Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada > Immigration & Citizenship (Canada)
Reload this Page >

How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL students

How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL students

Old Aug 15th 2003, 4:19 pm
  #16  
Neil Raines
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

Massey's reputation is mainly in agriculture and veterinary science. Their
Business School has never been rated highly. But even some of the most
famous universities has some departments that are weaker than others.

    > >
    > > Perhaps, but I think the three top Universities in New Zealand are
    > > Auckland, Otago, and Massey. I happen to think Otago and Auckland are
    > > pretty much top equal, and but that in some areas Massey does have the
    > > edge.
    > If Massey is one of the top three I would hate to see what the bottom
    > three are like. I was unlikely enough to work in Massey's College of
    > Business from 1999-2002. It was a complete joke. The reason they are
    > the biggest business school in the country is that they have standards
    > so low as to be nonexistent. Their only goal is to maximize efts
    > (enrolment). In research, their economics department is continually
    > ranked last in New Zealand (see the last couple of rankings in New
    > Zealand Economics Papers) and that was considered one of the more
    > productive departments in the College of Business. I have worked in
    > universities in three countries and I don't think the worst university
    > in the other two counties would have been as bad as Massey.
    > > ... Poly's are still
    > > for people who were not acdemic enough to make it at a Uni.
    > People like that can also go to Massey.
 
Old Aug 15th 2003, 7:53 pm
  #17  
Back Again
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

[email protected] (Derek) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Subject: Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to
    > Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL students that would have gone to the
    > USA, but can't due to the recent changes in the US -- where you have
    > to present yourself at the US Consulate From: [email protected]
    > (Derek) Newsgroups:
    > misc.immigration.australia+nz,misc.immigration.can ada,rec.travel.austra
    > lia+nz,soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.canada,s oc.culture.new-zealan
    > d
    >
    > back again <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>. ..
    >> "Neil Raines" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >> Perhaps, but I think the three top Universities in New Zealand are
    >> Auckland, Otago, and Massey. I happen to think Otago and Auckland are
    >> pretty much top equal, and but that in some areas Massey does have
    >> the edge.
    >
    > If Massey is one of the top three I would hate to see what the bottom
    > three are like. I was unlikely enough to work in Massey's College of
    > Business from 1999-2002.


As I said, "in some areas". As someone else has already pointed out, for
example, in agriculture and veterinary sciences.

I don't have any personal experience how how well their business courses
are, and so I can't comment on that.
 
Old Aug 18th 2003, 3:05 am
  #18  
Derek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

"Neil Raines" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Massey's reputation is mainly in agriculture and veterinary science. Their
    > Business School has never been rated highly.

Given that they have the only veterinary school in NZ, I am willing to
believe that Massey is the best veterinary school in NZ (at the same
time they would also have to be the worse). Indeed given that it did
manage to get U.S. accreditation a couple of years ago, it can't to
too bad. During the last repositioning they laid off a lot of the
people in the agricultural areas. Nonetheless, given that the only
competition they have in that area is Lincoln, I am willing to believe
that Massey is one of the top two post-secondary institutions in NZ in
that area.
 
Old Aug 18th 2003, 8:27 pm
  #19  
Neil Raines
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

A University's reputation is based on how its graduates perform, and the
number of papers published in international journals. The US accreditation
is probably a better indication of Massey's standing than whether it is
1,2,or 6 in NZ.

    > > Massey's reputation is mainly in agriculture and veterinary science.
Their
    > > Business School has never been rated highly.
    > Given that they have the only veterinary school in NZ, I am willing to
    > believe that Massey is the best veterinary school in NZ (at the same
    > time they would also have to be the worse). Indeed given that it did
    > manage to get U.S. accreditation a couple of years ago, it can't to
    > too bad. During the last repositioning they laid off a lot of the
    > people in the agricultural areas. Nonetheless, given that the only
    > competition they have in that area is Lincoln, I am willing to believe
    > that Massey is one of the top two post-secondary institutions in NZ in
    > that area.
 
Old Aug 18th 2003, 8:47 pm
  #20  
Brian Harmer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:27:54 +1200, "Neil Raines" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >A University's reputation is based on how its graduates perform, and the
    >number of papers published in international journals. The US accreditation
    >is probably a better indication of Massey's standing than whether it is
    >1,2,or 6 in NZ.
    >> > Massey's reputation is mainly in agriculture and veterinary science.
    >Their
    >> > Business School has never been rated highly.

