Infidel

"splitman2000" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My main concern is really how to minimise exchange losses. USD seems a
    > little weak at the moment, so i thought perhaps I should get USD first
    > in the hope that it will strengthen again later which allows me to use
    > it to buy CND at a more favourable rate. Of course, if the increase is
    > insignificant, it's probably not enough to cover my exchange losses
    > (twice - home currency to USD, USD to CND).

The best way to minimise losses is to leave the money in an account based on
that currency, and use either an interac/debit card, or a credit card
(their fees for international exchange are competitive) for purchases of
goods or services. Avoid any direct currency exchanges if possible -
whomever offers the exchange service takes a cut, be it with a fee, or a
reduced rate of exchange. For investment purposes, if you want to simply
use a bank account as a investment avenue (cash), however undesirable, US
currency is the basis for the value of all world currencies, and in my
opinion, if I for some reason wanted to invest in a cash account, a US-based
cash investment is not unreccomendable.

Stuart Brook

Infidel wrote:
    >
    > "Aikido251" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > No there are no commissions.
    >
    > Bureaux de change and banks make money off currency exchanges. Take the
    > example of a previous poster in this thread. Go to a bank or bureau de
    > change with 100.00 CAN. Change it into USD. Then change it back to $CAN.
    > Count the money in your hand. I DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!
    >
    > ****ing retarded numbskull. You know nothing.



I talked with my banker ... here's his reply ...

    >> The retail banking market often does not charge an explicit commission
    >> in a currency exchange transaction. There is, however, an implicit
    >> commission in the posted retail buy and sell rates for a given
    >> currency, which is why you will find the retail banks spread on the
    >> buy and sell rates greater than the spread on the wholesale buy and
    >> sell rates. Which is also why the exchange rate is different for
    >> different monetary instruments, to cover the different costs of
    >> handling the instrument.
    >> So to say that there is no commission is wrong, the customer just pays
    >> the commission in a different way.

Kevin Goertz

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:56:31 -0500, "Infidel"
wrote:

    >The best way to minimise losses is to leave the money in an account based on
    >that currency, and use either an interac/debit card, or a credit card
    >(their fees for international exchange are competitive) for purchases of
    >goods or services. Avoid any direct currency exchanges if possible -
    >whomever offers the exchange service takes a cut, be it with a fee, or a
    >reduced rate of exchange. For investment purposes, if you want to simply
    >use a bank account as a investment avenue (cash), however undesirable, US
    >currency is the basis for the value of all world currencies, and in my
    >opinion, if I for some reason wanted to invest in a cash account, a US-based
    >cash investment is not unreccomendable.

That is not entirely true.
Debit cards and credit cards do charge a 'commission' for currency
conversion. The last time I checked the conversion rate was slightly
higher than a banks. I believe that debit cards are usually use the
banks posted rates, however there is often an additional service
charge (depending on your bank).
The best rate is always at a currency broker.

As for a US based cash investment... the fact that the US currency is
used wordwide doesn't make it a good investment. What is important is
how the US dollar will change relative to the other currencies (like
Canadian). And that can be difficult to predict.

Joachim Feise

Aikido251 wrote:
    > Ignore Stuart Brook who's a troll. He doesn't even live in Canada so he would
    > not know.

You got proven wrong, and that's your answer? Welcome to my killfile.

Splitman2000

Good grief. 45 messages on and I'm still no wiser whether I should
carry CAD or USD with me. Such varied views. I guess I'll go ahead
with CAD then. At least it gives me peace of mind, if nothing else.
Thanks anyway guys for your input. Enlightening.

Stuart Brook

splitman2000 wrote:
    >
    > Good grief. 45 messages on and I'm still no wiser whether I should
    > carry CAD or USD with me. Such varied views. I guess I'll go ahead
    > with CAD then. At least it gives me peace of mind, if nothing else.
    > Thanks anyway guys for your input. Enlightening.

It's very clear that you should carry CAD ... unless you want to believe
an asshole like Aikido.

