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heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Old Apr 7th 2004, 1:53 pm
  #31  
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Posts: 262
Ashok is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

If we look into past , it is indeed around 50,000 skilled PA's coming to Canada. When this figure became 80,000 prompting CIC to lower the pass marks!!! I could not get any reference.




Originally posted by Ravi
"Ashok" <member18804@british_expats.com> wrote in message

    >>> Last summer, officials were predicting 80,000
    > skilled workers would come to Canada â€â€? about 43,000 below the target.
    > In August, Coderre was told "corrective measures" were needed to meet
    > the target.

For an umpteenth time.... this prediction of 80,000 immigrants were based on
less than 50,000 applications received and for an unspecified future
timeframe, not for year 2003.

    > A number of options were considered but lowering the pass
    > mark was seen as the only way the department was going to meet its
    > targets. On Sept. 18, Coderre lowered the pass mark to 67, down from 75.
    > <<<
    > This reduction in 80,000 to 43000 in year 2003 has nothing to do
    > with new pont system. All these arrivals are from old point system and a
    > huge number of applications are still pending to be assessed on old
    > point system.

Exactly, number of newcomers in 2003 has nothing to do with that article.

    > How can this observation lead to tweaking of new point
    > sytem to 67 point from 75 point.

As I already pointed out before, they need at least 55,000 APPROVED
applicants to meet the quota (goal). If they continue to receive less than
50,000 applications (fresh, NOT approved), there is no friggin way they will
be able to meet ammigration quota in future.

    > From this it is clear, an unrelated
    > cause and effect has been used to justify lowering of pass marks.
Ashok is offline  
Old Apr 7th 2004, 2:41 pm
  #32  
Bhishma
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Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Its only the lengthy timelines that make us impatient and lead us to
various hypotheses and unneccesary blood-boiling-as to who should do
what when and how!!. Yeah, its natural... its human.
But,let us not forget that we are finding fault with a system of a
country we have voluntarily chosen to immigrate. Those guys have not
come to our door step to invite us. We have opted for a better
life...and thus in all fairnrss they are at liberty to decide what
should go on in their house. And if we think that they are fooling
around with us by changing rules, please drop the idea of going. No
one is forcing you and me..and then, if you are still keen on
immigrating to Canada, then please be one of them. After all they are
the ones who would adopt you in their house and probably give you a
better life.
Bhishma.
 
Old Apr 7th 2004, 2:59 pm
  #33  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 262
Ashok is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Ravi

Toronto star is talking about 80,000 skilled workers.
Whereas you are talking about 80,000 immigrants.

There is a difference between the two. You are making a wrong comparison.



Originally posted by Ravi
"Ashok" <member18804@british_expats.com> wrote in message

    >>> Last summer, officials were predicting 80,000
    > skilled workers would come to Canada â€â€? about 43,000 below the target.
    > In August, Coderre was told "corrective measures" were needed to meet
    > the target.

For an umpteenth time.... this prediction of 80,000 immigrants were based on
less than 50,000 applications received and for an unspecified future
timeframe, not for year 2003.

    > A number of options were considered but lowering the pass
    > mark was seen as the only way the department was going to meet its
    > targets. On Sept. 18, Coderre lowered the pass mark to 67, down from 75.
    > <<<
    > This reduction in 80,000 to 43000 in year 2003 has nothing to do
    > with new pont system. All these arrivals are from old point system and a
    > huge number of applications are still pending to be assessed on old
    > point system.

Exactly, number of newcomers in 2003 has nothing to do with that article.

    > How can this observation lead to tweaking of new point
    > sytem to 67 point from 75 point.

As I already pointed out before, they need at least 55,000 APPROVED
applicants to meet the quota (goal). If they continue to receive less than
50,000 applications (fresh, NOT approved), there is no friggin way they will
be able to meet ammigration quota in future.

