Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada > Immigration & Citizenship (Canada)
Reload this Page >

Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Old Feb 15th 2005, 9:12 pm
  #1  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Shropshire England
Posts: 41
Jaynie is an unknown quantity at this point
Unhappy Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

On december 17 we received request for medicals and a requirement for a court order or parental declaration from my sons father.

When I checked the childrens act 1989 it states that the only person that can release a child from a country is a person with Parental Responsibility (that is only me). It states that if a residency order IS in place you have to get a court order or parental declaration, there is no residency order in place.

Origonally I sent the declaration signed by myself witnessed by a magistrate, along with the court order, and the relevant section of the childrens act stating these facts.

My son also now has my married name which I had to go through the courts to get and has a passport in the same name, the documents I sent to the passport office were good enough.

On the 2nd of Feb a letter came saying they still needed a court order or declaration, I went into blind panick and visited my family solicitor that dealt with the case 12 years ago. She could not understand why I needed either of these documents as the fact that I have sole Parental Responsibility and there is no Residency Order in place. she suggested that she fax the CHC first stating the facts and asking them what legislation they are refering to in asking for these details. She first faxed the CHC on 4th Feb, no reply and has re faxed since, still no reply.

I am now tearing my hair out to find out anything, Im so depressed and fed up the light at the end of the tunnel keeps appearing then someone blows the flippin thing out.

How long will it take them to reply to either of us, and is there anything I can do to find out if they are still going to ask for either of these documents. I have now spoken to 2 family solicitors and both of them say that the CHC must have made a mistake cos there is no reason why they need these documents specifically. Iv even trawled the Geneva convention incase its that but there is no mention of anything in there either.

Please help anyone im losing it and feeling very deperate, I did read a while ago there is an emergency phone number for the embassy but cant find it now and dont really want to annoy the CHC so much they say no cos im a pain.

Applied April 2003
AOR May 2003
Med R Dec 2004
Med Jan 20 2005

Ta Jaynie
Jaynie is offline  
Old Feb 15th 2005, 9:28 pm
  #2  
Faire de la *fluff fluff*
 
Fluffy Boogie's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Amsterdam (currently)
Posts: 248
Fluffy Boogie has a spectacular aura aboutFluffy Boogie has a spectacular aura aboutFluffy Boogie has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by Jaynie
On december 17 we received request for medicals and a requirement for a court order or parental declaration from my sons father.

When I checked the childrens act 1989 it states that the only person that can release a child from a country is a person with Parental Responsibility (that is only me). It states that if a residency order IS in place you have to get a court order or parental declaration, there is no residency order in place.

Origonally I sent the declaration signed by myself witnessed by a magistrate, along with the court order, and the relevant section of the childrens act stating these facts.

My son also now has my married name which I had to go through the courts to get and has a passport in the same name, the documents I sent to the passport office were good enough.

On the 2nd of Feb a letter came saying they still needed a court order or declaration, I went into blind panick and visited my family solicitor that dealt with the case 12 years ago. She could not understand why I needed either of these documents as the fact that I have sole Parental Responsibility and there is no Residency Order in place. she suggested that she fax the CHC first stating the facts and asking them what legislation they are refering to in asking for these details. She first faxed the CHC on 4th Feb, no reply and has re faxed since, still no reply.

I am now tearing my hair out to find out anything, Im so depressed and fed up the light at the end of the tunnel keeps appearing then someone blows the flippin thing out.

How long will it take them to reply to either of us, and is there anything I can do to find out if they are still going to ask for either of these documents. I have now spoken to 2 family solicitors and both of them say that the CHC must have made a mistake cos there is no reason why they need these documents specifically. Iv even trawled the Geneva convention incase its that but there is no mention of anything in there either.

Please help anyone im losing it and feeling very deperate, I did read a while ago there is an emergency phone number for the embassy but cant find it now and dont really want to annoy the CHC so much they say no cos im a pain.

