horrible experiece

Old Feb 4th 2003, 9:29 pm
  #1  
Sam
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Default horrible experiece

I've landed since three months in quebec and the least I can say is
that you have to be a superman to get a job (I'm in IT) if you dont
have a "local" diploma.
employerswont even look at your CV if you did not study here, so my
advice to all of you intending to work here, even if you should never
saythat to an officer, when you first come here, get ready to
"validate" your knowlwdge with a local diploma. It's an uphill battle
and very hard on your self esteem.
two rules to learn.

1- ) a local diploma, even from the least recognized institution here
is way better than what you have studied elsewhere (I was in one of
the best universties in germany)

2- ) get ready to be rejected a lot because you dont have "canadian
epxeriece" as if coding Java or sql in canada is way tougher than in
europe of somewhere else.


3- )don't dream about strating where you left (where you were),
you'lll start at the bottom.

culturally speaking and without prejudices, I do believe now that the
english speaking are a bit "more open" that the quebequers (no pun
intended, I speak perfect french.)

4- )never give up, getting your immigration paper and PR card are the
beginning, it gets tougher afterward

Welcome to the read world.
 
Old Feb 5th 2003, 3:04 am
  #2  
Ashley Watson
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Default Re: horrible experiece

    > I've landed since three months in quebec

It's clear that you are perfectly bilingual and despite the fact the
small mistake you made above. If English was your first language you
would have said
'I landed in Quebec three months ago'. Its a mistake I make now
because I speak French so often despite the fact I'm an anglophone.

    >
    > 1- ) a local diploma, even from the least recognized institution here
    > is way better than what you have studied elsewhere (I was in one of
    > the best universties in germany)

Ich verstehe ihr problem.
    >
    > 2- ) get ready to be rejected a lot because you dont have "canadian
    > epxeriece" as if coding Java or sql in canada is way tougher than in
    > europe of somewhere else.
    >
I have Canadian work experience now but still get rejected. Its tough
I know but hang in there. I live in Quebec City and they are funny
about Montrealers even. I have been out of work for 6 months now and
it is very frustrating at timesw ith good days and bad days, but I
consider all part of my personal development and it will make me a
stronger person.
    >
    > 3- )don't dream about strating where you left (where you were),
    > you'lll start at the bottom.
Not totally true, my first job was more senior and earning more money
than I earnt before. However for the most part this is something you
have to accept when you are an immigrant. Its just harder if you are
an immigrant from a Western country. I certainally have learnt
humility
    >
    > culturally speaking and without prejudices, I do believe now that the
    > english speaking are a bit "more open" that the quebequers (no pun
    > intended, I speak perfect french.)

Cant agree sorry, I find the anglo's in Montreal more uptight than the
English themselves. It's like they have a stick stuck up their rear
end. It's just Quebecers (especially those outside Montreal) are not
really used to people from outside the Province let alone another
country. They need time to get used to people, like many other places
really.

    >
    > 4- )never give up, getting your immigration paper and PR card are the
    > beginning, it gets tougher afterward
    >
    > Welcome to the read world.

Good Luck I'm sure you will find something soon.

Tschüs

Ashley Watson
 
Old Feb 5th 2003, 3:40 am
  #3  
xng
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Posts: 105
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Default Re: horrible experiece

Did the employers tell you the reasons for rejecting you or did you assume these are the reasons for the job refusals ?

As far as I know, employers do not tell the applicants the real reasons for rejecting them in my country.
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Old Feb 5th 2003, 9:33 am
  #4  
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May I know why you moved to Canada from Germany. Isn't Germany a nice place to live in?
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Old Feb 5th 2003, 8:30 pm
  #5  
Mk
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Default Re: horrible experiece

"sbasak" wrote


    > May I know why you moved to Canada from Germany. Isn't Germany a nice
    > place to live in?


Germany is a relatively rich, boring and half-mad country
with a maddening past, anxious present and gray future.
 
Old Feb 6th 2003, 3:13 am
  #6  
Diane Burgess
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Default Re: horrible experiece

I know its hard to get a job here in Canada...I am being sponsored from
my husband its been 3 years and Im still waiting to be landed Im
approved but not landed yet.....For 3 years my husband been suporting my
son and I and then 2 years ago he been suporting my daughter cause we
had a baby together...so now that Im approved I got a resume ALL my work
experienced was in the states and took them EVERYWHERE I gave out like
40 resumes and ONLY 2 called me and the 2 is Tim Hortons 1 of them my
husband works at wendys and they know my husband the other one is
because I sent my resume BOTH of them interviewed me and they both
wanted to hire me.....I took the one close by because of my
family....What I am trying to say is if you need to work 2 jobs to make
your living do so you and when you have all the experience you can go
get the job you are looking for....I just hope you understand what I am
trying to say
 
Old Feb 6th 2003, 7:55 am
  #7  
Bodza Bodza
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Default Re: horrible experiece

[email protected] (sam) wrote:
    > I can say is
    > that you have to be a superman to get a job (I'm in IT)

Well, the problem is nothing to do with having a Canadian diploma, the
problem is that there is an I.T. recession and a glut of I.T. workers.
Even if you were a Canadian it would be hard, for you it is that much
harder.