    > From this it is clear, an unrelated
    > cause and effect has been used to justify lowering of pass marks.
Ashok is offline  
Old Apr 7th 2004, 3:40 pm
  #34  
Andrew Miller
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Good point Bhishma.

As many (including myself) were always stating - Canadian immigration law is
designed to serve needs of Canada, not to serve needs or desires of
immigrants. Fact that Canada needs immigrants (the long term goal is that 1%
of population will come from immigration each year) doesn't mean that Canada
will or must take everyone who applies. We were all (applicants as well as
immigration practitioners) complaining about long delays and huge backlogs
caused by old law which wasn't flexible enough to keep pace with rapidly
changing market conditions. Many immigrants complained about not being able
to find job in their field for years after landing - because old system
didn't keep pace with changing markets and those with no chances for
establishment shouldn't be approved in the first place. Approval did them
more harm then good.

Floating and applied retroactively pass mark was intended as a tool to
manage quality and occupational profiles of immigrants as well as to keep
processing times in check (goal is to achieve processing times under 12
months as standard). This fall we should be able to see how 67 points pass
mark affected processing times and backlog - if CIC determines that number
of applications in process is substantially larger than needed to achieve
annual goal then expect higher pass mark to be implemented to filter in only
the number of immigrants needed and to eliminate (at least to try) any
accumulation of backlog. Brutal, but again - it is to serve needs of Canada,
needs that change as fast as market conditions change. Sooner everyone
understands it sooner we won't need to have this discussion over and over
again. And yes - we had this discussion in this forum already at least 4
times (every 5-6 months or so) since current law was introduced.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Bhishma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Its only the lengthy timelines that make us impatient and lead us to
    > various hypotheses and unneccesary blood-boiling-as to who should do
    > what when and how!!. Yeah, its natural... its human.
    > But,let us not forget that we are finding fault with a system of a
    > country we have voluntarily chosen to immigrate. Those guys have not
    > come to our door step to invite us. We have opted for a better
    > life...and thus in all fairnrss they are at liberty to decide what
    > should go on in their house. And if we think that they are fooling
    > around with us by changing rules, please drop the idea of going. No
    > one is forcing you and me..and then, if you are still keen on
    > immigrating to Canada, then please be one of them. After all they are
    > the ones who would adopt you in their house and probably give you a
    > better life.
    > Bhishma.
 
Old Apr 7th 2004, 5:47 pm
  #35  
Ravi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

"Bhishma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
    > Its only the lengthy timelines that make us impatient and lead us to
    > various hypotheses and unneccesary blood-boiling-as to who should do
    > what when and how!!. Yeah, its natural... its human.
    > But,let us not forget that we are finding fault with a system of a
    > country we have voluntarily chosen to immigrate. Those guys have not
    > come to our door step to invite us. We have opted for a better
    > life...and thus in all fairnrss they are at liberty to decide what
    > should go on in their house. And if we think that they are fooling
    > around with us by changing rules, please drop the idea of going. No
    > one is forcing you and me..and then, if you are still keen on
    > immigrating to Canada, then please be one of them. After all they are
    > the ones who would adopt you in their house and probably give you a
    > better life.
    > Bhishma.

You seem to be the type who thinks immigrants are like beggars. So, beggars
can't be choosers rules apply. If a rule set has fault then it should be
changed. Everybody has the right to ask to be treated fairly. It is
completely fair to modify immigration point system anytime based on Canada's
need. But applying the new rules retroactively is not. Immigration system
works based on both party's self-interests. Immigrants want to migrate
because they are seeking better opportunities. At the same time Canada wants
immigrants because they need them to keep up with their falling population
and use the immigrants skill sets to keep their economy running. Canada is
not handing out alms to the immigrants by allowing them to be in. In fact,
if would be immigrants don't have much interest to migrate to Canada then
you may even see Canada going door to door begging them to come. If Canada
try to fool around with the point system dealing with unfairly manners, then
in fact it'll be shooting on it's own foot by detracting the best of the
breed would be immigrants.