Chris

My cousin will land in Canada in about two months, and he will carry all the
settlement funds (cash or travelers cheques I don't know) in US$ only. If
you bring cash with you, there is NO commission at any bank, or at least
CIBC where I have my bank account, to exchange US$ into C$ and vice-versa.
If you bring your funds into travelers cheques, to cash them it will cost
you 1% commission (CIBC), US$ or C$. Any bank, or private exchange office in
Canada (one of them is Thomas Cook) will gladly take your US$ and give you
back C$, and vice-versa. My advice to you, if you are not afraid of coming
here with cash, even is US$10,000 (in 100 bills), bring here cash and you
won't have to pay any commission when cashing your travelers cheques. But if
you bring all your funds in travelers cheques, I suggest you bring some in
C$ and some in US$, maybe you will want to open an US$ bank account, all
banks, American Express, ING Direct, etc., give you the opportunity to open
in Canada an US$ account.
Chris in Toronto

"splitman2000" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Good grief. 45 messages on and I'm still no wiser whether I should
    > carry CAD or USD with me. Such varied views. I guess I'll go ahead
    > with CAD then. At least it gives me peace of mind, if nothing else.
    > Thanks anyway guys for your input. Enlightening.

Stuart Brook

Chris wrote:
    >
    > My cousin will land in Canada in about two months, and he will carry all the
    > settlement funds (cash or travelers cheques I don't know) in US$ only. If
    > you bring cash with you, there is NO commission at any bank, or at least
    > CIBC where I have my bank account, to exchange US$ into C$ and vice-versa.
    > If you bring your funds into travelers cheques, to cash them it will cost
    > you 1% commission (CIBC), US$ or C$. Any bank, or private exchange office in
    > Canada (one of them is Thomas Cook) will gladly take your US$ and give you
    > back C$, and vice-versa. My advice to you, if you are not afraid of coming
    > here with cash, even is US$10,000 (in 100 bills), bring here cash and you
    > won't have to pay any commission when cashing your travelers cheques. But if
    > you bring all your funds in travelers cheques, I suggest you bring some in
    > C$ and some in US$, maybe you will want to open an US$ bank account, all
    > banks, American Express, ING Direct, etc., give you the opportunity to open
    > in Canada an US$ account.
    > Chris in Toronto

Good grief ... are you Aikido in disguise ?

There *is* a commission to exchange currency ... although it's not an
explicit commission (i.e. charged as a line item), it's implicit in the
exchange rate quoted by the bank, which is why the buy and sell rates
are different. Look at the Bank of Canada exchange rate and compare
that with the exchange rate on the same day quoted by a retail bank for
say buying US$. You'll find that the rate is lower at the retail bank.
The reason is the implicit commisison.

If you change foreign currency to US$ and then to CDN$ you will come
away with fewer than if you change foreign currency directly to CDN$

Aikido251

No commision on USD exchange rate transactions.....

Chris

Bank of Canada is the lender for all Canadian Banks and all other financial
institutions in this country. In US is the Federal Reserve. No private
individual or private company has access directly to the Bank of Canada.
That's why Banks and all other financial institutions like President's
Choice, Amex or ING Direct have their own rates (either is interest rates,
exchange rates, etc.) in order to make a profit. They buy, or borrow money,
from Bank of Canada and resell it at a higher price. This is a common
procedure everywhere in the world. They do it in order to stay in business.
Do you want CIBC to buy US$, or C$, at one rate and resell it to you at the
same rate? Therefore, the rate Bank of Canada is giving out every day (and
that is mainly done during the TSX's business hours) is just for general
information, nobody in this country can buy or sell dollars at the rate Bank
of Canada is posting every day. Therefore, the rate which affects each and
every citizen of this country is the one of the bank you are doing business
with. You go to CIBC you find one rate, you go to TD maybe you find another
rate, you go to Royal Bank maybe another one, and so on. The exchange rate
(for buying and selling US$, C$ or any other hard currency) posted by the
private bank is the only one anybody doing a financial transaction should
pay attention to all the time. No Bank of Canada, but CIBC, TD, Royal Bank,
ING, Amex, etc.
Now, if you have CASH in hand, either is C$, or US$, or Euro, or British
Pound, or Yen, etc., you will exchange that money into the currency you want
to at the EXACT rate that particular bank or other financial institution you
are doing business with has to offer. For you, as a private citizen, Bank of
Canada with its daily rates is non-existent. The rate that particular bank
or financial institution is the ONLY one you can rely on. You don't like it,
nobody tells you to exchange any money. Simple as that. But when you use
CASH to exchange money from one currency to another there is NO commission
added-up on top of the bank's exchange rate. But if you come here with
travelers cheques and you want to cash them, US$ into C$, C$ into US$,
anything into anything (as long as they are able to accept your money and
give you the currency you would like to buy), on top of that exchange rate
that bank or financial institution offers at that particular moment you will
have to pay a commission, at CIBC is 1%. Therefore, NO commission when you
use CASH, just the exchange rate used by that bank or financial institution,
or exchange office (like Thomas Cook), but X% commission when you want to
cash a travelers cheque.
The best thing, if you come here with US$, is not to exchange all of it in
C$, but to open an US savings account, besides the normal C$ chequing
account. You never know when US$, the most powerful currency in the world,
will bounce back. I myself have an US$ and C$ savings investment account,
also a C$ chequing account (for my daily transactions, mostly bills),
everybody should have a diversified financial portfolio.
You people might have something against Aikido, that's your own problem, but
in this case he/she is right, there is NO commission when you have cash in
your pocket, including US$, and would like to exchange it into another
currency.
Chris