Take the positive side (if you can): Canada has given you a gift which
is *permanent residence*. You can do anything you want in the country.
You can work at any job. If you manage to survive there for three
years you can apply for citizenship.

When you think about that, you have to say WOW!

It is hard thinking well Canada sucks if I can't get a job but you
have to take it in context: If you had immigrated to the USA then you
would have had to get an H1B temporary visa (through a job offer) or
if you were not an EU citizen and you immigrated to the UK you would
have had to get a job offer and a work permit sponsored by the
company, likewise in Germany the "green card" is only a work permit
for one company.

What has happened is that you have applied to be accepted as a new
*Canadian* and Canada has said "yes, we would like you to be a
Canadian" and have given you unconditional access.

The hard part is surviving and adapting. It would be the same if you
had moved to any other country.

You have to make the choice it is basically do you want to live in
Canada and be a Canadian? If yes, then you hang in there and do
whatever it takes to survive. Look for other jobs besides jobs in I.T.

I came from the UK in 1994 and didn't get a job in I.T. till 1996. In
the meantime I was a commission only headhunter. It was brutal but
after a year or so I got to know enough people and I built up a circle
of friends. That helped me get me feet on the ground. Subsequently
things went awry in 2001 and I decided it was best to leave but I am
already a Canadian citizen.

Now here's the take: I want to come back because when you have a
decent job the lifestyle is more enjoyable in Canada than it is where
I come from (although the working conditions are worse: hardly any
vacations).

But I have no illusions: I don't expect to come back and be handed a
good job on a platter. I am pretty sure I will have to start again at
the bottom of the pile. And it will be harder this time since I have a
wife and two small sons.

Nevertheless, when I have enough cash ready I will make the leap.
Why? Because to me it's worth it.

Your call.
 
Old Feb 6th 2003, 8:18 pm
  #8  
Am
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Default Re: horrible experiece

Looking for a job in Calgary was a traumatic experience for me. I was
looking for any office job & all my work experience had been in London.
Some people did call me when they got my CV because they all seemed to
assume I meant London, Ontario! I didn't even know there was such a place!
Once upon a time an agency arranged for me a 2 week vacation cover before
calling me for a further interview, during which I was asked for more
details about my previous jobs. The consultant seemed taken aback & said
'Oh my God' when I told her 'not Ontario, England'. I really wanted to say:
'hey, London, England is much more important than Calgary, not to mention
the city of the same name in Ontario, it's not like I was working in
Timbuktu'.

I just wasn't prepared to work for $6/hr in Tim Hortons, Wendys or
McDonald's, so I came back after 6 months. I was used to the fact that you
could go to an agency today & start working the next day like I did when I
came back, or being sent somewhere just for the day & ending up staying for
years, that's how I had got all my previous jobs, never with a proper
interview, just went temping, made a good impression & they offered me a
job. In Calgary I registered with 25 agencies, distributed 100s of copies
of my CV & attended 15 interviews, that is more in 6 months than in my
entire lifetime!

"Diane Burgess" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I know its hard to get a job here in Canada...I am being sponsored from
    > my husband its been 3 years and Im still waiting to be landed Im
    > approved but not landed yet.....For 3 years my husband been suporting my
    > son and I and then 2 years ago he been suporting my daughter cause we
    > had a baby together...so now that Im approved I got a resume ALL my work
    > experienced was in the states and took them EVERYWHERE I gave out like
    > 40 resumes and ONLY 2 called me and the 2 is Tim Hortons 1 of them my
    > husband works at wendys and they know my husband the other one is
    > because I sent my resume BOTH of them interviewed me and they both
    > wanted to hire me.....I took the one close by because of my
    > family....What I am trying to say is if you need to work 2 jobs to make
    > your living do so you and when you have all the experience you can go
    > get the job you are looking for....I just hope you understand what I am
    > trying to say




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Old Feb 7th 2003, 8:25 am
  #9  
Bodza Bodza
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Default Re: horrible experiece

[email protected] (Diane Burgess) wrote:
    > What I am trying to say is if you need to work 2 jobs to make
    > your living do so you and when you have all the experience you can go
    > get the job you are looking for....I just hope you understand what I am
    > trying to say

You're 100% right. What a lot of people fail to realize is that they
aren't coming to Canada to work in their chosen field, they're coming
to Canada to *live there* and *become Canadian*. If you have to sweep
the streets to get by then do it. The poster who said he wouldn't work
for $6/hour doesn't get it.
You do what it takes to survive and you keep trying till you get
ahead. If it is so hard then how come there are so many companies who
have foreigners in executive positions. I'd hazard a guess and say
every second company I worked at had either an American or a Brit as a
director, and every *single* company I worked at had foreigners
working there.