BTW, it's not only Canada that gives immigrants a chance for better life.
It's also the immigrants that make Canada successful with their hard work
and skill sets.

--
 
Old Apr 7th 2004, 8:05 pm
  #36  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 262
Ashok is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

It is fine, fair and it is THE requirement to have a selection system which serves the need of host country.

But it is not a good management, if applicant is waiting for 4 years in one visa post . One day s/he realises that retroactivity has thrown her/him out of the queue.

It is better to call for complete family resume (no fee attached). Screen the resume than ask limited / calculated number of prospective applicant to lock in his/her application.


Originally posted by Andrew Miller
Good point Bhishma.

As many (including myself) were always stating - Canadian immigration law is
designed to serve needs of Canada, not to serve needs or desires of
immigrants. Fact that Canada needs immigrants (the long term goal is that 1%
of population will come from immigration each year) doesn't mean that Canada
will or must take everyone who applies. We were all (applicants as well as
immigration practitioners) complaining about long delays and huge backlogs
caused by old law which wasn't flexible enough to keep pace with rapidly
changing market conditions. Many immigrants complained about not being able
to find job in their field for years after landing - because old system
didn't keep pace with changing markets and those with no chances for
establishment shouldn't be approved in the first place. Approval did them
more harm then good.

Floating and applied retroactively pass mark was intended as a tool to
manage quality and occupational profiles of immigrants as well as to keep
processing times in check (goal is to achieve processing times under 12
months as standard). This fall we should be able to see how 67 points pass
mark affected processing times and backlog - if CIC determines that number
of applications in process is substantially larger than needed to achieve
annual goal then expect higher pass mark to be implemented to filter in only
the number of immigrants needed and to eliminate (at least to try) any
accumulation of backlog. Brutal, but again - it is to serve needs of Canada,
needs that change as fast as market conditions change. Sooner everyone
understands it sooner we won't need to have this discussion over and over
again. And yes - we had this discussion in this forum already at least 4
times (every 5-6 months or so) since current law was introduced.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Bhishma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Its only the lengthy timelines that make us impatient and lead us to
    > various hypotheses and unneccesary blood-boiling-as to who should do
    > what when and how!!. Yeah, its natural... its human.
    > But,let us not forget that we are finding fault with a system of a
    > country we have voluntarily chosen to immigrate. Those guys have not
    > come to our door step to invite us. We have opted for a better
    > life...and thus in all fairnrss they are at liberty to decide what
    > should go on in their house. And if we think that they are fooling
    > around with us by changing rules, please drop the idea of going. No
    > one is forcing you and me..and then, if you are still keen on
    > immigrating to Canada, then please be one of them. After all they are
    > the ones who would adopt you in their house and probably give you a
    > better life.
    > Bhishma.
Ashok is offline  
Old Apr 7th 2004, 8:34 pm
  #37  
Bunyan
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Why are you so apologetic? Canadian type immigration is not a one
sided exchange: Canada wants skilled people and you want a good place
(relative) to go to. It is only fair that this exchange be executed in
fairness. The only reason why the CIC may appear to be insensitive is
actually because there is no shortage of good people who are willing
to emigrate. So don't make it sound as if Canada is performing some
charitable work - whether one elects to move to Canada voluntarily or
not - it is no basis for outright unjust treatment of potential
immigrants - it can't even stand in a Canadian law court as we have
seen from the reversals of some earlier decisions regarding
retroactivity of new regulations.

The main reason why some of us (in the first place) may want to move
to Canada is actually because we believe that it is a fair and civil
society.

[email protected] (Bhishma) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Its only the lengthy timelines that make us impatient and lead us to
    > various hypotheses and unneccesary blood-boiling-as to who should do
    > what when and how!!. Yeah, its natural... its human.
    > But,let us not forget that we are finding fault with a system of a
    > country we have voluntarily chosen to immigrate. Those guys have not
    > come to our door step to invite us. We have opted for a better
    > life...and thus in all fairnrss they are at liberty to decide what
    > should go on in their house. And if we think that they are fooling
    > around with us by changing rules, please drop the idea of going. No
    > one is forcing you and me..and then, if you are still keen on
    > immigrating to Canada, then please be one of them. After all they are
    > the ones who would adopt you in their house and probably give you a
    > better life.
    > Bhishma.
 