Applied April 2003
AOR May 2003
Med R Dec 2004
Med Jan 20 2005

Ta Jaynie
I'm sorry I have no advice to give you, unfortunately, but I wanted to let you know there will be light at the end of the tunnel... it just seems so damned far away
All I can say from personal experience is - when it looks pretty sh**y out there, there's always something else that can top it.
And, I truly believe things happen for a reason. I would suggest waiting again for a reply, or have your friend call them instead of fax them. It might be faster. Just do all you can and don't give up.
And if you have really given all you can, then all you can do is wait - and that's the worst. But I am sure that things will work out for you - where there's a will there's a way - and with some many friends on this forum, I'm sure you'll come out smelling the roses.....
Good luck with everything,
Fluffy
Fluffy Boogie is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2005, 7:47 pm
  #3  
JAJ
Retired
 
JAJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
JAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by Jaynie
How long will it take them to reply to either of us, and is there anything I can do to find out if they are still going to ask for either of these documents. I have now spoken to 2 family solicitors and both of them say that the CHC must have made a mistake cos there is no reason why they need these documents specifically. Iv even trawled the Geneva convention incase its that but there is no mention of anything in there either.

Please help anyone im losing it and feeling very deperate, I did read a while ago there is an emergency phone number for the embassy but cant find it now and dont really want to annoy the CHC so much they say no cos im a pain.

Applied April 2003
AOR May 2003
Med R Dec 2004
Med Jan 20 2005

Ta Jaynie
Hire yourself a reputable Canadian immigration practitioner to take up the issue with CIC. An online forum is not going to help much.

I don't know about Canada, but if you were applying to Australia it would be possible for a good agent to raise an issue like this with central office in Canberra if there was a problem.


Jeremy
JAJ is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2005, 2:02 am
  #4  
Premium Member
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Ontario.
Posts: 1,928
Tiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of lightTiaribbon is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Hi Jaynie,

My experience with CHC has been similar although not the same issue.

CHC informed me by letter that I would need to surrender RCMP fingerprints even though I had never lived in Canada. I guess they assumed that since we owned a property here, that we had lived here which we never had. They asked for these in the summer of last year and I replied asking whether this letter had been sent in error. No reply. Sent another letter asking if this was sent in error, they replied about 3 weeks later saying that RCMP prints were NOT required.

I think you just have to keep badgering them to get an answer.
Tiaribbon is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2005, 2:42 am
  #5  
little snowy owl
 
Alberta_Rose's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,921
Alberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond reputeAlberta_Rose has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

I wondered if you might get somewhere if you could manage to travel down to the CHC, or even maybe to Sandown immigration show, and get to actually TALK to somebody?

Alberta_Rose is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2005, 9:36 am
  #6  
Cynically amused.
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
dingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by Jaynie
On december 17 we received request for medicals and a requirement for a court order or parental declaration from my sons father.

When I checked the childrens act 1989 it states that the only person that can release a child from a country is a person with Parental Responsibility (that is only me). It states that if a residency order IS in place you have to get a court order or parental declaration, there is no residency order in place.

Origonally I sent the declaration signed by myself witnessed by a magistrate, along with the court order, and the relevant section of the childrens act stating these facts.

My son also now has my married name which I had to go through the courts to get and has a passport in the same name, the documents I sent to the passport office were good enough.

On the 2nd of Feb a letter came saying they still needed a court order or declaration, I went into blind panick and visited my family solicitor that dealt with the case 12 years ago. She could not understand why I needed either of these documents as the fact that I have sole Parental Responsibility and there is no Residency Order in place. she suggested that she fax the CHC first stating the facts and asking them what legislation they are refering to in asking for these details. She first faxed the CHC on 4th Feb, no reply and has re faxed since, still no reply.

I am now tearing my hair out to find out anything, Im so depressed and fed up the light at the end of the tunnel keeps appearing then someone blows the flippin thing out.

How long will it take them to reply to either of us, and is there anything I can do to find out if they are still going to ask for either of these documents. I have now spoken to 2 family solicitors and both of them say that the CHC must have made a mistake cos there is no reason why they need these documents specifically. Iv even trawled the Geneva convention incase its that but there is no mention of anything in there either.