They are apparently on their way to AACSB candidacy and that is not
given away with cornflake packages. See
http://www.aacsb.edu/accreditation/c.../candidacy.asp
 
Old Aug 19th 2003, 6:15 am
  #21  
Derek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

"Neil Raines" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > A University's reputation is based on how its graduates perform, and the
    > number of papers published in international journals.

Yes and as far as research in concerned, their economics department is
ranked 7 out of 7 in NZ (for some reason AUT is not included in the
rankings). Most of the "referred" publications of the marketing
department are in their own on-line journal. Neither the school of
business or the education faculty have any significant research
outputs.

The US accreditation
    > is probably a better indication of Massey's standing than whether it is
    > 1,2,or 6 in NZ.

I believe that any vet school in North America would automatically
have that accreditation or it would not be allowed to offer degrees. I
agree that the vet accreditation does indicate that the vet school has
reached some minimum level of standards lacking in the rest of the
instruction but one faculty does not make a university.
 
Old Aug 19th 2003, 6:40 am
  #22  
Derek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

Brian Harmer <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:27:54 +1200, "Neil Raines" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >A University's reputation is based on how its graduates perform, and the
    > >number of papers published in international journals. The US accreditation
    > >is probably a better indication of Massey's standing than whether it is
    > >1,2,or 6 in NZ.
    > >
    > >> > Massey's reputation is mainly in agriculture and veterinary science.
    > Their
    > >> > Business School has never been rated highly.
    >
    > They are apparently on their way to AACSB candidacy and that is not
    > given away with cornflake packages.

Actually, it is not very hard to get as you can tell by looking at
some of the places that have accreditation. Indeed I have looked at
the list and Massey is only place I have either worked at or studied
at that both had a business school and one that was not accredited. I
first became aware of AACSB accreditation when I was on the job market
as small American places I had never heard of would make a big deal
about AACSB accreditation (for some reason it tends to be small
schools that put economics departments in their business schools, a
negative thing in my opinion). I think that was just to get job
candidates to take them more seriously. Nonetheless, Massey is the
only place I have every heard of to make a big deal about CANDANCY.
The university I am at now does have a business school. It is not a
top ranked business school by any North American standards.
Nonetheless, I have never seen them bother to mention their
accreditation even though I see that they are listed as accredited.

In any event candidacy does not mean accreditation. I think the PVC
(a fancy name they us for deans at Massey) who started the process
wanted an initiative to add to his c.v. as he was clearly on the job
market at the time (he left shortly afterwards).
 
Old Aug 19th 2003, 12:06 pm
  #23  
Brian Harmer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

On 19 Aug 2003 11:40:54 -0700, [email protected] (Derek) wrote:

    >Brian Harmer <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>>
    >> They are apparently on their way to AACSB candidacy and that is not
    >> given away with cornflake packages.

    >Actually, it is not very hard to get as you can tell by looking at
    >some of the places that have accreditation. Indeed I have looked at
    >the list and Massey is only place I have either worked at or studied
    >at that both had a business school and one that was not accredited. I
    >first became aware of AACSB accreditation when I was on the job market
    >as small American places I had never heard of would make a big deal
    >about AACSB accreditation (for some reason it tends to be small
    >schools that put economics departments in their business schools, a
    >negative thing in my opinion). I think that was just to get job
    >candidates to take them more seriously. Nonetheless, Massey is the
    >only place I have every heard of to make a big deal about CANDANCY.
    >The university I am at now does have a business school. It is not a
    >top ranked business school by any North American standards.
    >Nonetheless, I have never seen them bother to mention their
    >accreditation even though I see that they are listed as accredited.

    >In any event candidacy does not mean accreditation. I think the PVC
    >(a fancy name they us for deans at Massey) who started the process
    >wanted an initiative to add to his c.v. as he was clearly on the job
    >market at the time (he left shortly afterwards).

I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe that your attitude
to Massey is based on an honest belief that they have inferior
standards. but rather that it itbased upon the circumstances of your
separation from them (whatever they might be).

My own position is not unbiased either. As the holder of a
postgraduate degree from Massey's business school, I hold them in
reasonably high regard. As a competitor, I have to prefer the
offerings of Victoria but that's a different issue. I think Massey do
a great deal that is right.
 