Old Apr 7th 2004, 9:04 pm
  #38  
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Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 85
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Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

would any of the experts please explain who would be affected by any change to the system/passmark?
I already got my passport stamped, but I am yet to enter the country, and I wouldn't want to discover I am going to have any problems doing that.
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Old Apr 8th 2004, 3:39 am
  #39  
Andrew Miller
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

If your visa has been issued then you won't be affected.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"wandering bard" <member21256@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > would any of the experts please explain who would be affected by any
    > change to the system/passmark?
    > I already got my passport stamped, but I
    > am yet to enter the country, and I wouldn't want to discover I am going
    > to have any problems doing that.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Apr 8th 2004, 5:21 am
  #40  
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Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 85
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Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Originally posted by Andrew Miller
If your visa has been issued then you won't be affected.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"wandering bard" <member21256@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > would any of the experts please explain who would be affected by any
    > change to the system/passmark?
    > I already got my passport stamped, but I
    > am yet to enter the country, and I wouldn't want to discover I am going
    > to have any problems doing that.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
thank you Andrew.
I'm relieved. I have a few more months to go before my landing.
wandering bard is offline  
Old Apr 8th 2004, 2:18 pm
  #41  
Bhishma
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Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Its not a matter of begging or being apologetic...Its facing facts. If
you do not wanna go there, somebody else will. Their progress would
still continue.And you are always at a liberty to choose any other
country to migrate if you feel that the system is not in place. BTW,
what impact/contribution has your opinion(s) on matters made on the
macro system in which you are presently living? Face facts man!!

Agreed, I too am not happy with the prolonged period of wait and
uncertainty, but cribbing about it will also not help! I too have a
genuine arranged employment duly approved by the HRDC, and the
employers are patiently waiting for my arrival so that they could
start their projects,and believe me its nerve racking- coz these
delays seem unwarranted.These lengthy timelines is our main concern
and time has the only answer to our patience.And thats the way its
gonna be- our liking or disliking is almost immaterial.
Have a nice day!
Bhishma.
 
Old Apr 8th 2004, 3:34 pm
  #42  
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 262
Ashok is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: heard Passing marks again rising from 67 to 75

Bhishma

Yesterday I made a large number of telephonic enquiries.
Various immigration agents here in India confirm, no one has got any movement on Post Jan 2002 New IRPA applicants.

True we have to face ground realty, we can do nothing towards an expeditious processing. CIC has its own agenda,beyond applicants comprehension. You are correct, no point cribbing / sulking.

Till now it is all hypothetical, let us wait and watch, if CIC increases pass marks or not.

With your arranged employment , HRDC approval you are at 90 points and in my case I am at 78 points, let us see how high CIC goes.

Good luck. Have a nice time.



Originally posted by Bhishma
Its not a matter of begging or being apologetic...Its facing facts. If
you do not wanna go there, somebody else will. Their progress would
still continue.And you are always at a liberty to choose any other
country to migrate if you feel that the system is not in place. BTW,
what impact/contribution has your opinion(s) on matters made on the
macro system in which you are presently living? Face facts man!!

Agreed, I too am not happy with the prolonged period of wait and
uncertainty, but cribbing about it will also not help! I too have a
genuine arranged employment duly approved by the HRDC, and the
employers are patiently waiting for my arrival so that they could
start their projects,and believe me its nerve racking- coz these
delays seem unwarranted.These lengthy timelines is our main concern
and time has the only answer to our patience.And thats the way its
gonna be- our liking or disliking is almost immaterial.
Have a nice day!
Bhishma.
Ashok is offline  

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