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Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Old Jul 3rd 2005, 7:15 am
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Default Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

First post for me on here…and it’s a long one!...go gently with me!

I’m in the middle of pulling together papers for a Skilled Worker PR application and at the same time, I’m trying to accurately interpret the Education Factor regulations. I would be grateful for definitive answers (which are based on the regulations as opposed to on opinion) on the following specific questions that relate to excerpts (in red text) taken from what I understand to be the regulations in force.

Firstly, I’m using the information at the following URL as my source for the following excerpts.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/I-2.5/S...tml#rid-132942

1) Is there another document that I can look at that gives fuller explanations or good worked examples that might make the following clearer for me, or am I in the “right place� at the above URL?

"full-time" means, in relation to a program of study leading to an educational credential, at least 15 hours of instruction per week during the academic year, including any period of training in the workplace that forms part of the course of instruction.

2) How many hours instruction per year does this equate to? Should I think of it as 15 hours x 52 weeks = 780 hours?...or, accounting for typical non-term time periods, is it more like 15 hours per week over, say, 9 months (39 weeks) of the year = approx 585 hours?

3) My post secondary education is with the Open University. My course descriptions/transcripts talk in terms of 600 hours of study over the course of 12 months. Using the above 39 week view, that would be 15.38 hours per week BUT is study (ie: 600 hours of) the same thing as instruction (as in the wording of the regulation)?

4) Building on 3), if you are not aware of the UK’s Open University, it offers courses on a distance learning basis with very limited tutorial support. According to the CIC’s definition of full time, can I reasonably consider a course involving 600 hours of study in a 12 month period as being equal to one year’s full time study?

(c) 15 points for
(ii) a one-year university educational credential at the bachelor's level and a total of at least 13 years of completed full-time or full-time equivalent studies;


5) This probably reflects my ignorance (for which, apologies) but is there such a thing as “a one-year educational credential at the bachelor’s level?� I’ve looked at the definition of “educational credential� in the regulations. It is defined as “any diploma, degree or trade or apprenticeship credential�. So, does this mean, for example, that some diplomas are “at the bachelor’s level� or does this regulation reflect the fact that one year degrees are readily available to be studied? I ask because I had always assumed that to be “at the bachelor’s level�, you’d have to be studying a degree and that most degrees were 3 years in length. Definitive facts and examples of acceptable “one-year educational credential[s] at the bachelor’s level?� would be very helpful?

(e) 22 points for
(ii) two or more university educational credentials at the bachelor's level and a total of at least 15 years of completed full-time or full-time equivalent studies;


6) The answer to my question here probably flows from earlier answers above. If there IS such a thing as a “a one-year educational credential at the bachelor’s level?�, does this mean you could get 22 points from the following scenario…6 years at primary school, 7 years at secondary school (completing A Levels) and then two further one year qualifications at the bachelor’s level (ie: 15 years in all). I feel sure this isn’t the intent of the regulation and that it is meant to apply to people with 2 x three year degrees but associating it with such a low total number of years of studies seems to leave it open to more lenient interpretation.

Multiple educational achievements
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2), points
(a) shall not be awarded cumulatively on the basis of more than one single educational credential; and
(b) shall be awarded
(i) for the purposes of paragraphs (2)(a) to (d), subparagraph (2)(e)(i) and paragraph (2)(f), on the basis of the single educational credential that results in the highest number of points, and
(ii) for the purposes of subparagraph (2)(e)(ii), on the basis of the combined educational credentials referred to in that paragraph.


7) I’ve got to say this regulation really confuses me! Can someone explain and give an example or two of what (a) above means in practice.

8) On (b)(i) can someone give a worked example or two showing what would/would not be acceptable?


Two final questions around education. These relate to my partner. She did seven years at primary school and 5 years at secondary school, completing her exams at that point. So that’s 12 years. She then left school and commenced a two year Youth Training Scheme, (YTS), (these were common in the UK in the 1980’s, the idea being, I think, to teach school-leavers practical trade skills to improve their employability). In my partner’s case, her YTS course was to learn secretarial skills and this involved full time work placements with a number of organisations over a period of 2 years along with regular day release to secretarial college with Pitmans (a recognised organisation delivering secretarial training). As part of her day release, she took and passed a series of Pitman’s secretarial/office practice examinations (all certificates available to send to the CIC) and at the successful conclusion of the two years, she was awarded a further certificate (also available to send to the CIC) recording that fact. It was issued by the Manpower Services Commission (the, now defunct, government agency that operated YTS’s). She has since made her career in secretarial work, supporting ever more senior executives in a global oil company. My questions then!...