What's happening right now is that there is a recession in many
sectors and only a couple of sectors are still keeping the economy
afloat.

It's a lot harder if you come from a "priviledged" background than if
you've had to struggle in your own country. Where I came from
(Glasgow, UK) is always *SHIT* for finding jobs, so I stuck it out in
Canada because it was no worse than where I came from. Eventually,
after two years I got back on my feet and I never looked back. I can
give Canada many thanks because I got a lot of experience which helped
me get a job *here* while the economy is down in Canada and I will be
able to go back when things get better.


You've got to take the positive out of it: Canada gives you permanent
residence which means they have accepted you to be a new Canadian
effectively on the spot. That is truly amazing. Once you get to Canada
it is up to you to survive, no special privileges. I know that when I
come back, even though I am a Canadian I will have no privileges.

Anyways, good luck.
 
Old Feb 7th 2003, 10:35 pm
  #10  
Am
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Default Re: horrible experiece

    > You're 100% right. What a lot of people fail to realize is that they
    > aren't coming to Canada to work in their chosen field, they're coming
    > to Canada to *live there* and *become Canadian*. If you have to sweep
    > the streets to get by then do it. The poster who said he wouldn't work
    > for $6/hour doesn't get it.

Immigration policy & employers' attittudes are 2 entirely different things.
Canada was indeed very generous in the 90s when visas were easy to get,
maybe that's why they changed their law recently, because a lot of people
who got visas couldn't find suitable jobs.

    > You do what it takes to survive and you keep trying till you get
    > ahead. If it is so hard then how come there are so many companies who
    > have foreigners in executive positions. I'd hazard a guess and say
    > every second company I worked at had either an American or a Brit as a
    > director, and every *single* company I worked at had foreigners
    > working there.

Most of those foreign executives would have been transferred by the
companies they were working for.

    > What's happening right now is that there is a recession in many
    > sectors and only a couple of sectors are still keeping the economy
    > afloat.

I wasn't referring to what's happening 'right now', this was back in '96.

    > It's a lot harder if you come from a "priviledged" background than if
    > you've had to struggle in your own country. Where I came from
    > (Glasgow, UK) is always *SHIT* for finding jobs, so I stuck it out in
    > Canada because it was no worse than where I came from.

Precisely, but it was much worse than what I was used to, and from the posts
I have seen it still is.

    > Eventually, after two years I got back on my feet and I never looked back.
I can
    > give Canada many thanks because I got a lot of experience which helped
    > me get a job *here* while the economy is down in Canada and I will be
    > able to go back when things get better.

So you're also back in the UK despite everything you say about Canada...

    > You've got to take the positive out of it: Canada gives you permanent
    > residence which means they have accepted you to be a new Canadian
    > effectively on the spot. That is truly amazing. Once you get to Canada
    > it is up to you to survive, no special privileges. I know that when I
    > come back, even though I am a Canadian I will have no privileges.

Not a matter of privileges, just opportunities...

    > Anyways, good luck.




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Old Feb 10th 2003, 9:50 am
  #11  
Bodza Bodza
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"AM" wrote:

    > > It's a lot harder if you come from a "priviledged" background than if
    > > you've had to struggle in your own country. Where I came from
    > > (Glasgow, UK) is always *SHIT* for finding jobs, so I stuck it out in
    > > Canada because it was no worse than where I came from.
    >
    > Precisely, but it was much worse than what I was used to, and from the posts
    > I have seen it still is.

I agree, and it is obviously much harder to adjust that is why if you
come from somewhere like London you have to be really sure you want to
risk losing what you already have. I remember myself when I went down
to London after leaving university in 1989 I got a job with a temp
agency the same day I got down there. I only had 500 quid in my pocket
and nowhere to stay. When I think about it, I was nuts, but it was
easy. But I didn't like London then, I was too young to handle the
massive change of such a powerful and imposing city. But it was easy
to get started down there. It wasn't anywhere near that easy when I
went to Canada in 1994 with $7000 in my pocket and landing only to
discover the job I had set up didn't exist any longer. I ended up
working commission only as a headhunter and living in a room in a
house full of Chinese immigrants (From whom I learned how to save
money and to appreciate the taste of ramen noodles). It really sucked
for two years but I didn't have anything to lose so I stuck it out. It
worked out for me then I screwed it up for myself by taking on too
many finanical commitments I couldn't handle when the bubble burst.
Although if I could've predicted the bubble I would never have taken
on these commitments.

    > So you're also back in the UK despite everything you say about Canada...

