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Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Old Nov 14th 2016, 9:09 am
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Default Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

When my family and l decided to apply for PR under skilled workers prog, the age for dependants was 22, my daughter at the time was 16 and is now 20 and at University in U.K. We thought she had not enough time in Canada to keep her PR, but now I am thinking that she might be able to keep it as she is under 22 and when she permanently arrives in Canada to live, she will still only be 21 or 22. What does she say to immigration when arriving for visits when clearly, she won't have sufficient days to retain PR? Thank you

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Old Nov 14th 2016, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

I moved your post to a thread of it's own in the Immi forum - you're more likely to get specific advice this way.

How long has she been out of Canada - and how long has she spent in Canada since she 'landed'?


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Old Nov 14th 2016, 9:46 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Thank you. She initiated it to get the card, which was duly sent and it is weeks in country not months. We moved to Canada to ensure we got our 730 days in, but she has no hope of getting them in during the first 5 years, as we spent almost 3 years in UK trying to decide if Canada was to be our future. Do I need an immigration lawyer to help resolve her particular problem?

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Old Nov 14th 2016, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Yorkiechef
Thank you. She initiated it to get the card, which was duly sent and it is weeks in country not months. We moved to Canada to ensure we got our 730 days in, but she has no hope of getting them in during the first 5 years, as we spent almost 3 years in UK trying to decide if Canada was to be our future. Do I need an immigration lawyer to help resolve her particular problem?
You should consult with one and read through the thread 730 days currently on the 1st page of the Immigration forum.
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Old Nov 14th 2016, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
You should consult with one and read through the thread 730 days currently on the 1st page of the Immigration forum.
TY, will do.

ENF23 7.1. - I read this positively! Am I on the right track?

If the combined total of days is still less than 730 days, the residency obligation may still be met if there are humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to the permanent resident, taking into account the best interests of a child directly affected by the determination, that justify retention of permanent resident status.

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Old Nov 14th 2016, 7:57 pm
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Yorkiechef
TY, will do.

ENF23 7.1. - I read this positively! Am I on the right track?

If the combined total of days is still less than 730 days, the residency obligation may still be met if there are humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to the permanent resident, taking into account the best interests of a child directly affected by the determination, that justify retention of permanent resident status.
I can't see how H&C grounds would apply to your situation tbh. It's for more serious situations, sorry if this sounds blunt but your daughter chose to go to uni in the UK when she could have done so in Canada, so it's not really something that was totally unavoidable.

If she definitely won't meet the RO, then I think you'll have to hope that the age of the dependent child is reduced in time for you to sponsor her for PR again, although she'll need to officially renounce her PR status first as well.

JMO though, and I think a consultation with an immi lawyer would be money well spent just in case they can see a way around it.
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Old Nov 14th 2016, 10:01 pm
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Yorkiechef
TY, will do.

ENF23 7.1. - I read this positively! Am I on the right track?

If the combined total of days is still less than 730 days, the residency obligation may still be met if there are humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to the permanent resident, taking into account the best interests of a child directly affected by the determination, that justify retention of permanent resident status.
There have been cases referred to the IRB where children who became PR but then attended University outside Canada did not meet the 730 day residency obligation and then later returned to family living in Canada. They were reported for non compliance however in a few of these cases it was argued that at the time they were still classed as dependent children and were not completely aware of the decision they took. Also what was factored in was had they returned to Canada at the 1st earliest opportunity i.e. on completion of their studies rather than finishing school then working in that country. I can't exactly recall the case I read on Canli
https://www.canlii.org/en/


Actually found one case that is similar where the appellant won their case
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc...&resultIndex=1

ANALYSIS

[10] The female appellant attended her hearing and testified. She also submitted evidence to support her appeal. In order to render its decision, the panel finds that the criteria established by the case law are useful for determining whether it must use its discretion to grant special relief. The non‑exhaustive list of criteria is as follows:

• the time the female appellant spent in Canada and her degree of establishment in Canada before leaving the country;

• the sustained contact that the female appellant has with members of her family in Canada;

• the reasons why the female appellant left Canada, her situation while she was living outside of Canada, and her attempts to return to Canada;

• the attempts that the female appellant made to return at the first possible opportunity to re‑establish herself in Canada;

• the hardship or dislocation to her family members in Canada if the female appellant were to lose her permanent residence;

• the hardship to the female appellant if she were to lose her permanent residence and had to return to her country of citizenship; and

• any special or particular circumstances in the female appellant’s case.