9) I read somewhere (can’t remember where – I’ve read so much stuff on immigration lately, I’m getting blind to it all!) that the CIC don’t recognise more than 11 years education to completion of O Levels, (ie: 6 years of Primary and 5 of Secondary)? That seems unfair when my partner did 7 years of Primary. Do CIC take each case on its own facts OR do they really ignore one year of Primary education where people have been at Primary school for 7 years?

10) We sort of appreciate that the Canadian’s are short of “trades people� in the sense of electricians and plumbers and carpenters and so on and that a secretarial “trade� certificate does not fit in with this but the regulations seem non-specific about the sorts of non-university “educational credential� that are acceptable. As such, do you think the above 2 year YTS credential qualifies as a non-university trade certificate? If not, and in terms of the regulations as stated, why not?


Now, I think I have imposed on your time way too much! Please accept my thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to offer constructive responses. Perhaps clear answers to my questions can turn this post into a useful reference point for future readers who are as confused as I am about the Education Factor!

Kind regards.


EMOG
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Old Jul 3rd 2005, 7:27 am
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Default Re: Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Originally Posted by EMOG
3) My post secondary education is with the Open University. My course descriptions/transcripts talk in terms of 600 hours of study over the course of 12 months. Using the above 39 week view, that would be 15.38 hours per week BUT is study (ie: 600 hours of) the same thing as instruction (as in the wording of the regulation)?

4) Building on 3), if you are not aware of the UK’s Open University, it offers courses on a distance learning basis with very limited tutorial support. According to the CIC’s definition of full time, can I reasonably consider a course involving 600 hours of study in a 12 month period as being equal to one year’s full time study?
I'd be surprised if you get a full response to your post which raises lots of complex questions, and is something for which you probably need to hire an experienced professional.

But as for Open University study, as you must know the OU works on the basis of 'credit points' where 120 = 1 year's full time study, and 360 points required for a degree. So an Open University BA or BSc acquired without credit transfer should equate to three years full time equivalent education, like many other UK bachelors degrees.

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Old Jul 3rd 2005, 1:07 pm
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Default Re: Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Originally Posted by JAJ
I'd be surprised if you get a full response to your post which raises lots of complex questions, and is something for which you probably need to hire an experienced professional.

But as for Open University study, as you must know the OU works on the basis of 'credit points' where 120 = 1 year's full time study, and 360 points required for a degree. So an Open University BA or BSc acquired without credit transfer should equate to three years full time equivalent education, like many other UK bachelors degrees.

Jeremy

Also, aside from an experienced professional, you should try securing services of an evaluation committtee (like ECE or WES). Although it will cost you some money, their evaluation will state what's your "degree" (actual schooling or as a result of an experience) and its equivalent in the Canadian education system. At least, you will have an idea where you are and what points you will get in terms of education.
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Old Jul 3rd 2005, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Sorry, but evaluations of education credentials and their Canadian equivalency are irrelevant under current immigration rules.

Originally Posted by anona?
Also, aside from an experienced professional, you should try securing services of an evaluation committtee (like ECE or WES). Although it will cost you some money, their evaluation will state what's your "degree" (actual schooling or as a result of an experience) and its equivalent in the Canadian education system. At least, you will have an idea where you are and what points you will get in terms of education.
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Old Jul 3rd 2005, 10:59 pm
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Default Re: Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Sorry, but evaluations of education credentials and their Canadian equivalency are irrelevant under current immigration rules.
Andrew
CIC must still have a method of evaluating the score of those who have a regular university degree from a particular country but a 'non-standard' secondary education background.

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Old Jul 5th 2005, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Sorry, but evaluations of education credentials and their Canadian equivalency are irrelevant under current immigration rules.
I don't know if I am wrong or what but according to the Checklist from Buffalo, (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/E37048.pdf) in terms of education qualification, it includes (2nd bullet point) "College or university documents: certification of completion and the graduation degree, diploma, or certificate issued by the college or university and the evaluation committee". So, I guess WES or ECE is an "evaluation committee"... (not sure though).
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Old Jul 5th 2005, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: Education Factor - Interpreting the rules

It is the evaluation committee in the education institution or authority that granted the diploma. For example a trade certificate obtained after period of training or apprenticeship and final exam passed before the evaluation committee of the authority granting such trade certificate in jurisdiction it was obtained. It is not about any third party evaluation.

Originally Posted by anona?
I don't know if I am wrong or what but according to the Checklist from Buffalo, (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/E37048.pdf) in terms of education qualification, it includes (2nd bullet point) "College or university documents: certification of completion and the graduation degree, diploma, or certificate issued by the college or university and the evaluation committee". So, I guess WES or ECE is an "evaluation committee"... (not sure though).
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