snoopdawg

This is an FYI rather than a question. Due to circumstances beyond my control- we reluctantly had to flag poll for PR last year. We had a current ESTA at the time.
I have been so worried since about reapplying, and have done lots of research. Some people have said they didn't declare and were ok but it seems the legal position is that we should declare the "administrative refusal".

I can't help but be law abiding- or else I would fret every day till we arrived in the US, plus we have entered the US three times on our previous ESTAs since flag polling and had no issues.So reluctantly I applied for our new ESTAs but added "administrative refusal as flag polling for Canadian PR" on the "where" line.

Now 2 days later- I've just checked- all ESTAs have been approved. I can feel happier now- I think it was the right thing to do- lying to any Immigration department can surely never be a good idea! I do think that whether it is entered correctly at the time helps. But I hope this helps others worrying or just wondering.

EssentialP

I thought you didn't need an ESTA to flagpole. You only need one if traveling in an airplane or ship.

Former Lancastrian

But if you are flag poling and your means of entry into the US is by plane or ship then you would need an ESTA
Yes we know most people flagpole by private vehicle but some do elect to fly say to Vegas and use that trip as leaving Canada then do the landing on the way back.

Siouxie

But then, that wouldn't be classed as flagpoling.

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Trip_a...lagpole-Canada

james.mc

Can't see why not After all it's only a BE forum expression.

In Thailand we called it a Visa run... whereby you drove or flew out of Thailand and returned on the same day. Stamped out and stamped in on the same date. Flagpoling, Visa run.. it's all the same thing and has the same end result.

In fact in the Wiki under Flagpoling is says:

Which is just what the OP is planning to do.

Siouxie

It is a BE forum expression and many other forums use the same term - thus why I responded with it wouldn't really be flagpoling - as the generally accepted meaning is shown in the same wiki article, as are the alternatives.

" ...A trip around the flagpole, as the term is used on the BE forum, means driving from a starting point in Canada to the Canada-USA border, turning around, and re-entering Canada so that you can have a visa issued and/or activated. This may be a permanent residence (PR) visa or a temporary work permit (TWP)... "

"...Alternatives to flagpoling

You could also fly into the United States for a vacation and then return to Canada..."

The OP flagpoled to get 'landed' already, the comment they made was regarding ESTA's for information only.

Former Lancastrian

Airports have flag poles as well Well mine does plus we have a several flag poles within the terminal and CBSA restricted area as do most US airports.

Siouxie

Mikeypm

So if I come to your airport I can quite literally flag pole

EssentialP

Are there any flags at border crossings? When I get into the US I want to circle their flag pole before returning to the border.

Jim Humphries

You cannot "flagpole" at an airport.

Former Lancastrian

Why not???? As long as they are seeking entry into Canada from a flight originating from outside of Canada then they are free to flagpole.
Admittedly if they are already in Canada and just arrive at the airport office without leaving Canada then No we wont land them though
some of our Managers & Directors are questioning as to why we can't.

Jim Humphries

Its because of the origin of the term which as Siouxie pointed out was "goin' round the flagpole". Something you cannot do at an airport when the flag is that of USA. Moreover you are only going into the USA in order to immediately turn around. Any other usage would only confuse!

mandymoochops

Actually another FYI.

When I landed, my husband and I were going to

1) go to the states
2) Spend a long weekend do some shopping
3) come back to Canada and land.

Well number 1 is where it went south (metaphorically and physically!)

Told the US border bod about our plan, she immediately says "well turn right around now, go back to Canada, land, then turn back around and come on your trip.

I'm like "ok seems like a waste but whatever", gets issued the administrative refusal, turn around, go back to Canada, land, turn back around again and go into the office at the US side to do the paperwork for getting in.

On the paperwork it says "have you ever been refused.............. etc etc" Well me being all law abiding - ticks "YES"

Well the chappy at the desk (although super nice) says "you should have ticked "no" because now there might be a problem with you saying you've been refused.

So I say "well you did refuse me (kind of) not 10 mins ago - so strictly speaking it's right, right??????"

He goes off to check with someone and then had to write on my declaration form that the reason I put yes was because of the AR.

In future (he told me) Just answer NO to that question!!!!!!

snoopdawg

Just to clarify my point- no you do not need an ESTA to flag pole but you do need it to enter the USA by air/sea afterwards- e.g. for a holiday/business.
There is lots of discussion on the web about whether to declare the administrative refusal on an ESTA application, I couldn't find anyone who had admitted it and got their ESTA although I'm sure there are lots who do but just haven't posted anywhere.