For Experts: AIP Question

Old Jan 7th 2004, 6:42 pm
  #1  
Jazzyb!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default For Experts: AIP Question

I've been following my wife's PR application online, since we've submitted
it. Today, I decided to contact the CIC call center to enquire about the
timeline for the AIP. I was told in late October/ early November that she
may receive this in December, she didn't. Today, the agent informed me that
she is scheduled or likely to receive the AIP in late January to early
February.

My question: How can a CIC agent make this determination? Are they relying
on notes attached to the application or are they "guestimating"? As we're
not one of those who are in a RUSH, it's not such a big deal.

Just curious.

Jay
 
Old Jan 8th 2004, 12:13 am
  #2  
Jim Humphries
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

IT is probably a guesstimate based on a look at the electronic file used for
processing.
--
Jim Humphries, former visa officer
"JazzyB!" <jazzybjazzy DONTWANTANY @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I've been following my wife's PR application online, since we've submitted
    > it. Today, I decided to contact the CIC call center to enquire about the
    > timeline for the AIP. I was told in late October/ early November that she
    > may receive this in December, she didn't. Today, the agent informed me
that
    > she is scheduled or likely to receive the AIP in late January to early
    > February.
    > My question: How can a CIC agent make this determination? Are they
relying
    > on notes attached to the application or are they "guestimating"? As we're
    > not one of those who are in a RUSH, it's not such a big deal.
    > Just curious.
    > Jay
 
Old Jan 8th 2004, 3:51 am
  #3  
Http://Www.Iamnotamerican.Com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

in a recent article, JazzyB! (jazzybjazzy DONTWANTANY @hotmail.com) said:

    > My question: How can a CIC agent make this determination? Are they relying
    > on notes attached to the application or are they "guestimating"? As we're
    > not one of those who are in a RUSH, it's not such a big deal.

They're doing you a favour and estimating based on the processes so far.
Much like it is an estimate for citizenship application timelines. They go
on average. The other option could be if people complain about these
inaccurate 'guesses' (and I know you're not one of those complaining, so
don't get me wrong there), that they don't tell people estimates and instead
tell them to just wait.

Hope you get it seen
--
Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
http://www.iamnotamerican.com
Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
 
Old Jan 8th 2004, 7:30 am
  #4  
Jazzyb!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

Thanks Jim. This is what I suspected.
"Jim Humphries" <jhumphri(stop spam)@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:lIcLb.24672$JQ1.21201@pd7tw1no...
    > IT is probably a guesstimate based on a look at the electronic file used
for
    > processing.
    > --
    > Jim Humphries, former visa officer
    > "JazzyB!" <jazzybjazzy DONTWANTANY @hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I've been following my wife's PR application online, since we've
submitted
    > > it. Today, I decided to contact the CIC call center to enquire about
the
    > > timeline for the AIP. I was told in late October/ early November that
she
    > > may receive this in December, she didn't. Today, the agent informed me
    > that
    > > she is scheduled or likely to receive the AIP in late January to early
    > > February.
    > >
    > > My question: How can a CIC agent make this determination? Are they
    > relying
    > > on notes attached to the application or are they "guestimating"? As
we're
    > > not one of those who are in a RUSH, it's not such a big deal.
    > >
    > > Just curious.
    > >
    > > Jay
    > >
    > >
 
Old Jan 8th 2004, 7:32 am
  #5  
Jazzyb!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

Thanks for the reply. As we're not in a rush, it's not that important. I
figured they were doing us a favour by providing the estimate.
"http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup@iam_not_american.com> wrote in
message news:BC22C982.23646%newsgroup@iam_not_american.com...
    > in a recent article, JazzyB! (jazzybjazzy DONTWANTANY @hotmail.com) said:
    > > My question: How can a CIC agent make this determination? Are they
relying
    > > on notes attached to the application or are they "guestimating"? As
we're
    > > not one of those who are in a RUSH, it's not such a big deal.
    > They're doing you a favour and estimating based on the processes so
far.
    > Much like it is an estimate for citizenship application timelines. They
go
    > on average. The other option could be if people complain about these
    > inaccurate 'guesses' (and I know you're not one of those complaining, so
    > don't get me wrong there), that they don't tell people estimates and
instead
    > tell them to just wait.
    > Hope you get it seen
    > --
    > Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
    > The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
    > http://www.iamnotamerican.com
    > Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
 
Old Jan 8th 2004, 8:14 am
  #6  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 182
Alfaris is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

They are not doing anyone a favour. It is their job and they are paid for it by taxpayers who trust them to do the work properly.