"Stuart Brook" wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
    > Chris wrote:
    > >
    > > My cousin will land in Canada in about two months, and he will carry all
the
    > > settlement funds (cash or travelers cheques I don't know) in US$ only.
If
    > > you bring cash with you, there is NO commission at any bank, or at least
    > > CIBC where I have my bank account, to exchange US$ into C$ and
vice-versa.
    > > If you bring your funds into travelers cheques, to cash them it will
cost
    > > you 1% commission (CIBC), US$ or C$. Any bank, or private exchange
office in
    > > Canada (one of them is Thomas Cook) will gladly take your US$ and give
you
    > > back C$, and vice-versa. My advice to you, if you are not afraid of
coming
    > > here with cash, even is US$10,000 (in 100 bills), bring here cash and
you
    > > won't have to pay any commission when cashing your travelers cheques.
But if
    > > you bring all your funds in travelers cheques, I suggest you bring some
in
    > > C$ and some in US$, maybe you will want to open an US$ bank account, all
    > > banks, American Express, ING Direct, etc., give you the opportunity to
open
    > > in Canada an US$ account.
    > > Chris in Toronto
    > Good grief ... are you Aikido in disguise ?
    > There *is* a commission to exchange currency ... although it's not an
    > explicit commission (i.e. charged as a line item), it's implicit in the
    > exchange rate quoted by the bank, which is why the buy and sell rates
    > are different. Look at the Bank of Canada exchange rate and compare
    > that with the exchange rate on the same day quoted by a retail bank for
    > say buying US$. You'll find that the rate is lower at the retail bank.
    > The reason is the implicit commisison.
    > If you change foreign currency to US$ and then to CDN$ you will come
    > away with fewer than if you change foreign currency directly to CDN$

Stuart Brook

Chris wrote:

    > That's why Banks and all other financial institutions like President's
    > Choice, Amex or ING Direct have their own rates (either is interest rates,
    > exchange rates, etc.) in order to make a profit.

And what do you call commission ? It is the bank's cut to make a
profit. You can include it in your posted exchange rate (implicit
commission), or charge with your own exchange rate (explicit
commission).

But when you use
    > CASH to exchange money from one currency to another there is NO commission
    > added-up on top of the bank's exchange rate.

That' doesn't mean there is no commission ... it's just not an EXPLICIT
commission ... the commission is factored into the exchange rate.

But if you come here with
    > travelers cheques and you want to cash them, US$ into C$, C$ into US$,
    > anything into anything (as long as they are able to accept your money and
    > give you the currency you would like to buy), on top of that exchange rate
    > that bank or financial institution offers at that particular moment you will
    > have to pay a commission, at CIBC is 1%. Therefore, NO commission when you
    > use CASH, just the exchange rate used by that bank or financial institution,
    > or exchange office (like Thomas Cook), but X% commission when you want to
    > cash a travelers cheque.

And that's not always true either. The commission in that case
represents a charge for handling the instrument (the travellers
cheque). There is still an implicit commission in the exchange rate.
Some companies do not charge a commission on selling or cashing
travellers cheques btw.

Even the credit card companies do not all charge an explicit commission,
again it is an implicit commission factored into the exchange rate.

