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ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Old Apr 2nd 2016, 1:01 am
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Default ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Just arrived back in Canada from the USA- admittedly a smaller airport. The officer at immigration said that we should have had an ETA even though we are PRs. I politely ( very) tried to tell him he was wrong but he insisted that we did. He also said that if he was a dual citizen and was not travelling on a Canadian passport- he would also need one- again not true!!!
He handed us the attached sheet-got a bit scruffy sorry!- it doesn't mention PRs but does mention dual citizens. But if the sheet they are handing out is incomplete, who knows what chaos will ensue later this year when enforced! At least he smiled though and said he thought it was just a cash grab!
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Old Apr 2nd 2016, 4:32 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Oh dear.

Perhaps PRs should run off and travel with one of the CIC pages e.g.:

"Reminder
You cannot apply for an eTA if you are:

a Canadian citizen or a dual Canadian citizen,
a Canadian permanent resident, or
a U.S. citizen. (However, lawful permanent residents of the U.S. need an eTA if travelling by air.)"

Apply for an Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA)

and/or:

I am a permanent resident of Canada. Do I need an eTA if I leave and want to return to Canada by air?

S

Last edited by Snowy560; Apr 2nd 2016 at 4:38 am.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 12:25 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

The same is happening travelling south.
4 people this week on a FB page I'm on, crossed by land to the US on different crossings and all 4 were told they needed ESTA's and made to do them alongside the I94's.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 1:34 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

I think an appropriate thread title would be

Do CBSA know the CIC rules and do USCBP know the US Govt rules and if not why not?

As the Human League sang Im only Human born to make mistakes.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 1:44 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
I think an appropriate thread title would be

Do CBSA know the CIC rules and do USCBP know the US Govt rules and if not why not?

As the Human League sang Im only Human born to make mistakes.
Very true- we all make mistakes and the officer has obviously not been briefed correctly. But the paper is a Gov of Canada production- presumably from CIC- so why no mention of PRs?
I think Snowy 560 may be right- we may need to carry around print outs from the CIC own web site once they get stricter.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 2:21 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Also you don't need an eTA if flying from the US.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 3:10 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Hi, if you are a visa exempt citizen who is not a dual citizen (Canadian), a Canadian PR or a US citizen, (or the Queen and a few other exemptions) you need an eTA unless you are travelling by land or sea:

I am visiting the U.S. I want to come to Canada. Do I need an eTA?

S

Last edited by Snowy560; Apr 3rd 2016 at 3:17 am.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 3:31 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
Hi, if you are a visa exempt citizen who is not a dual citizen (Canadian), a Canadian PR or a US citizen, (or the Queen and a few other exemptions) you need an eTA unless you are travelling by land or sea:

I am visiting the U.S. I want to come to Canada. Do I need an eTA?

S
You are correct and this is confusing. Though I think if you have any valid status in Canada, you don't require eTA when arriving from US

One of the questions on this page https://onlineservices-servicesenlig...948.1424719486

asks

Are you any of the following?
• A person holding valid status in Canada and entering Canada from the United States or St. Pierre and Miquelon
answering Yes to this question returns

For the purpose of your current travel, you do not require an eTA.
I take "valid status" to include TWP holders, study permit holders etc...
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 3:50 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

You may be right, actually, because the exemptions from the requirement to get an eTA are listed in IRPR R7.1(3) and they include (among other exemptions):

(f) a foreign national referred to in any of paragraphs 190(3)(b), (b.1), (c), (d), (f), (g) or (h).

IRPR R190(3)(f) doesn't say anything about mode of transport (although the trip must have only been to the US or St. Pierre and Miquelon).

Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations

I agree it is confusing. And it seems everyone is confused (CIC; CBSA; travellers ..... us ...!).

S

Last edited by Snowy560; Apr 3rd 2016 at 4:16 am.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 4:08 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

I can see lots of grief with this!
Airlines will be able to see if you have an ETA as you check in. If you haven't , how is the airline check in person going to to able to tell what is a valid visa for Canada, a PR card is easy but student, TWP ??? They are not CBSA officers nor should they be expected to act as such, I wonder what they will do?
If the ETA is as smooth as the ESTA site it may be ok, but given CIC's track record...............!!!
I made a huge boob on our trip, I had renewed youngest pup's passport months early, and so he still had a " valid" ESTA until August in my mind and on their site, forgetting it's linked to his previous passport. When we tried to check in, I realized the disaster but we were able to apply and get the new ESTA in minutes, the lady at check in could also see it a couple of minutes later. In fact I saw later that there is a dedicated computer terminal for ESTAs near the check ins, which would have been quicker I think. I can't see CIC putting computers in airports anywhere!!!!
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 4:15 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Yes there is the issue that entering Canada is a separate thing to getting on the plane (whether in the US or from elsewhere). Essentially, if you don't get on the plane you definitely aren't going to be getting off it and into Canada ...


S

Last edited by Snowy560; Apr 3rd 2016 at 4:21 am.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 5:47 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Maybe would have been much less confusion to have announced ETAs with an option for PRs (non citizens) to apply for a PR ETA if they needed to leave the country and come back in by air as a backup to PR card. No worse than applying for a travel document if required in some circumstances .For free of course for PRs but then again as government is involved nothing is ever free I guess.

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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 6:31 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

One of the purposes of eTA is to stop the loop hole of visa exempt citizens returning to Canada without a valid PR card or a PRTD.

Renewing a PR card (inside Canada) or applying for a PRTD (outside Canada) means you have to show you have met (or can meet) the residency obligation.

S
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 8:01 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
One of the purposes of eTA is to stop the loop hole of visa exempt citizens returning to Canada without a valid PR card or a PRTD.

Renewing a PR card (inside Canada) or applying for a PRTD (outside Canada) means you have to show you have met (or can meet) the residency obligation.

S
True yet people still dont need an ETA to make a land border crossing so will the officer at the border be closing that loop, an open question.
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Old Apr 3rd 2016, 11:48 am
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Default Re: ETAs- does CIC actually know its own rules!

Call me a bored (old) cynic, if you like . This all reminds me of similar confusion/minor hullabaloo when PR cards were first introduced...

Then, as now, the issue was never "will Canada let me in" but rather "will I be able to board the plane".
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