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Does anybody know if this is true?

Does anybody know if this is true?

Old Nov 1st 2005, 3:36 am
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Default Does anybody know if this is true?

I would like to know if the paragrapghs below are TRUE or FALSE.

“Part-time employment / work experience can be equalized to full-time, for the purposes of immigrating to Canada."

"To equalize numbers of years of part-time employment to full-time, use the following formula: Divide the Total Number of Hours Worked by 37.5, then divide this answer by 52. The final answer is the Total Number of Years Worked, in full-time equivalence."

I found those paragraphs in this website:
http://www.e-ca.ca/definitions.htm

I have total 8206 hours of work experience since Jan 2000 as a Systems Analyst. Can I claim more than 4 years of work experience when applying for a Canadian PR?

Do you think same rules apply to Quebec process too?

Thanks much.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 4:11 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Sounds right.

Doesnt it have to be continuous part time employment to count? some distant bell is ringing, but I'm not sure.

Last edited by iaink; Nov 1st 2005 at 4:14 am.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 4:42 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

First of all - never rely on any website other than www.cic.gc.ca for information about Canadian immigration. More - always consult relevant laws, rules and regulations to see exact answers.

Work experience -

(1) Skilled Worker must have at least 12 months of full time (or full time equivalent), paid and continuous work experience in one or more skilled occupation as listed in NOC matrix, skills level 0, A and B.

(2) Part time work experience should be converted to full time equivalent using 37.5 hrs/week or 1,950 hrs/yr as full time. Any overtime work or any other excess of 37.5 hrs/wk has to be dismissed. Thus the formula you quoted is highly misleading as it doesn't take into account the rule limiting counted experience to not more than 1 full time experience in any given period, regardless how many hours per week you worked in excess of 37.5 hours. See R80(4) here for exact wording of the law:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec80.html



Originally Posted by nirakar
I would like to know if the paragrapghs below are TRUE or FALSE.

“Part-time employment / work experience can be equalized to full-time, for the purposes of immigrating to Canada."

"To equalize numbers of years of part-time employment to full-time, use the following formula: Divide the Total Number of Hours Worked by 37.5, then divide this answer by 52. The final answer is the Total Number of Years Worked, in full-time equivalence."

I found those paragraphs in this website:
http://www.e-ca.ca/definitions.htm

I have total 8206 hours of work experience since Jan 2000 as a Systems Analyst. Can I claim more than 4 years of work experience when applying for a Canadian PR?

Do you think same rules apply to Quebec process too?

Thanks much.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 4:58 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
First of all - never rely on any website other than www.cic.gc.ca for information about Canadian immigration. More - always consult relevant laws, rules and regulations to see exact answers.

Work experience -

(1) Skilled Worker must have at least 12 months of full time (or full time equivalent), paid and continuous work experience in one or more skilled occupation as listed in NOC matrix, skills level 0, A and B.

(2) Part time work experience should be converted to full time equivalent using 37.5 hrs/week or 1,950 hrs/yr as full time. Any overtime work or any other excess of 37.5 hrs/wk has to be dismissed. Thus the formula you quoted is highly misleading as it doesn't take into account the rule limiting counted experience to not more than 1 full time experience in any given period, regardless how many hours per week you worked in excess of 37.5 hours. See R80(4) here for exact wording of the law:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec80.html
Thanks Mr. Miller for explaining the law better.

I am still having hard time figuring out how many years of work experience I can claim.