    > The best thing, if you come here with US$, is not to exchange all of it in
    > C$, but to open an US savings account, besides the normal C$ chequing
    > account. You never know when US$, the most powerful currency in the world,
    > will bounce back. I myself have an US$ and C$ savings investment account,
    > also a C$ chequing account (for my daily transactions, mostly bills),
    > everybody should have a diversified financial portfolio.
    > You people might have something against Aikido, that's your own problem, but
    > in this case he/she is right, there is NO commission when you have cash in
    > your pocket, including US$, and would like to exchange it into another
    > currency.
    > Chris

Absolutely WRONG. Take GB Pounds, buy US$ in GB, come to Canada, change
them into CDN$ here, you will have less than if you buy CDN$ with your
GB Pounds.

As to it being a hedge against exchange rates, because the exchange rate
market is so spooked by the slightest thing, with the situation in the
middle east, and in Korea, I would most certainly take the route of
changing direct to CDN$ ... if you have money to spare and want to try
to hedge the money markets, then by all means play, but be prepared to
lose because you can lose just as easily as you can win, and unless you
are really good at playing the money markets, chances are probably
greater that you'll lose, especially when trying to concern yourself
with the potentially overwhelming hassles of immigration.

Both you and Aikido are wrong to say there is no commission, just
because the commission is implicit in the exchange rate. Commission on
instruments is, as you say, the way banks make their money on exchange
transactions. On travellers cheques it's simply how to cover their
handling charges (although why $1000 of travellers cheques costs more to
handle than $100 is another matter!)

Stuart

Richard

Lets look at this another way

Say that you want to change $1000 US into Canadian,

You go to two exchange places (banks or whatever)

One will give you an exchange rate of 1.50 and charge a commission of
$5

The other will give you a rate 1.49 but with no commission

Which do you go with ?

Well the first will give you $1500 - $5 = $1495

The second will give you $1490

Thus the bank charging the explicit commission is the better deal.

When changing money it is the combined effect of the explicit
commission and the exchange rate that is important. As Stuart and
others have said the difference between the buy and selll is in
reality a commission.

Will US Dollars be a better bet than Canadian in the short or medium
term. Might be, might not be - I don't know if I did I would be
making a fortune

Richard

Aikido251

Ignore Stuart...he always divert the from the argument when he is wrong (which
99.999999999% of the time). the current question between Chris and Stuart and
some other guys is IS THERE COMMISSION when exhanging USD to CND...the answer
is NO there are no commisions, the banks (TD, CIBC, etc. says so because then
don;t so collect commisions)...LIke I said if in doubt goto your bank tommorow
(today is Sunday banks are closed) and exchange USD or any other currency to
CND, you will know that there are no commission. Stuart is a clown guys.

    >Subject: Re: Canadian or US dollars?
    >From: Richard [email protected]
    >Date: 3/2/03 4:19 PM Atlantic Standard Time
    >Message-id:
    >Lets look at this another way
    >Say that you want to change $1000 US into Canadian,
    >You go to two exchange places (banks or whatever)
    >One will give you an exchange rate of 1.50 and charge a commission of
    >$5
    >The other will give you a rate 1.49 but with no commission
    >Which do you go with ?
    >Well the first will give you $1500 - $5 = $1495
    >The second will give you $1490
    >Thus the bank charging the explicit commission is the better deal.
    >When changing money it is the combined effect of the explicit
    >commission and the exchange rate that is important. As Stuart and
    >others have said the difference between the buy and selll is in
    >reality a commission.
    >Will US Dollars be a better bet than Canadian in the short or medium
    >term. Might be, might not be - I don't know if I did I would be
    >making a fortune
    >Richard

Chris

Commission? What's on top of the exchange rate posted by a particular
financial institution. Implicit, explicit commission, Stuart, do you think
that a newcomer is interested in so sophisticated financial terminology? I
myself found out from you about this "implicit" and "explicit" commissions,
and I have done hundred of thousands of transactions in Canada.
In my case I just gave some simple answers, plain English hopefully, when
you use CASH you do the exchange based on the exchange rate ONLY, but when
you want to cash travelers cheques you will be asked for a commission (1% at
CIBC) on top of the exchange rate. Therefore, what's the best to save money,
cash or travelers cheques?
And I also said that US$ are very welcome in Canada, and it's up to each
individual to bring here US$, C$, BG Pounds, Euro, etc. Furthermore,
something that I haven't said before, the best would be for each immigrant
to be allowed to come here with any hard currency, either is C$, or US$, or
Euro, or GB Pounds, or Yen, etc. You get the PR status at any Port of Entry,
and then it's up to you if you want to exchange your money, all or just
partially, in C$. I don't know if my last idea is valid for immigration (PR)
purposes, if yes I think that should be the best bet.
You said: "Some companies do not charge a commission on selling or cashing
travelers cheques btw". You forgot to mention at least one of them, if you
know them and want to help, tell everybody about them. That shows to be
helpful, right?
Chris