The other option would be to actually give a correct estimate, but that would, of course, be out of the question with your self-righteous attitude.

If it is not possible to give a correct estimate, they could do him a "favour" and tell him that's how it is. Misleading people could hardly be called doing a favour.

Alfaris

They're doing you a favour and estimating based on the processes so far.
Much like it is an estimate for citizenship application timelines. They go
on average. The other option could be if people complain about these
inaccurate 'guesses' (and I know you're not one of those complaining, so
don't get me wrong there), that they don't tell people estimates and instead
tell them to just wait.

Hope you get it seen
--
Alfaris is offline  
Old Jan 8th 2004, 4:06 pm
  #7  
Http://Www.Iamnotamerican.Com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

in a recent article, Alfaris (member12199@british_expats.com) said:

    > They are not doing anyone a favour. It is their job and they are paid
    > for it by taxpayers who trust them to do the work properly.
Actually, not all employees are prepared to give such estimates for
completion. I know from my own experiences. Nor is providing inaccurate
information or 'guestimates' part of their job description. Their job is to
assist applicants, processing and, of course, provide information. Accurate
information. Therefore, by providing guesses based on their understanding
of processes, it is a favour of sorts. Certainly not a personal favour, but
a favour all the same.

    > The other option would be to actually give a correct estimate, but
    > that would, of course, be out of the question with your self-
    > righteous attitude.

My goodness...what did I do to step on your toes recently? If you have
a problem with me, feel free to take it up with me via Email, rather than
taking your obvious personal problems to the newsgroup. I don't hide my
Email address. If you don't take it up via Email, I can only assume that you
do not have any genuine or valid issues. Now, onto the thread...

To a reasonable person, I think it goes without saying that the best
option would naturally be for the staff to provide accurate information. To
the day or even week, perhaps. However, the real world situation (as has
been demonstrated by the original post) is that due to various unforseen
circumstances, sometimes things get delayed.

    > If it is not possible to give a correct estimate, they could do him a
    > "favour" and tell him that's how it is. Misleading people could hardly
    > be called doing a favour.
In normal situations, the client would be advised or aware that it is
just an estimate. Much like a citizenship application and other government
processes. It is impossible to give a firm date. You know that as well as
I.

Of course, if you're not happy with estimates being given, you could
always file a formal complaint with the Federal Government that the
employees are providing inaccurate information and incorrect timeframes. If
enough people complain (or sue the government, since that seems to be the
way some are turning), the government could implement policies barring such
'guestimates'. Then of course, people WOULD get accurate information when
they get the call/letter saying their application or whatever is completed.

Since the original poster was satisfied with my response, I guess I must
ask you...would you be happy with that solution to the problem of inaccurate
information being provided by government employees?

--
Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
http://www.iamnotamerican.com
Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
 
Old Jan 8th 2004, 6:38 pm
  #8  
Jazzyb!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

Hey! Don't worry about the previous post. I feel he was way out of line.
Anyone with experience knows that a process is just that... a process.
There are delays and sometimes things are expedited. I'm a Canadian, my
wife isn't. Sure it would be nice to have the PR the day you enter the
country without having filed any sort of application but then where would
that leave Canada as a country or its citizens??!! I think we all know the
repercussions of such actions. IMO, if you're not prepared to endure the
process, however long, than don't bother applying. Thanks again for your
original reply.

