [url="news:[email protected]"]news:[email protected][/-
    > > url]...
    > > > To all the experts here
    > > >
    > > > If an applicant scores 75 points or above (under the Skilled Worker
    > > > category), will he definitely be able to get the PR (barring
    > inadmissibility
    > > > problems) ?
    > > >
    > > > Have there been cases of applicants being rejected even though they had
    > > > scored 75 points or more and were not inadmissible ?
    > > >
    > > > Thank you in anticipation.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
 
Old Oct 20th 2002, 12:20 pm
  #8  
Jaj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

Andrew
One wonders if 'IT professionals' will go on the CIC blacklist of
professions when they get it up and running, together with doctors and
lawyers.

Jeremy


    >On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:42:25 GMT, "Andrew Miller" wrote:
    >Why? Several reasons - but most important is that there are 5 to 7+ times more
    >applicants than Canada can take in each year.
    >As for programmers - note that IT bubble is gone, so what was few years ago
    >isn't anymore, anywhere in the world. In addition Canada is now swamped by IT
    >professionals who in late 90's were granted H1 visas in US and now when they
    >are laid off, thus have no chance for Green Card and all of them applied for
    >Canadian PR. Buffalo was processing about 20,000 applications a year under
    >normal circumstances - now they have more than 200,000 just from H1 visa
    >holders.
    >Canada's population is 10 times smaller than US one, thus economy and job
    >market is also 10 times smaller. So, if American employers are laying off IT
    >professionals by hundreds of thousands Canadian ones are doing the same but by
    >tens of thousands. Now imagine - Canadian employers laid off 15,000 to 25,000
    >IT professionals as economy cannot sustain them and at the same time 200,000+
    >laid off H1 visa holders in US are applying for Canadian PR status hoping to
    >stay in North America. And who will give them jobs?
    >--
    >../..
    >Andrew Miller
    >Immigration Consultant
    >Vancouver, British Columbia
    >email: [email protected]
    >(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    >For confidential phone consultation go here:
    >http://members.yahoo-
    >.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    >________________________________
    >"zorro" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Thanks Mr Miller.
    >> I think Canada PR is like a distant dream.
 
Old Oct 20th 2002, 12:43 pm
  #9  
Andrew Miller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

I don't think so - there is no lobby or other body (labour union, association,
etc.) fighting for protectionism like in the case of doctors or even nurses
(sic!).

But they may easier then others be assessed (negatively) using discretion.
Processing officers will assess their credentials, experience and possible
abilities to adapt/retrain and then decision will be made on the basis of
likelihood of establishment in Canada.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.-
liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

________________________________


"JAJ" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
c.net.au
...
    > Andrew
    > One wonders if 'IT professionals' will go on the CIC blacklist of
    > professions when they get it up and running, together with doctors and
    > lawyers.
    > Jeremy
    > >On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:42:25 GMT, "Andrew Miller"
wrote:
    > >Why? Several reasons - but most important is that there are 5 to 7+ times
more
    > >applicants than Canada can take in each year.
    > >
    > >As for programmers - note that IT bubble is gone, so what was few years ago
    > >isn't anymore, anywhere in the world. In addition Canada is now swamped by
IT
    > >professionals who in late 90's were granted H1 visas in US and now when they
    > >are laid off, thus have no chance for Green Card and all of them applied for
    > >Canadian PR. Buffalo was processing about 20,000 applications a year under
    > >normal circumstances - now they have more than 200,000 just from H1 visa
    > >holders.
    > >
    > >Canada's population is 10 times smaller than US one, thus economy and job
    > >market is also 10 times smaller. So, if American employers are laying off IT
    > >professionals by hundreds of thousands Canadian ones are doing the same but
by
    > >tens of thousands. Now imagine - Canadian employers laid off 15,000 to
25,000
    > >IT professionals as economy cannot sustain them and at the same time
200,000+
    > >laid off H1 visa holders in US are applying for Canadian PR status hoping to
    > >stay in North America. And who will give them jobs?
    > >
    > >--
    > >
    > >../..
    > >
    > >Andrew Miller
    > >Immigration Consultant
    > >Vancouver, British Columbia
    > >email: [email protected]
    > >(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > >
    > >For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > >
    > >http://members.yah-
    > >oo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > >________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > >"zorro" wrote in message
    > >[url="news:[email protected]"]news:[email protected][/-
    > >url]...
    > >> Thanks Mr Miller.
    > >>
    > >> I think Canada PR is like a distant dream.
    > >>
 
Old Oct 20th 2002, 12:45 pm
  #10  
Andrew Miller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

P.S.

Jeremy, remember that most of IT professionals who flooded Canadian visa posts
(especially Buffalo) after IT bubble burst can't get 75 points anyway...