Here is the detail of my work history:

Total hours worked each year:
Year 2000---1135.00
Year 2001---1491.90
Year 2002---1301.31
Year 2003---1800.48
Year 2004---1408.50
Year 2005---1068.86

Total Hours: 8206.05

Computer Systems Analyst------Jan 2000---Apr 2002 (Part-time Student Employee)
--------------------------------received an undergraduate degree and terminated for 2 months
--------------------------------came back after 2 months at the same job as a full-time
Systems Analyst----------------Jul 2002---Aug 2003 (Full-time Staff Employee)
--------------------------------started master’s degree on Sept 2, 2003
Systems Analyst----------------Sept 2003---Dec 2004 (Part-time Student Employee)
Systems Analysts’ Supervisor----Dec 2004---Dec 2005 (Part-time Student Employee)
--------------------------------will receive master’s degree in Dec 2005

Full-time = 40 hours per week (average)
Part-time = 20 hours per week or less

If you could tell me exactly how many years of work experience I can claim, I would appreciate your help forever.

Thanks

Last edited by nirakar; Nov 1st 2005 at 5:01 am.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 5:59 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Look like you can't claim any of the year you listed as full time year.

Do the math - you have to count every week you worked 37.5 hours or more as a 1 full time week (regardless how many hours beyond 37.5 you worked). 52 full time weeks = 1 full time year. As for all part time weeks - add all of worked hours together and divide by 1,950 to get number of years of full time equivalent.

Originally Posted by nirakar
Thanks Mr. Miller for explaining the law better.

I am still having hard time figuring out how many years of work experience I can claim.

Here is the detail of my work history:

Total hours worked each year:
Year 2000---1135.00
Year 2001---1491.90
Year 2002---1301.31
Year 2003---1800.48
Year 2004---1408.50
Year 2005---1068.86

Total Hours: 8206.05

Computer Systems Analyst------Jan 2000---Apr 2002 (Part-time Student Employee)
--------------------------------received an undergraduate degree and terminated for 2 months
--------------------------------came back after 2 months at the same job as a full-time
Systems Analyst----------------Jul 2002---Aug 2003 (Full-time Staff Employee)
--------------------------------started master’s degree on Sept 2, 2003
Systems Analyst----------------Sept 2003---Dec 2004 (Part-time Student Employee)
Systems Analysts’ Supervisor----Dec 2004---Dec 2005 (Part-time Student Employee)
--------------------------------will receive master’s degree in Dec 2005

Full-time = 40 hours per week (average)
Part-time = 20 hours per week or less

If you could tell me exactly how many years of work experience I can claim, I would appreciate your help forever.

Thanks
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 6:37 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Look like you can't claim any of the year you listed as full time year.

Do the math - you have to count every week you worked 37.5 hours or more as a 1 full time week (regardless how many hours beyond 37.5 you worked). 52 full time weeks = 1 full time year. As for all part time weeks - add all of worked hours together and divide by 1,950 to get number of years of full time equivalent.
Thanks Mr. Miller again.

Why can't I claim this as my full-time work for a year?
Systems Analyst----------------Jul 2002---Aug 2003 (Full-time Staff Employee)

Anyway, I had to go more than 4 different places (within the company) to find out how many hours I worked each year. I do not think they have any information about how many hours I worked each week.

Do the immigration officers ask that kind of documents showing hours worked each week?

Bottomline is my boss is ready to help me and he is willing to write the way it makes better evaluation of my work experience.

What if my boss writes something like this:
-------------
This is to certify that........(my name)....worked with.....(organization name)...as a Systems Analyst under me from Jan 2000 to Dec 2005. He was a student employee and worked part-time during school years (Sept-April) and full-time during summers (May-Aug) and holidays.

We hired him full-time after his undergraduate degree and worked as a staff employee from July 2002 to August 2003 until he started his graduate study in Sept 2003. While he was a graduate student, he kept working as a student employee in part-time basis until he graduated in Dec 2005.

After talking to human resource dept. and payroll, I found out that he has worked total of 8300 hours from Jan 2000 to Dec 2005. The total hours worked by ......(my name)....each year have been attached with this letter.
-------------
Please let me know what you think Mr. Miller.

Thanks
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 7:23 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

I think it is going to be almost impposible for me to find out how many hours I worked each week in 2000/2003 (during my full-time employement).

