Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Old Jun 11th 2016, 4:22 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
But what if they don't want to?

It is now far easier and cheaper for a foreign national to visit Canada, than it is for a Canadian dual citizen who ordinarily resides in another country, and ordinarily uses that country's passport, consular support, etc. That's just ridiculous.
+1
If I choose to, I don't have to use my European passport when I go to Europe. I can use my Canadian one and be OK. However I choose to use the European one because I go often and the benefits are worth keeping the passport valid. However, the fees to renew my Maltese passport in Canada are actually cheaper ($110) than a Canadian passport in Canada ($160)

For dual Canadian citizens abroad the choice has been taken away and now are forced to spend $260 + consular fees + shipping/handling from abroad to renew a passport. When it comes up as a surprise like it did for my grandparents who don't live here anymore, it added $600 to the cost of their trip. For a family with 2 adults and 2 sprogs thats $600 for the 2 adult passports and $400 (200 x 2) for the 2 sprog passports. So $1000 for passports that they shouldn't need if their second citizenship offers visa free travel to Canada.

The sting would be taken away a bit if passport fees were reduced from abroad. Charge the same as for a domestic passport, at least.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 4:48 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

I suppose renouncing Canadian citizenship is always an option for a dual citizen who lives in another country. That should solve the problem.

S
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 4:55 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
I suppose renouncing Canadian citizenship is always an option for a dual citizen who lives in another country. That should solve the problem.

S
Bit drastic though, and Canada unlike the UK doesn't offer an option to re-acquire after you renounce. People want to keep it for their kids and such, and in the foggiest chance they ever come back to Canada. But as it is I agree with the other poster - its unfair that foreign nationals with no connection to Canada can now come and visit with an easier process than a Canadian dual national who has lived abroad for an extended period of time. Before you could just use the foreign passport if you were only visiting. And even for people like my grandparents who will never move back to Canada, their Canadian citizenship is a symbol of the hard work they put in to earn a life here, and giving that up would be a bit emotional. It would also probably cost roughly the same as getting new Canadian passports, making it a wash where getting new passports wins out, because well, you aren't losing one of your citizenships if you do that.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 5:01 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
I suppose renouncing Canadian citizenship is always an option for a dual citizen who lives in another country. That should solve the problem.

S
They want $100 for that option. These shakedown artists reach for your wallet no matter which path you choose.

And frankly, that's using dynamite to crack a nut. The real solution is to let dual nationals access eTAs--i.e. treat them no worse than foreign nationals.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 5:05 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Yes, I've heard renouncing a citizenship can be an expensive business! Probably would be more than getting the passport!

But generally speaking I personally don't think it's that "unfair" to have the requirement that Canadians travel to Canada and enter as Canadians.

S

Last edited by Snowy560; Jun 11th 2016 at 5:11 am.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 5:07 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
The real solution is to let dual nationals access eTAs--i.e. treat them no worse than foreign nationals.

And-*gasp*-maybe even let them indicate their Canadian citizenship on the eTA so its nice and simple and the airline can see their Canadian citizenship tied to the foreign PP. Kind of like the UK certificate of right of abode but in an electronic eTA format that only costs $7.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

If you don't like the rules then renounce and stop complaining about it. Omg.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 12:23 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by SchnookoLoly View Post
If you don't like the rules then renounce and stop complaining about it. Omg.
Nah, I'd rather exercise my right as a Canadian to agitate for change to an unreasonable ruleset.

There's no national security benefit to this unfair treatment of dual nationals--the visit is being tracked anyway. It's just a legacy of Harper's progressive attacks on non-resident Canadians. The Liberals should wake up and stop perpetuating it.
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Old Jun 11th 2016, 7:16 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Nah, I'd rather exercise my right as a Canadian to agitate for change to an unreasonable ruleset.

There's no national security benefit to this unfair treatment of dual nationals--the visit is being tracked anyway. It's just a legacy of Harper's progressive attacks on non-resident Canadians. The Liberals should wake up and stop perpetuating it.
Then get an MP involved, write to Trudeau, Sajjan and McCallum, make noise at people who can actually change things. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone here in BE has influence!