This doesn't make sense. I'm in the UK because I *have to be* not
because I want to be. Whatever people on this newsgroup say, it is
cheaper to live here than it is in Canada. But you have to cut your
lifestyle back. There is a certain limit below which you cannot go in
Canada to save money. E.g. There are no 50p roll-and-gammon sandwiches
for Lunch in Canada. You cannot have *both* cheap rent and access to
public transport in Canada. In the UK you can do this, or I should say
in Glasgow you can do this. But don't get me wrong: Glasgow is a
*shithole* but you can subsist and save money. I am here *only* until
I can restructure my finances enough to be able to handle a lower
salary in Canada without going bankrupt. It's working so far. With a
little more effort I will be back.

In any case I don't say that Canada is any paradise, it's not: I also
say a lot of bad things about Canada.
Canada *sucks* right now for finding work in I.T. and that is even
considering that I *know* how to find work. We are comparing a
recession in Canada to a non-recession in the UK. Quite clearly this
is going to favour the UK. In normal times when both are in the same
part of the economic cycle, I'd *much* prefer to be in Canada. But
bear in mind that London has it's attractions too, not least of which
is the ability to find work and proximity to continental Europe.

    > > You've got to take the positive out of it: Canada gives you permanent
    > > residence which means they have accepted you to be a new Canadian
    > > effectively on the spot. That is truly amazing. Once you get to Canada
    > > it is up to you to survive, no special privileges. I know that when I
    > > come back, even though I am a Canadian I will have no privileges.
    >
    > Not a matter of privileges, just opportunities...

Not even that. I have no illusions that I will be handed a job on a
platter. I will have to bust my balls looking just like everyone else.
Don't forget that there is the possibility that my "Canadian
Experience" will be wiped out by going back to the UK for a couple of
years. Believe me, I don't think it is going to be easy, and I plan to
take at least a couple years worth of expenses with me before I go
back. The *only* two advantages I have are that I already know how
things work and that I don't have any immigration hassles. Although
that remains to be seen.
 
Old Feb 10th 2003, 6:26 pm
  #12  
Mike Noirca
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Default Re: horrible experiece

Hi there

my experience of being British trying to get work in Montreal was
pretty painful as well. It took me 18 months to get a decent job and
even my job now is not in my original field of telecoms (10 years
experience)

Many jobs i went for in Montreal advertised 'no french needed, english
working environment' and then when i get to the interview, they say
'oh you don't speak french' or i had a number of interview that
actually asked me whether i was a canadian citizen. When i said 'no,
landed immigrant' the reply was 'oh, we are really looking for
canadian citizens'. I believe they cannot ask these questions but then
who cares??

The 'Canadian Work Experience' was the most stupidest thing i have
ever heard. What, so Canadian fax machines and office workers
communicate differently? Oh, sorry you have never open up a drawer on
a canadian desk before or used a 'canadian' version of microsoft
windows.

Yeah Yeah Yeah, I know I can go back to my own country if i don't like
it, but then thats just a global excuse for people to ignore the
problems on their doorstep. Is it any different to saying 'go back to
you own country' to someone who is a canadian citizen, but who is
black?? just because they are culturally different, doesn't mean they
should have less rights to complain or object about how they are being
treated.

ciao

Mike
 
Old Feb 20th 2003, 10:37 am
  #13  
Bodza Bodza
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[email protected] (Mike Noirca) wrote:
    > The 'Canadian Work Experience' was the most stupidest thing i have
    > ever heard. What, so Canadian fax machines and office workers
    > communicate differently? Oh, sorry you have never open up a drawer on
    > a canadian desk before or used a 'canadian' version of microsoft
    > windows.

You're right but you're making an assumption that isn't necessarily
the case.
(i.e. that the employers will accept your experience as *real*).
Look at the employers point of view: He/she sees a CV with
"experience" on it. But foreign. If it is a hassle to phone Russia,
China, India, Middle East, South America, Europe to check references
then they will view foreign experience as a bit suspect. I can tell
you this: I was a headhunter in Toronto for two years and I went for a
few pints with some of my applicants. I personally didn't care as long
as the applicants could talk a good game and get placed, but it would
surprise you to hear how many of them bullshitted on their CVs. Now if
you take that into account and look at what employer's response is: In
the good times they accept foreign experience at face value but will
pay you *less* until you either ***** up and get fired or prove
yourself. In the bad times, they don't want to even take the risk of
paying someone for three months probation even if it's a low amount in
case they get fired, when they have ample supply of Canadians whose
experience and references they can *easily* check.

So instead of deducing that they think Canadian experience is
different (It isn't, it's *verifiable*) you should figure out a way to
have them *believe* your experience.

To summarize: What it comes down to is the hassle factor. How much
hassle will they go to to hire someone in bad times?
 

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