In that case, can I ask my boss to write a letter saying I was employed there from Jan 2000 to Dec 2005 as a Systems Analyst in part-time basis and made 8300 hours during that period? And calculate that hours according to the formula you have provided and claim the years of full-time work experience?

8300/1950=4.25 years.

Could you please look at my employement history one more time and let me know if I am eligible to apply for a Canadian PR (in the case that I do not claim I have full-time work experience)?

Thanks for your time and you have been very helpful.

Last edited by nirakar; Nov 1st 2005 at 7:28 am.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 7:36 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Originally Posted by nirakar
Systems Analyst----------------Jul 2002---Aug 2003 (Full-time Staff Employee)
Maybe I'm being thick, but that looks like one years elligiable continuous full time experience, the required minimum. All the rest of the partime work, although not continuous, would be able to be converted using the 37.5 hrs a week calculation for possible additional points.

The additional legalise AM refered to seems to me to basically be saying you cant for example have 2 full time jobs in any given year and hope to claim additional points for additional experience. Only one years experience can be crammed into one year, no matter how long you work.

Work in excess

(4) A period of work experience that exceeds full-time work in one occupation, or simultaneous periods of work experience in more than one full-time occupation, shall be evaluated as a single period of full-time work experience in a single occupation.


But I am not an expert! Maybe someone can explain.

Dont get your boss to write a letter than tarts up the facts and makes them something they are not, the technical term for that is "lying" and its frowned upon by CIC!

Last edited by iaink; Nov 1st 2005 at 7:38 am.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 7:57 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Originally Posted by iaink
Maybe I'm being thick, but that looks like one years elligiable continuous full time experience, the required minimum. All the rest of the partime work, although not continuous, would be able to be converted using the 37.5 hrs a week calculation for possible additional points.

Dont get your boss to write a letter than tarts up the facts and makes them something they are not, the technical term for that is "lying" and its frowned upon by CIC!
Thanks iaink for the message. Only reason I was going to ask my boss to write the kind of letter I was talking about is that it seems so complicated to calculate my work experience. I was just wanted to make it simple and easy. Thanks for helping me to walk in the right path.

Anyway, both you and Mr. Miller are talking about continuous work, but I do not find that anywere in the CIC website and in this website: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec80.html

This is from CIC website (the place where you pick how many years of work experience you have in self assesment page)
"You must have at least one year of full-time paid work experience, or the equivalent in part-time work, in an occupation listed in the National Occupational Classification (NOC) list. Your experience must be listed in an occupation listed in Skill Type 0 or Skill Levels A or B of the NOC and it must have occurred in the past 10 years. You must have performed most of the duties, including all the essential duties, that are listed for the occupation."

And this is from that website above.
"80. (1) Up to a maximum of 21 points shall be awarded to a skilled worker for full-time work experience, or the full-time equivalent for part-time work experience, within the 10 years preceding the date of their application, as follows:"

Anyway, I do not want to make this thing too complicated. All I would like to know is if I am eligible to apply and if yes, how many years of work experience I can claim.

Thank you so much for both of you.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 8:21 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Originally Posted by nirakar

Anyway, both you and Mr. Miller are talking about continuous work, but I do not find that anywere in the CIC website and in this website: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec80.html
http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec75.html

75.2 (a)
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 8:42 am
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Cool Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Originally Posted by nirakar
I think it is going to be almost impposible for me to find out how many hours I worked each week in 2000/2003 (during my full-time employement).
Hi nirakar,

Normally the work-week is clearly mentioned in the Contract that you sign with your employer (even for the part-time student workers). And then its better if that same number (working hours/week) is mentioned in the Employment Reference Letter as well. Havnt you got any similar contract through which you can claim that number of hours you worked ?

I'm not sure if this is practiced everywhere around the world. At least I had this thing mentioned for all my contracts & reference letters from Germany and Dubai.

anyways I wish you all the best that you can sort out this matter quickly and join our gang (waiting club )

Ghanghro
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 10:45 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Presumably a 'working year' would also include the hours you spent on paid holiday.