"Stuart Brook" wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
    > Chris wrote:
    > > That's why Banks and all other financial institutions like President's
    > > Choice, Amex or ING Direct have their own rates (either is interest
rates,
    > > exchange rates, etc.) in order to make a profit.
    > And what do you call commission ? It is the bank's cut to make a
    > profit. You can include it in your posted exchange rate (implicit
    > commission), or charge with your own exchange rate (explicit
    > commission).
    > But when you use
    > > CASH to exchange money from one currency to another there is NO
commission
    > > added-up on top of the bank's exchange rate.
    > That' doesn't mean there is no commission ... it's just not an EXPLICIT
    > commission ... the commission is factored into the exchange rate.
    > But if you come here with
    > > travelers cheques and you want to cash them, US$ into C$, C$ into US$,
    > > anything into anything (as long as they are able to accept your money
and
    > > give you the currency you would like to buy), on top of that exchange
rate
    > > that bank or financial institution offers at that particular moment you
will
    > > have to pay a commission, at CIBC is 1%. Therefore, NO commission when
you
    > > use CASH, just the exchange rate used by that bank or financial
institution,
    > > or exchange office (like Thomas Cook), but X% commission when you want
to
    > > cash a travelers cheque.
    > And that's not always true either. The commission in that case
    > represents a charge for handling the instrument (the travellers
    > cheque). There is still an implicit commission in the exchange rate.
    > Some companies do not charge a commission on selling or cashing
    > travellers cheques btw.
    > Even the credit card companies do not all charge an explicit commission,
    > again it is an implicit commission factored into the exchange rate.
    > > The best thing, if you come here with US$, is not to exchange all of it
in
    > > C$, but to open an US savings account, besides the normal C$ chequing
    > > account. You never know when US$, the most powerful currency in the
world,
    > > will bounce back. I myself have an US$ and C$ savings investment
account,
    > > also a C$ chequing account (for my daily transactions, mostly bills),
    > > everybody should have a diversified financial portfolio.
    > > You people might have something against Aikido, that's your own problem,
but
    > > in this case he/she is right, there is NO commission when you have cash
in
    > > your pocket, including US$, and would like to exchange it into another
    > > currency.
    > > Chris
    > Absolutely WRONG. Take GB Pounds, buy US$ in GB, come to Canada, change
    > them into CDN$ here, you will have less than if you buy CDN$ with your
    > GB Pounds.
    > As to it being a hedge against exchange rates, because the exchange rate
    > market is so spooked by the slightest thing, with the situation in the
    > middle east, and in Korea, I would most certainly take the route of
    > changing direct to CDN$ ... if you have money to spare and want to try
    > to hedge the money markets, then by all means play, but be prepared to
    > lose because you can lose just as easily as you can win, and unless you
    > are really good at playing the money markets, chances are probably
    > greater that you'll lose, especially when trying to concern yourself
    > with the potentially overwhelming hassles of immigration.
    > Both you and Aikido are wrong to say there is no commission, just
    > because the commission is implicit in the exchange rate. Commission on
    > instruments is, as you say, the way banks make their money on exchange
    > transactions. On travellers cheques it's simply how to cover their
    > handling charges (although why $1000 of travellers cheques costs more to
    > handle than $100 is another matter!)
    > Stuart

Richard

    >You said: "Some companies do not charge a commission on selling or cashing
    >travelers cheques btw". You forgot to mention at least one of them, if you
    >know them and want to help, tell everybody about them. That shows to be
    >helpful, right?
    >Chris

Royal Bank does not charge explicit commission when selling travellers
cheques provided that you have a Visa Gold Card (including the free
one) - you have to ask for it because most of their staff do not knwo
about it