Please help anyone im losing it and feeling very deperate, I did read a while ago there is an emergency phone number for the embassy but cant find it now and dont really want to annoy the CHC so much they say no cos im a pain.

Applied April 2003
AOR May 2003
Med R Dec 2004
Med Jan 20 2005

Ta Jaynie

I think if you search on the Canada forum you will find some threads about this. You (and the UK solicitors) have misunderstood the point here - you will have to get the biological father to sign - they will not allow you to complete the process without his declaration that it is OK for you to take his child into Canada to live (not out of the UK - there is a difference). It is nothing to do with UK family law - it is a Canadian legal requirement. Parental responsibility and " residency" do not exist here as such. Custody, guardianship etc still do. I have sole custody and guardianship of all of my kids - but I cannot even take them out of this country now without a declaration from my ex that he agrees. I had sole parental responsibility in the UK too and no residency order. My ex had to sign a declaration in the UK that he agreed to his children going to live in Canada. There is no way around it as far as I know. My case got horribly messy, but the details are not relevant to your question. The father has to sign.

Last edited by dingbat; Feb 19th 2005 at 9:38 am.
dingbat is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2005, 11:06 am
  #7  
JAJ
Retired
 
JAJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
JAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by dingbat
I think if you search on the Canada forum you will find some threads about this. You (and the UK solicitors) have misunderstood the point here - you will have to get the biological father to sign - they will not allow you to complete the process without his declaration that it is OK for you to take his child into Canada to live (not out of the UK - there is a difference). It is nothing to do with UK family law - it is a Canadian legal requirement. Parental responsibility and " residency" do not exist here as such. Custody, guardianship etc still do. I have sole custody and guardianship of all of my kids - but I cannot even take them out of this country now without a declaration from my ex that he agrees. I had sole parental responsibility in the UK too and no residency order. My ex had to sign a declaration in the UK that he agreed to his children going to live in Canada. There is no way around it as far as I know. My case got horribly messy, but the details are not relevant to your question. The father has to sign.
I cannot speak specifically for Canada, but if it's anything to do with the Hague Convention it's *not* a requirement. The Hague Convention is based on the principle that the laws of the child's home country normally apply.

Lots of people, including some migration agents and migration officers, believe what you say applies for Australia - it doesn't. I wouldn't automatically believe it applies this way for Canada either without seeing reference to the exact law and regulation.

Jeremy
JAJ is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2005, 11:35 am
  #8  
Cynically amused.
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
dingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond reputedingbat has a reputation beyond repute
Thumbs down Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by JAJ
I cannot speak specifically for Canada, but if it's anything to do with the Hague Convention it's *not* a requirement. The Hague Convention is based on the principle that the laws of the child's home country normally apply.

Lots of people, including some migration agents and migration officers, believe what you say applies for Australia - it doesn't. I wouldn't automatically believe it applies this way for Canada either without seeing reference to the exact law and regulation.

Jeremy
This was my precise argument at the time (1996) - and I got a snippy letter back from CHC saying that without the declaration letter they were under no obligation to proceed with my application...if I did not provide it they would assume that I no longer wished to proceed. Canadian bureaucrats are intransigent. I have been here nearly nine years and know this to my cost.

Last edited by dingbat; Feb 19th 2005 at 11:37 am.
dingbat is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2005, 11:41 am
  #9  
JAJ
Retired
 
JAJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
JAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by dingbat
This was my precise argument at the time (1996) - and I got a snippy letter back from CHC saying that without the declaration letter they were under no obligation to proceed with my application...if I did not provide it they would assume that I no longer wished to proceed. Canadian bureaucrats are intransigent. I have been here nearly nine years and know this to my cost.
Again - speaking for Australia - a migration professional simply will not accept such a request unless it is based on proper legal grounds and will use every avenue available, formal and informal, to bring things back into line.

For Canada, that's the IRPA and supporting regulations and policies. Ultimately, everything CIC do is subject to the law.

Sure - sometimes it's easier to play along, take the line of least resistance if the ex is willing to sign - but if not then other solutions need to be explored.