Contact the Prime Minister | Prime Minister of Canada
http://pm.gc.ca/eng/minister/honoura...tional Defence
http://pm.gc.ca/eng/minister/honoura...nd Citizenship


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Old Jun 11th 2016, 10:54 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Then get an MP involved, write to Trudeau, Sajjan and McCallum, make noise at people who can actually change things. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone here in BE has influence!

Contact the Prime Minister | Prime Minister of Canada
The Honourable Harjit Singh Sajjan | Prime Minister of Canada
The Honourable John McCallum | Prime Minister of Canada

Oh, I agree. I only became aware of the issue in the last 24 hours, after Canadian business hours on Friday, as I was making final preparations for a family visit next week. These posts on BE are just preliminary venting; I'll be doing what you suggest and more.

(The govt's $2.4M advertising budget for the change clearly didn't go far. I booked the tickets in March, and saw not a peep online as I trawled through the net for days researching various flight options. The local travel agent didn't have a clue. Even an otherwise helpful agent in Air Canada's call centre yesterday had to be walked through the dual citizen dilemma, and had to double-check what doco AC would be insisting on during pre-boarding at the Australian airport.)
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Old Jun 12th 2016, 12:33 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by SchnookoLoly View Post
If you don't like the rules then renounce and stop complaining about it. Omg.
Yes, that sounds like a perfect plan for me. Besides the fact that I live here, and when I do leave, one day I will have to come back to take care of a sibling with mental and physical challenges. But in that time I live away, I should be able to not have a Canadian passport if that is what I choose to do.

Actually, I can still exercise my right as an EU national when travelling to Europe on a visit from Canada, using a Canadian passport only and proof of my EU citizenship (ID card, expired passport, citizenship certificate) as EU law requires the BSO to give "every opportunity necessary" to prove EU citizenship and right to enter. I should be able to do the reverse, living in Europe, flying to Canada on valid EU passport, with proof of Canadian citizenship (birth certificate, expired Canadian passport) in tow to show to CBSA when I get here and be admitted as a citizen.

Now, I should note, I only make a fuss in the principle of all this, since in my case I will always maintain both passports and valid NEXUS card so its a non-issue for me technically. But the option to be without the Canadian pp would be nice in emergency situations.

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Nah, I'd rather exercise my right as a Canadian to agitate for change to an unreasonable ruleset.

There's no national security benefit to this unfair treatment of dual nationals--the visit is being tracked anyway. It's just a legacy of Harper's progressive attacks on non-resident Canadians. The Liberals should wake up and stop perpetuating it.
+1.

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Then get an MP involved, write to Trudeau, Sajjan and McCallum, make noise at people who can actually change things. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone here in BE has influence!

Contact the Prime Minister | Prime Minister of Canada
http://pm.gc.ca/eng/minister/honoura...tional Defence
http://pm.gc.ca/eng/minister/honoura...nd Citizenship

Thanks, I will actually be doing exactly that!
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Old Jun 12th 2016, 1:48 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Here is the email I wrote to the Office of the Prime Minister:
Dear Mr. Trudeau. I am writing to you on behalf of all dual Canadian citizens as I write this message.

In the recent past, the previous Conservative government introduced a piece of legislation that brought about the eTA (Electronic Travel Authorisation) program, subject to foreign visitors (except American citizens) who do not require a visa to visit Canada in order to determine their admissibility to the country. Whilst this program may seem like a good idea to maintain the national security and integrity of our country, it has created a massive inconvenience for dual Canadian citizens residing outside the country. These dual citizens have now been forced to obtain Canadian passports at prohibitive costs, in lieu of using their foreign passport for short visits. In the past, these citizens would use their foreign passports to visit Canada, and upon arrival, show the CBSA officer alternate proof of Canadian citizenship. This would allow them to visit Canada without the cost of maintaining a Canadian passport in addition to their foreign passport.