Old Aug 19th 2003, 1:10 pm
  #24  
Derek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

"Brian Harmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My own position is not unbiased either. As the holder of a
    > postgraduate degree from Massey's business school, I hold them in
    > reasonably high regard.

I was not aware that Massey's business school had any legitimate graduate
degrees but I am. When I first got there I was supposed to teach a
"graduate" microeconomics course (which in any institution besides Massey
would be a required course for any graduate program in economics).
Mistakenly assuming that it would be similar to what would be offered in
North America, I picked a standard graduate textbook and started with a math
review. I then found that I had students that did not even have high school
calculus! They would never have received an undergraduate economics degree
in Canada much less be accepted into any graduate program! Indeed, the only
course (or papers, to use NZ English) I currently teach that does not have
a first-year calculus prerequisite is first-year economics. At Massey their
position was that they needed eftes (or whatever the term for bums on seats
was) and accepted anyone. They then argued that if they accepted students
they had a obligation to see them through! In the staff club (what they
called the faculty club) we used to try to see who had the most unbelievable
story. The amazing thing was that I generally found that the noneconomic
majors in my classes at Massey were even worse so I would hate to know what
the other departments were like.

Other programs seemed even worse. A friend who was teaching in the MBA
program told me that he had one student with no undergraduate degree. When
he made enquires he found out that having an undergraduate degree was not a
hard and fast requirement for admission. Admittedly, even in North America
an MBA is not a rigorous degree. Still, here even MBA programs have
standards (indeed, admission is often pretty competitive).

If you check some of the web pages at Massey you will find that many
departments hire their own students (indeed except for a couple that
returned to institutions in third world countries, I don't thing their
economics department ever managed to produce a so called "PhD" graduate that
ever got a job elsewhere). I realize that down under they don't have the
same stigma against hiring their ownthat North American universities have.
Still, even down under I think that that too much of that would be
considered a very bad sign.
.
As a competitor, I have to prefer the
    > offerings of Victoria but that's a different issue.

I realize that academic freedom is not as strong there. Nonetheless, here
you should be under no obligation to state you prefer the programs of the
university you work for. However, Victoria's economics department is ranked
higher than Massey (if I recall correctly it is in the top three for
research but I don't have the rankings in front of me so I could be wrong).

I think Massey do
    > a great deal that is right.

I would be interested to know what. I will likely not have a chance to
check this newsgroup for a day or so, so feel free to take your time in
trying to think of something. I have given you examples of why I think it
is a joke and if you talk privately (some are afraid to speak openly) to
faculty members who have legitimate graduate degrees (you note that I am
excluding those with Massey degrees when I say this) in the economics
department you will hear much the same thing. Mention my name if you want.
 
Old Aug 19th 2003, 1:40 pm
  #25  
Derek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

    > I was not aware that Massey's business school had any legitimate graduate
    > degrees but I am.

Hi Brain,

I forgot to finish the above sentence. I was going to say that I am willing
to believe that you studied in the one business department (whatever that
might be) that had a legitimate degree.

BTW, if you look at the universities that have been accredited on the link
you posted you will see that many of the top schools don't bother getting
accredited. You will not see Harvard Business school or the University of
Western Ontario listed but you will see plenty of schools listed that you
have likely never heard of.
 
Old Aug 19th 2003, 11:54 pm
  #26  
Ppp
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

    > My own position is not unbiased either. As the holder of a
    > postgraduate degree from Massey's business school, I hold them in
    > reasonably high regard. As a competitor, I have to prefer the
    > offerings of Victoria but that's a different issue. I think Massey do
    > a great deal that is right.

Well, well, well, a postgraduate "degree" from Massey's business school. Why
doesn't this come as any surprise?
 
Old Aug 27th 2003, 1:13 am
  #27  
eka3sg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not perusing the ESL stude

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 13:46:52 -0700, "http://CBC.am/"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >How many billions of CAD / NZD / AUD will be lost due to Canada / ANZ not
    >perusing the ESL students that would have gone to the USA, but can't due to
    >the recent changes in the US -- where you have to present yourself at the US
    >Consulate
    >or Embassy?
    >US Consulates and Embassies are not equipped, and will not be equipped for
    >some years for tens of thousands of people seeking ESL education.
    >There are several categories that have been added to the mandatory US visa
    >queues, and ESL students will probably not get preference (as opposed to biz
    >folk).
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.