As as for 'not proceeding' with an application, again I can't speak for Canada but under Australian law a valid application *must* be considered, and either granted or refused based on the law.


Jeremy

Last edited by JAJ; Feb 19th 2005 at 11:50 am.
JAJ is offline  
Old Feb 20th 2005, 3:01 am
  #10  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 90
chrisfearon will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by Jaynie
On december 17 we received request for medicals and a requirement for a court order or parental declaration from my sons father.

When I checked the childrens act 1989 it states that the only person that can release a child from a country is a person with Parental Responsibility (that is only me). It states that if a residency order IS in place you have to get a court order or parental declaration, there is no residency order in place.

Origonally I sent the declaration signed by myself witnessed by a magistrate, along with the court order, and the relevant section of the childrens act stating these facts.

My son also now has my married name which I had to go through the courts to get and has a passport in the same name, the documents I sent to the passport office were good enough.

On the 2nd of Feb a letter came saying they still needed a court order or declaration, I went into blind panick and visited my family solicitor that dealt with the case 12 years ago. She could not understand why I needed either of these documents as the fact that I have sole Parental Responsibility and there is no Residency Order in place. she suggested that she fax the CHC first stating the facts and asking them what legislation they are refering to in asking for these details. She first faxed the CHC on 4th Feb, no reply and has re faxed since, still no reply.

I am now tearing my hair out to find out anything, Im so depressed and fed up the light at the end of the tunnel keeps appearing then someone blows the flippin thing out.

How long will it take them to reply to either of us, and is there anything I can do to find out if they are still going to ask for either of these documents. I have now spoken to 2 family solicitors and both of them say that the CHC must have made a mistake cos there is no reason why they need these documents specifically. Iv even trawled the Geneva convention incase its that but there is no mention of anything in there either.

Please help anyone im losing it and feeling very deperate, I did read a while ago there is an emergency phone number for the embassy but cant find it now and dont really want to annoy the CHC so much they say no cos im a pain.

Applied April 2003
AOR May 2003
Med R Dec 2004
Med Jan 20 2005

Ta Jaynie
My wife has got two children from previous marriage although we have sole custody you cannot take children out of the country without the fathers consent it is seen as abduction even for holidays. we went to see a solicitorto get a court order and was told that it was pointless and would not be worth the paper it is written on. So we had to get the fathers consent we got a piece of paper stating that he did not mind the children leaving the uk for canada which he signed in front of witnesses.

hope this is of help.
chrisfearon is offline  
Old Feb 20th 2005, 7:30 am
  #11  
JAJ
Retired
 
JAJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
JAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

Originally Posted by chrisfearon
My wife has got two children from previous marriage although we have sole custody you cannot take children out of the country without the fathers consent it is seen as abduction even for holidays.
That's not what the UK Passport Service says:
http://www.passports.gov.uk/_1_appli..._abduction.asp


Jeremy
JAJ is offline  
Old Feb 21st 2005, 7:41 am
  #12  
Here and happy at last
 
gooding's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 784
gooding has a brilliant futuregooding has a brilliant futuregooding has a brilliant futuregooding has a brilliant futuregooding has a brilliant futuregooding has a brilliant futuregooding has a brilliant future
Default Re: Damily Problem Please Help Im losing the will to live

You are right it does say you can take them out of country for up to a month.

I have also read about court cases allowing children to be taken out of the country to emigrate, even if the remaining parent does not agree. A court has to look at the whole picture and what is in the best interest of the children.

I do find it against all that is written as far as sole custody etc. to flaty refuse processing if ex partner will not agree to to providing a letter of approval. I would have thought there has to be some court intervention in some cases.
I have very amicable realtionship with my daughters father , but he has no parental rights. He has not had to ask for them, as I have never put him in a situation to have to ask, nor denied acces whenever he and she wants.
Once children are over 16 they do not need parents approval either.
I also feel for many fathers as I do believe they get a rough deal when it comes to divorce access etc. Some ma be justified but many are not.



=JAJ]That's not what the UK Passport Service says:
http://www.passports.gov.uk/_1_appli..._abduction.asp


Jeremy[/QUOTE]
gooding is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.