Jay

"http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup@iam_not_american.com> wrote in
message news:BC2374AB.236D1%newsgroup@iam_not_american.com...
    > in a recent article, Alfaris (member12199@british_expats.com) said:
    > > They are not doing anyone a favour. It is their job and they are paid
    > > for it by taxpayers who trust them to do the work properly.
    > Actually, not all employees are prepared to give such estimates for
    > completion. I know from my own experiences. Nor is providing inaccurate
    > information or 'guestimates' part of their job description. Their job is
to
    > assist applicants, processing and, of course, provide information.
Accurate
    > information. Therefore, by providing guesses based on their understanding
    > of processes, it is a favour of sorts. Certainly not a personal favour,
but
    > a favour all the same.
    > > The other option would be to actually give a correct estimate, but
    > > that would, of course, be out of the question with your self-
    > > righteous attitude.
    > My goodness...what did I do to step on your toes recently? If you
have
    > a problem with me, feel free to take it up with me via Email, rather than
    > taking your obvious personal problems to the newsgroup. I don't hide my
    > Email address. If you don't take it up via Email, I can only assume that
you
    > do not have any genuine or valid issues. Now, onto the thread...
    > To a reasonable person, I think it goes without saying that the best
    > option would naturally be for the staff to provide accurate information.
To
    > the day or even week, perhaps. However, the real world situation (as has
    > been demonstrated by the original post) is that due to various unforseen
    > circumstances, sometimes things get delayed.
    > > If it is not possible to give a correct estimate, they could do him a
    > > "favour" and tell him that's how it is. Misleading people could hardly
    > > be called doing a favour.
    > In normal situations, the client would be advised or aware that it is
    > just an estimate. Much like a citizenship application and other
government
    > processes. It is impossible to give a firm date. You know that as well
as
    > I.
    > Of course, if you're not happy with estimates being given, you could
    > always file a formal complaint with the Federal Government that the
    > employees are providing inaccurate information and incorrect timeframes.
If
    > enough people complain (or sue the government, since that seems to be the
    > way some are turning), the government could implement policies barring
such
    > 'guestimates'. Then of course, people WOULD get accurate information when
    > they get the call/letter saying their application or whatever is
completed.
    > Since the original poster was satisfied with my response, I guess I
must
    > ask you...would you be happy with that solution to the problem of
inaccurate
    > information being provided by government employees?
    > --
    > Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
    > The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
    > http://www.iamnotamerican.com
    > Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
 
Old Jan 9th 2004, 2:56 am
  #9  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 182
Alfaris is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

That would be well and good if the people were actually informed about how long the process actually takes. We were discussing over-the-phone time estimates and their accuracy. Time and time again in 2002 people were told by CIC phone operators that AIP will take 90 days and then it will be a further several months to become a permanent resident - apparently unaware of the backlog that was building up. I know two of those applicants who are still waiting and CIC Scarborough is at this point backlogged for 26 months.

I myself had an experience with delayed CIC processing. When I applied for my post-graduate work permit, I was told I will get it in 21 days. When I called in after a month to check up, CIC told me that my application must have been delayed in the mail and I should get it soon. After about two months, I was finally told that they have a two month backlog on inland work permits and that I need to wait at least another month. In another month, my application was actually in process and then it was referred to a local office. At this point, CIC told me repeatedly that now they have no idea at all how long the process is going to take. There was no explanation as to why it was referred.

The whole process took close to six months, after which they finally issued my work permit. I was not able to obtain any reason as to why my file was referred.

People have no idea at all what they are getting themselves into when dealing with CIC. There are a few lucky ones, of course, who get their processing done quickly.

My hat off to Http://Www.Iamnotamerican.Com, I have been reading his posts recently and he is much kinder to people now than before. He never did anything to step on my toes, but I felt that some of his earlier posts were abusive and self-righteous.

Jay, we both know that many people would do anything to come to Canada and will also be willing to endure unreasonable CIC delays. This is no reason to put them down - they are human beings and you should treat them with respect. If they are suffering from CIC inefficiency, do not say that they agreed to it and they have to go through this if they want to live here. If you see a person in pain and it costs you nothing to help him - you should. It costs you nothing to spare him condenscending and self-righteous remarks.

One of the reasons why I moved from USA to Canada was because U.S. Immigration officers were extremely disrespectful and always demanded humility and subjugation from me at every turn, just because I was living in the USA at their mercy. If you exercise a similar attitude, you will also drive away some good immigrants from Canada. The immigrants you will actually attract will be ones who definitely have nothing to lose and will be willing to take such ignorant and condenscending treatment from you.

Alfaris

Originally posted by Jazzyb!
Hey! Don't worry about the previous post. I feel he was way out of line.
Anyone with experience knows that a process is just that... a process.
There are delays and sometimes things are expedited. I'm a Canadian, my
wife isn't. Sure it would be nice to have the PR the day you enter the
country without having filed any sort of application but then where would
that leave Canada as a country or its citizens??!! I think we all know the
repercussions of such actions. IMO, if you're not prepared to endure the
process, however long, than don't bother applying. Thanks again for your
original reply.