The case as it is now is utterly unacceptable. A foreign national with visa waiver privileges can visit Canada with less required fees ($7 for eTA vs $260 for a Canadian passport from abroad) and less hassle than a dual Canadian citizen living abroad. How is this fair to Canadians? For families with children, this cost could potentially mean cancellation of the trip as new passports in addition to the foreign ones are not in the budget. Case in point, my family is Maltese-Canadian, and my grandparents live in Malta and are dual citizens. In order to visit us this summer, they had to spend over $600 after consular and shipping/handling fees for new Canadian passports.

As a leader whose political platform was based on helping the middle class, I hope you consider the needs of middle class Canadians abroad who just may not have the funds for new Canadian passports to visit their families and friends here in Canada.

I will now edit/revise it and send it to the other links as well as send an email to my local MP (Conservative).
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Old Jun 12th 2016, 5:32 pm
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
Yes, that sounds like a perfect plan for me. Besides the fact that I live here, and when I do leave, one day I will have to come back to take care of a sibling with mental and physical challenges. But in that time I live away, I should be able to not have a Canadian passport if that is what I choose to do.

Actually, I can still exercise my right as an EU national when travelling to Europe on a visit from Canada, using a Canadian passport only and proof of my EU citizenship (ID card, expired passport, citizenship certificate) as EU law requires the BSO to give "every opportunity necessary" to prove EU citizenship and right to enter. I should be able to do the reverse, living in Europe, flying to Canada on valid EU passport, with proof of Canadian citizenship (birth certificate, expired Canadian passport) in tow to show to CBSA when I get here and be admitted as a citizen.

Now, I should note, I only make a fuss in the principle of all this, since in my case I will always maintain both passports and valid NEXUS card so its a non-issue for me technically. But the option to be without the Canadian pp would be nice in emergency situations.

+1.


Thanks, I will actually be doing exactly that!
I totally get why people are annoyed/angry about this - but just want to make sure that you understand that while it's CIC that has instigated this, the requirement for a Canadian Passport isn't for when you enter Canada - it's not for the CBSA - it's to show proof to the Airline at your departing Country so that you can actually board the plane to Canada.


Last edited by Siouxie; Jun 12th 2016 at 5:34 pm.
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Old Jun 12th 2016, 11:54 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
I totally get why people are annoyed/angry about this - but just want to make sure that you understand that while it's CIC that has instigated this, the requirement for a Canadian Passport isn't for when you enter Canada - it's not for the CBSA - it's to show proof to the Airline at your departing Country so that you can actually board the plane to Canada.

Oh yes, I totally understand that, and this is where it makes me upset because legally I don't have to use my Canadian passport to enter Canada, it isn't like the US where you *must* use a US passport to enter the US if you are a US citizen according to US law. Its just a de facto requirement to get on the plane because of eTA.

If I wanted to prove a point I could use my Canadian passport to check into my flight and then show the Maltese one + ON birth certificate to CBSA on arrival and be let in as a citizen.
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Old Jun 13th 2016, 1:21 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Is eTA another CIC boondoggle?

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
I totally get why people are annoyed/angry about this - but just want to make sure that you understand that while it's CIC that has instigated this, the requirement for a Canadian Passport isn't for when you enter Canada - it's not for the CBSA - it's to show proof to the Airline at your departing Country so that you can actually board the plane to Canada.

But that's a distinction without any practical difference. eTAs apply for all air travel to Canada from visa-free countries, so airline pre-boarding doco policy is an inextricable part of the new hurdle CIC has thrown up for dual citizens visiting Canada. Since dual citizens cannot apply for eTAs, the airlines will inevitably require Canadian passports once the leniency period is over.

The CIC implicitly acknowledges this in their website page concerning travel documents for dual citizens: "You will need to show proof you are a Canadian citizen to travel to Canada by air... A valid Canadian passport is the only reliable and universally accepted travel and identification document that provides proof that a person is a citizen and has the right to enter Canada without being subjected to immigration screening."

As far as I can tell, dual citizens arriving in Canada by ship or car can still use their foreign passports if they choose to. The inconsistencies in the overall border entry procedural details are glaring and ludicrous, and highlight that there is no actual organizing principle behind the changes--just a tug of the forelock from Harper to the US.
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