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.-
liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

________________________________


"JAJ" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
c.net.au
...
    > Andrew
    > One wonders if 'IT professionals' will go on the CIC blacklist of
    > professions when they get it up and running, together with doctors and
    > lawyers.
    > Jeremy
    > >On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:42:25 GMT, "Andrew Miller"
wrote:
    > >Why? Several reasons - but most important is that there are 5 to 7+ times
more
    > >applicants than Canada can take in each year.
    > >
    > >As for programmers - note that IT bubble is gone, so what was few years ago
    > >isn't anymore, anywhere in the world. In addition Canada is now swamped by
IT
    > >professionals who in late 90's were granted H1 visas in US and now when they
    > >are laid off, thus have no chance for Green Card and all of them applied for
    > >Canadian PR. Buffalo was processing about 20,000 applications a year under
    > >normal circumstances - now they have more than 200,000 just from H1 visa
    > >holders.
    > >
    > >Canada's population is 10 times smaller than US one, thus economy and job
    > >market is also 10 times smaller. So, if American employers are laying off IT
    > >professionals by hundreds of thousands Canadian ones are doing the same but
by
    > >tens of thousands. Now imagine - Canadian employers laid off 15,000 to
25,000
    > >IT professionals as economy cannot sustain them and at the same time
200,000+
    > >laid off H1 visa holders in US are applying for Canadian PR status hoping to
    > >stay in North America. And who will give them jobs?
    > >
    > >--
    > >
    > >../..
    > >
    > >Andrew Miller
    > >Immigration Consultant
    > >Vancouver, British Columbia
    > >email: [email protected]
    > >(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > >
    > >For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > >
    > >http://members.yah-
    > >oo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > >________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > >"zorro" wrote in message
    > >[url="news:[email protected]"]news:[email protected][/-
    > >url]...
    > >> Thanks Mr Miller.
    > >>
    > >> I think Canada PR is like a distant dream.
    > >>
 
Old Oct 20th 2002, 7:20 pm
  #11  
The Wizzard
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

Also remember IT is a very broad term covering a huge range of jobs and
skills. While it may true that for IT professionals involved in the
internet, web, programming etc there is a slump in demand other areas arent
as badly affected and computers are found almost everywhere now so there is
always demand for people with IT skills even though some of the specialist
areas are now no longer as popular.


"Andrew Miller" wrote in message
news:h6Is9.28653$Sk6.25489-
[email protected]
...
    > P.S.
    > Jeremy, remember that most of IT professionals who flooded Canadian visa
posts
    > (especially Buffalo) after IT bubble burst can't get 75 points anyway...
    > --
    > ../..
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > http://members.yaho-
    > o.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > ________________________________
 
Old Oct 21st 2002, 1:06 am
  #12  
pkjmet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If you score 75 points, will you definitely get the PR?

"Andrew Miller" wrote in message news:...
    > P.S.
    > Jeremy, remember that most of IT professionals who flooded Canadian visa posts
    > (especially Buffalo) after IT bubble burst can't get 75 points anyway...
    > --
    > ../..
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > http://members.yaho-
    > o.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > ________________________________
    > "JAJ" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > fic.net.au
    ...
    > > Andrew
    > > One wonders if 'IT professionals' will go on the CIC blacklist of
    > > professions when they get it up and running, together with doctors and
    > > lawyers.
    > >
    > > Jeremy
    > >
    > >
    > > >On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:42:25 GMT, "Andrew Miller"
    > wrote:
    > > >Why? Several reasons - but most important is that there are 5 to 7+ times
    > more
    > > >applicants than Canada can take in each year.
    > > >
    > > >As for programmers - note that IT bubble is gone, so what was few years ago
    > > >isn't anymore, anywhere in the world. In addition Canada is now swamped by
    > IT
    > > >professionals who in late 90's were granted H1 visas in US and now when they
    > > >are laid off, thus have no chance for Green Card and all of them applied for
    > > >Canadian PR. Buffalo was processing about 20,000 applications a year under
    > > >normal circumstances - now they have more than 200,000 just from H1 visa
    > > >holders.
    > > >
    > > >Canada's population is 10 times smaller than US one, thus economy and job
    > > >market is also 10 times smaller. So, if American employers are laying off IT
    > > >professionals by hundreds of thousands Canadian ones are doing the same but
    > by
    > > >tens of thousands. Now imagine - Canadian employers laid off 15,000 to
    > 25,000
    > > >IT professionals as economy cannot sustain them and at the same time
    > 200,000+
    > > >laid off H1 visa holders in US are applying for Canadian PR status hoping to
    > > >stay in North America. And who will give them jobs?
    > > >
    > > >--
    > > >
    > > >../..
    > > >
    > > >Andrew Miller
    > > >Immigration Consultant
    > > >Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > >email: [email protected]
    > > >(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > > >
    > > >For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > > >
    > > >http://members.y-
    > > >ahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada

    > > >________________________________
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >"zorro" wrote in message
    > > >[url="news:[email protected]"]news:[email protected][/ur-
    > > >l]...
    > > >> Thanks Mr Miller.
    > > >>
    > > >> I think Canada PR is like a distant dream.
    > > >>
    > >

You can seek Judical Review for errors in law and in addition for
Procedural Fairness.

Jim Metcalfe
 

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