I dont see why July 2002 to August 2003 does not qualify as a full time year. If it is 52 consecutive weeks working (or on paid holiday) a minimum of 37.5 hours per week then surely it is a 'full time year'.
 
Old Nov 1st 2005, 11:57 am
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

I appreciate everybody trying to help me. I still need help to come up with a conclusion. Whatever the case, it looks like I am qualified to apply as a federal skilled worker (after reading the paragraph from this link: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec75.html). Only thing left for me to figure out is how many years of work experience I can claim.

I just received this report from the student employment office today. Things are little bit different than what I intially thought.

01/27/2000 to 05/10/2002 = student employee
I left this job in 04/25/2002, but their record says I was terminated in 05/10/2002.

I was rehired as full-time staff on 07/03/2002.
07/03/2002 to 05/02/2003 = staff employee
I found out that I was terminated in 05/02/2003 as staff employee instead of 08/30/2003. It looks like they put me back as student employee as soon as I got accepted to the graduate school. Anyway, I did not know anything about it until now and I kept working full-time until Aug 30, 2003 (it was summer time and it was ok to work full-time anyway). My boss knows the situation and he is ok to write full-time during this period (from 07/02/2002 to 08/30/2003).

05/02/2003 to 12/16/2005=student employee

This is what it says in the report I have received.

“Per...(Organization name)…policy, undergraduate are allowed to work up to 20 hrs/wk during fall and winter semesters and up to 40 hrs/wk during spring and summer terms. Graduate students are allowed to work up to 30 hrs/wk during fall and winter semesters, in their field of study. Students are paid biweekly.”

When they say spring and summer terms, they are talking about May thru Aug.

Can I calculate my hours according to the paragraph above?

I do not have a contract letter. I have signed so many forms, but I do not know which one was the contract letter and I do not have anything with me, but I am sure I can get whatever letter I need from my supervisor or student employment office.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

This is the short form of my work history that I came up with.

Jan 27, 2000 to April 25, 2005---student employee (part-time--Sept to Apr and full-time--May to Aug)
July 3, 2002 to August 30, 2003---staff/student employee (full-time, 39-40 hours per week)
Sept 1, 2003 to Dec 16, 2005---student employee (part-time--Sept to Apr and full-time--May to Aug)

There was no difference between staff and student employee as I was getting paid exactly same hourly wage and there was no other benefits, even health insurance. It was just 40 hours week, that's it.

Please help me to calculate my years of work experience. All I have is total hours worked each year (regular hour & over time), nothing about weekly hours.

Thanks for your time and help.
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 2:36 pm
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Default Re: Does anybody know if this is true?

Employment reference letters must provide the following:

- period of employment
- position
- duties performed
- hours per week worked
- salary

Business card of person signing reference letter must be attached and information provided will be verified.

So, now take your verifiable reference letters and add up your employment periods and don't forget to convert part times to full time equivalent.

If you cannot do such simple thing yourself then I have strong doubts about your ability to prepare a conclusive application package without professional assistance of authorized immigration practitioner.


Originally Posted by nirakar
This is the short form of my work history that I came up with.

Jan 27, 2000 to April 25, 2005---student employee (part-time--Sept to Apr and full-time--May to Aug)
July 3, 2002 to August 30, 2003---staff/student employee (full-time, 39-40 hours per week)
Sept 1, 2003 to Dec 16, 2005---student employee (part-time--Sept to Apr and full-time--May to Aug)

There was no difference between staff and student employee as I was getting paid exactly same hourly wage and there was no other benefits, even health insurance. It was just 40 hours week, that's it.

Please help me to calculate my years of work experience. All I have is total hours worked each year (regular hour & over time), nothing about weekly hours.

Thanks for your time and help.
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