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Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Old Apr 16th 2016, 2:00 am
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Default Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Our sponsorship approval was granted in early December we are thinking of travelling to Canada soon (me with dual intent) in hopes that my PR application is approved in the coming months.

My wife and children are all Canadian citizens but as a UK citizen I would be able to live in Canada for 6 months as a visitor, my eTA has been approved (I provided the details of my current visa application).

I've read on this forum that you must buy a return ticket to show your intent to leave. It's unlikely that I would return to the UK without my wife and children, so in the event of my visa not being approved we would probably all fly back to the UK together. Would they also all need return tickets?

Buying a return ticket seems to me like merely paying lip service, surely someone who intended to try to stay in Canada illegally would also be prepared to buy a return ticket with no intentions of ever using it?

If I brought with me a current bank statement showing enough funds for my family to live on for at least 6 months and buy return tickets for all of us, wouldn't that also be considered as evidence that I intended to live as a visitor and be able to return to the UK if necessary?

About 8 years ago my wife and I previously came to Canada for 6 months without return tickets while she applied for her UK visa with no problems.

I don't really want to spend over a thousand pounds on air tickets that hopefully we'll not have to use.

On this page point 7 seems to suggest that proof of funds is equal to a return ticket: Temporary residents: Eligibility and admissibility considerations
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Old Apr 16th 2016, 2:21 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Have your wife and children become British Citizens yet? If not that is something you really need to get sorted, coming back to the UK will, after a while be difficult and expensive.
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Old Apr 16th 2016, 2:43 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Thanks, yes my wife became a British Citizen several years ago and our kids were born here in the UK a few years later. We recently received their Canadian Citizenship Certificates (by descent).

Last edited by Scott_Chegg; Apr 16th 2016 at 2:56 am. Reason: spelling mistake!!
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Old Apr 16th 2016, 3:04 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Take proof that you have actually submitted a spousal application and it has initially been granted and politely ask for a 12 month visitor record.
Its up to the examining officer if they believe you are a risk of overstaying or working illegally while awaiting PR status to finally be approved.
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Old Apr 16th 2016, 3:51 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Thank you, we'll definitely be printing out and bringing our application fees receipt and correspondence we've received regarding our application.
I don't want to push my luck but I'll try asking for a 12 month visitor record, I suppose you never know if and extra 6 months might come in handy if there is a delay or problem with my part of the visa application...
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 12:58 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Some people buy a return ticket on a flexible/cancellable fare, and then cancel the ticket after coming across the border.

Honestly, more of the reason for the return ticket is more for the airline as opposed to immigration. The airline won't board you if they don't think you'll be allowed entry to your destination because if you are turned away then the cost of returning you to your origin is on the airline. So if you try to board the plane on a one-way ticket without documented proof of being allowed into Canada (and they won't understand evidence of your sponsorship application as proof) then they may deny you boarding. (When my husband was flying into Canada on his one-way ticket he was already a PR as he had landed a few months before. He had to produce proof of his PR before he boarded the plane on a one-way ticket before they allowed him boarding.)

So I'd suggest having a return ticket on a flexible fare that you can either cancel or rearrange for your next trip home and saving the one-way flight for when you have your PR in hand.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 10:48 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

You may want to check ticket prices first as it may make your question irrelevant. I know when I checked for tickets from LHR to YVR last year it was almost exactly the same price to buy a return as a single (no idea why but these are airlines).
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 11:30 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Air Transat are the only airline I can recall offering an OK price for a single. For BA/AC it was more (as I recall) for a single than for a return (or maybe things have since changed?).

But others may know of other airlines.

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Old Apr 18th 2016, 2:22 pm
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Westjet have reasonably priced single fares too.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

OK thanks for all the tips, so it's more for the airline than immigration that the return is needed. I did think one option would be to book a more expensive but mostly refundable ticket.
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 8:52 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Just an update on how it went.

We flew from Gatwick via Air Transat with one way tickets to Toronto, at no point did anyone anywhere ask if we had return tickets (I had proof of funds just in case).

My wife and kids who are all Canadian citizens (so are precluded from getting eTAs) were traveling on their UK passports. They were not questioned for not having eTAs so it seems to be almost redundant until it becomes mandatory in the fall. We brought proof of them all being Canadians just in case.

The passport control guy didn't want to see any of our supporting documents, just our passports. He just sent us over to the Immigration area where I asked the officer for a 12 month visitor record. That guy didn't want to see any of our papers either as he said he could see my application on his screen. He said my PR had been approved 2 days prior to our arrival which was nice.