[11] The weight to be given to the different factors varies from one appeal to another, depending on the circumstances of the case.

Last edited by Former Lancastrian; Nov 14th 2016 at 10:34 pm. Reason: More info
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 3:25 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Thank you, that information is very useful. Much appreciate your valuable contribution.
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 5:29 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

I'm wondering if the fact that you decided to remain in the UK for several years after obtaining PR - which meant she would have had no option to come/remain in Canada herself, as a minor - could be a mitigating factor.

Is there any way that she could transfer to a Canadian Uni to complete her studies, rather than remain in the UK?

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Old Nov 15th 2016, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

As you can see, the situation is complex with lots of unknowns and no black and white answers. Take Christmas's and FL's advice and consult a lawyer or an immigration consultant who specializes in residency obligations and residency appeals. Essentially, I agree with Christmas on balance that H&C would be hard to argue based on the fact that she is an adult and she hasn't tried to return to Canada at the first opportunity. No one is making her stay in the UK. But that's a very superficial evaluation of what you have written. It's not usually straightforward and no one can possibly tell you of the outcome on the forum. In a Residency Oblgation appeal at the IAD it depends on how compelling the case is and what evidence there is to support it.

S

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Old Nov 15th 2016, 12:22 pm
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Siouxie
I'm wondering if the fact that you decided to remain in the UK for several years after obtaining PR - which meant she would have had no option to come/remain in Canada herself, as a minor - could be a mitigating factor.

Is there any way that she could transfer to a Canadian Uni to complete her studies, rather than remain in the UK?

She has time to complete in UK before hitting 22, she had decided to read at a UK UNI before we had made our final decision, didn't want to delay the start of her studies. She doesn't regret this, our main problem is that when she visits at Christmas, she needs to have her ducks in a row ready for CBSA. Push comes to shove, we will help her with the process of doing the PR THING AGAIN....but yes, I think her starting her degree a year before we came here is a mitigating factor in my opinion. Regards
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 3:01 pm
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Yorkiechef
She has time to complete in UK before hitting 22, she had decided to read at a UK UNI before we had made our final decision, didn't want to delay the start of her studies. She doesn't regret this, our main problem is that when she visits at Christmas, she needs to have her ducks in a row ready for CBSA. Push comes to shove, we will help her with the process of doing the PR THING AGAIN....but yes, I think her starting her degree a year before we came here is a mitigating factor in my opinion. Regards
Actually, I meant more before she started Uni - as in your choice to remain in the UK when she was under 18/19 - when she didn't have much choice other than to remain in the UK with her parent(s) while attending secondary school.

I was suggesting that it may be in her best interests - PR wise - to switch to Canada to complete her studies. I suspect that the powers that be may say she did not return to Canada at the first opportunity if she remains in the UK until she is 21/22. Perhaps it would be worth her while to consider it now, before it's too late.

I definitely think you need independant immigration advice - from a qualified consultant. Do make sure they are registered.
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Old Nov 15th 2016, 4:01 pm
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

I read the case of the Argentinian lady that once she started university, she hadn't established a permanent home, the court acknowledged that this is done once you finish education and start work, so taking this into account for my daughter, she couldn't have moved to Canada as she didn't have the resource before Uni, and she can't do it until she has finished her education. There are other factors of course, This is the interesting part...

"The panel finds it very troubling that the visa officer made the female appellant choose between signing a form to renounce her permanent resident status and renouncing her studies at Harvard in order to show that she intended to come live in Canada"

So in effect,the court have said that the first real opportunity for her to set up residence was after she finished her education and that was when she finished Uni aged 25! My daughter will be 21 and still a dependant , I think we have a case.

There are many similarities to my daughters situation, I am comfortable that this is worth perusing.

Last edited by Yorkiechef; Nov 15th 2016 at 4:13 pm.
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 2:13 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Just a quick update, scanned our documents including pr cards in uk and Canada at the quick entry machines now at the airports, let in without a question. So she still has PR. HNY!
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 2:40 am
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Default Re: Dependant returning to Canada after studies in UK - still PR?

Originally Posted by Yorkiechef
Just a quick update, scanned our documents including pr cards in uk and Canada at the quick entry machines now at the airports, let in without a question. So she still has PR. HNY!
For the time she has BUT remember if she leaves Canada and then returns in the near future i.e. within the next 2 years it could be discovered that she doesn't meet the residency obligation example

Leaves in June 2017 and returns July 2017. Between July 2012 and July 2017 does she have the required 730 days?
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