Jay
Alfaris is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2004, 6:07 am
  #10  
Jazzyb!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: For Experts: AIP Question

I think you missed my point. I did not put anyone down nor insult anyone.
Please re-read my post. I'm all for immigration. I've also lived in at
least three other countries: UK, Austria and Ghana and know a bit about
those countries various processes. That is why I said, "Anyone with
experience knows that a process is just that... a process. There are delays
and sometimes things are expedited."

Try waiting 4-5 hours in line at the UK Home Office in Croydon (just outside
London) and then talk to me about delays in immigration processes. Every
morning there is a line of about 50-60 people waiting outside trying to
renew, re-apply, etc., for their visas, permits, etc. Once the doors open
there are around 200-300 people - utter madness!! Try applying for a visa
from the UK High Commission in Ghana, where the queue is 150 people strong,
and that's before the gates open. Have fun trying to manoeuvre in that
under a 35C sun with no shade. Good luck applying for diplomatic status
in Austria or trying to secure a permanent residence there. Hope you speak
German, can translate all documents in German and are prepared to wait 2-3
years all the while not being able to work. Having experienced the above
and more, I've become much more "laid back" about blasting the CIC. That
said, I would say that I think they're probably under-staffed, as most
country's immigration departments are.

Essentially, all I'm saying is that research the process before applying and
determine whether you want to "endure" the process. If you're not prepared
for the ups and downs of immigrating then perhaps you should reconsider
proceeding.


"Alfaris" <member12199@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > That would be well and good if the people were actually informed about
    > how long the process actually takes. We were discussing over-the-phone
    > time estimates and their accuracy. Time and time again in 2002 people
    > were told by CIC phone operators that AIP will take 90 days and then it
    > will be a further several months to become a permanent resident -
    > apparently unaware of the backlog that was building up. I know two of
    > those applicants who are still waiting and CIC Scarborough is at this
    > point backlogged for 26 months.
    > I myself had an experience with delayed CIC processing. When I applied
    > for my post-graduate work permit, I was told I will get it in 21 days.
    > When I called in after a month to check up, CIC told me that my
    > application must have been delayed in the mail and I should get it soon.
    > After about two months, I was finally told that they have a two month
    > backlog on inland work permits and that I need to wait at least another
    > month. In another month, my application was actually in process and then
    > it was referred to a local office. At this point, CIC told me repeatedly
    > that now they have no idea at all how long the process is going to take.
    > There was no explanation as to why it was referred.
    > The whole process took close to six months, after which they finally
    > issued my work permit. I was not able to obtain any reason as to why my
    > file was referred.
    > People have no idea at all what they are getting themselves into when
    > dealing with CIC. There are a few lucky ones, of course, who get their
    > processing done quickly.
    > My hat off to Http://Www.Iamnotamerican.Com, I have been
    > reading his posts recently and he is much kinder to people now than
    > before. He never did anything to step on my toes, but I felt that some
    > of his earlier posts were abusive and self-righteous.
    > Jay, we both know that many people would do anything to come to Canada
    > and will also be willing to endure unreasonable CIC delays. This is no
    > reason to put them down - they are human beings and you should treat
    > them with respect. If they are suffering from CIC inefficiency, do not
    > say that they agreed to it and they have to go through this if they want
    > to live here. If you see a person in pain and it costs you nothing to
    > help him - you should. It costs you nothing to spare him condenscending
    > and self-righteous remarks.
    > One of the reasons why I moved from USA to Canada was because U.S.
    > Immigration officers were extremely disrespectful and always demanded
    > humility and subjugation from me at every turn, just because I was
    > living in the USA at their mercy. If you exercise a similar attitude,
    > you will also drive away some good immigrants from Canada. The
    > immigrants you will actually attract will be ones who definitely have
    > nothing to lose and will be willing to take such ignorant and
    > condenscending treatment from you.
    > Alfaris
    > Originally posted by Jazzyb!
    > > Hey! Don't worry about the previous post. I feel he was way out
    > > of line.
    > > Anyone with experience knows that a process is just that... a process.
    > > There are delays and sometimes things are expedited. I'm a
    > > Canadian, my
    > > wife isn't. Sure it would be nice to have the PR the day you
    > > enter the
    > > country without having filed any sort of application but then
    > > where would
    > > that leave Canada as a country or its citizens??!! I think we all
    > > know the
    > > repercussions of such actions. IMO, if you're not prepared to
    > > endure the
    > > process, however long, than don't bother applying. Thanks again
    > > for your
    > > original reply.
    > >
    > > Jay
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 

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