We then went to Customs to sort out our goods to follow and get another form filled in and copied.

I have to say everyone we spoke to was very pleasant and helpful, it couldn't have gone much better.

One more thing, we landed in Toronto about 2pm on a Saturday and the airport was very quiet, no queues anywhere. If anyone is flying to Toronto with kids that might be a good time to plan to arrive.
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 9:31 am
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Thanks for the update.

Glad it all went well.

I like it when are kind enough to post back to say exactly what did happen.

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Old Apr 30th 2016, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

*People are kind enough
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Originally Posted by Scott_Chegg
Our sponsorship approval was granted in early December we are thinking of travelling to Canada soon (me with dual intent) in hopes that my PR application is approved in the coming months.

My wife and children are all Canadian citizens but as a UK citizen I would be able to live in Canada for 6 months as a visitor, my eTA has been approved (I provided the details of my current visa application).

I've read on this forum that you must buy a return ticket to show your intent to leave. It's unlikely that I would return to the UK without my wife and children, so in the event of my visa not being approved we would probably all fly back to the UK together. Would they also all need return tickets?

Buying a return ticket seems to me like merely paying lip service, surely someone who intended to try to stay in Canada illegally would also be prepared to buy a return ticket with no intentions of ever using it?

If I brought with me a current bank statement showing enough funds for my family to live on for at least 6 months and buy return tickets for all of us, wouldn't that also be considered as evidence that I intended to live as a visitor and be able to return to the UK if necessary?

About 8 years ago my wife and I previously came to Canada for 6 months without return tickets while she applied for her UK visa with no problems.

I don't really want to spend over a thousand pounds on air tickets that hopefully we'll not have to use.

On this page point 7 seems to suggest that proof of funds is equal to a return ticket: Temporary residents: Eligibility and admissibility considerations
From personal experience:

We submitted our forms on 6th November and I flew to Toronto on the 16th December 2015. By that time we'd not yet had SA so I expected to enter as a tourist and wasn't really looking for the dual-intent. As I wasn't able to work in Canada, I'd booked a return flight to England for the 29th March (4 months later).

When I got to immigration (the second one), I told them I was in the application process and stated my reason for coming as 'visiting my wife'. The Immigration Officer punched my details into his system, asked my DOB and found me on his computer. He even confirmed my wife's address back to me. So my info was on his system well before we got SA. He asked how long I intended to stay and I told him 4 months (as I couldn't afford to live without working, we'd decided to return March 29th). He said "oh, ok then. I was going to give you a year's visa, but I'l just give you 4 months if you're leaving in March". I said "Yeah, I know about dual-intent but I can't afford to stay that long" and he said "yeah that's the one. Never mind"

So basically, I don't think you'd NEED the return flight, Immigration can use their common sense and judgement. A man with a Canadian wife and (dual-)Canadian kids is hardly likely to have ambitions of becoming an illegal immigrant. Also, my return flight was with a different company and was booked 3-4 months apart to my outbound flight. No-one ever asked me if I had a return flight booked.

Good luck
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Old Apr 30th 2016, 6:29 pm
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Default Re: Dual intent, sorry bit of a long winded question...

Originally Posted by Scott_Chegg
Just an update on how it went.

We flew from Gatwick via Air Transat with one way tickets to Toronto, at no point did anyone anywhere ask if we had return tickets (I had proof of funds just in case).

My wife and kids who are all Canadian citizens (so are precluded from getting eTAs) were traveling on their UK passports. They were not questioned for not having eTAs so it seems to be almost redundant until it becomes mandatory in the fall. We brought proof of them all being Canadians just in case.

The passport control guy didn't want to see any of our supporting documents, just our passports. He just sent us over to the Immigration area where I asked the officer for a 12 month visitor record. That guy didn't want to see any of our papers either as he said he could see my application on his screen. He said my PR had been approved 2 days prior to our arrival which was nice.

We then went to Customs to sort out our goods to follow and get another form filled in and copied.

I have to say everyone we spoke to was very pleasant and helpful, it couldn't have gone much better.

One more thing, we landed in Toronto about 2pm on a Saturday and the airport was very quiet, no queues anywhere. If anyone is flying to Toronto with kids that might be a good time to plan to arrive.

Just seen this (after typing my reply). It seems we had similar experiences (minus you getting actual PR).

Great news!
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