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Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

Old Sep 24th 2003, 12:25 am
  #1  
Yankexpat
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Default Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

I'm a US citizen, born and raised in the US, and would like to become
a Canadian citizen partly for travel reasons, thinking that it would
be somewhat better to travel with Canadian documents. It just seems
that the US is becoming more and more hated in the world, and not just
by Islamist terrorists.

My question is this:

Will my new Canadian Citizenship Certificate and Passport show my
place of birth (USA)? That would be evidence that I'm probably a US
citizen.

Also, if I give up my US citizenship and travel to the US using my
Canadian documents, I will get a major hassle everytime from US
immigration/customs officials who will notice I was born in the US so
should be using US documents to enter the US. I don't even want to
think how they might react if I told them "I've renounced my US
citizenship". I believe there's even legislation that could bar me
from re-entering the US ever again under those circumstances, if they
decide to start enforcing that law.

Many thanks in advance.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 3:15 am
  #2  
Andrew Miller
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

First - you cannot just "obtain" Canadian citizenship for your purpose. You
must first become Canadian permanent resident (about 2 years long process if
you qualify) and after moving to Canada as a PR you must live here for at
least 3 years (accumulate 1,095 days of residency) to be eligible to apply
for citizenship. And citizenship process will take about a year or so. Thus
you will have (if you meet all of the above) Canadian citizenship and
passport not sooner than 6+ years from the day you apply for Canadian PR.

Second - Passport will include place of your birth. You may opt not to have
it listed, but many countries will not let you in with such passport without
place of birth listed.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"yankexpat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I'm a US citizen, born and raised in the US, and would like to become
    > a Canadian citizen partly for travel reasons, thinking that it would
    > be somewhat better to travel with Canadian documents. It just seems
    > that the US is becoming more and more hated in the world, and not just
    > by Islamist terrorists.
    > My question is this:
    > Will my new Canadian Citizenship Certificate and Passport show my
    > place of birth (USA)? That would be evidence that I'm probably a US
    > citizen.
    > Also, if I give up my US citizenship and travel to the US using my
    > Canadian documents, I will get a major hassle everytime from US
    > immigration/customs officials who will notice I was born in the US so
    > should be using US documents to enter the US. I don't even want to
    > think how they might react if I told them "I've renounced my US
    > citizenship". I believe there's even legislation that could bar me
    > from re-entering the US ever again under those circumstances, if they
    > decide to start enforcing that law.
    > Many thanks in advance.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 3:40 am
  #3  
\"Half-Canadian\
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

<SNIP>

    > > Also, if I give up my US citizenship and travel to the US using my
    > > Canadian documents, I will get a major hassle everytime from US
    > > immigration/customs officials who will notice I was born in the US so
    > > should be using US documents to enter the US. I don't even want to
    > > think how they might react if I told them "I've renounced my US
    > > citizenship".

In my own experience, when I entered the US from Canada as a US
Citizen/Canadian PR, I was often detained for lengthy questioning by US
Customs and INS. When I became a dual US and Canadian citizen, the
questioning became even more intense -- about every third or fourth time I
now enter the US I am detained for questioning that often lasts over an
hour, despite the fact that I have *never* done or said anything that would
give them cause.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 3:59 am
  #4  
Renee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

Thanks for posting that, "Half-Canadian." I've wondered about how it would
work once my PR process was complete and I returned to the U.S. to visit
family for a few days, ie. do you present your U.S. passport or your
Canadian PR card, and how many questions do you have to deal with?

If the U.S. policy is to recognize a dual U.S./Canadian citizenship, then
there shouldn't be any problem crossing the border in theory. I figured the
reality may be different. What kinds of questions did they ask you for over
an hour? That seems very excessive.

Renee

--
Inland Spouse Timeline so far:
19 Feb 2003: Moved to Calgary from U.S. on 6 month TRV
12 May 2003: Did medicals in Calgary
20 June 2003: Applied for TRV extension
5 July 2003: Wedding Date
17 July 2003: CIC received inland spouse PR application
15 Aug 2003: Received 6 month TRV extension
20 Aug 2003: CIC request for work history dates (which were sent with
application)
21 Aug 2003: CIC received work history reply by overnight post
4 Sept 2003: CIC e-Client finally shows "in process"
""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > <SNIP>
    > > > Also, if I give up my US citizenship and travel to the US using my
    > > > Canadian documents, I will get a major hassle everytime from US
    > > > immigration/customs officials who will notice I was born in the US so
    > > > should be using US documents to enter the US. I don't even want to
    > > > think how they might react if I told them "I've renounced my US
    > > > citizenship".
    > In my own experience, when I entered the US from Canada as a US
    > Citizen/Canadian PR, I was often detained for lengthy questioning by US
    > Customs and INS. When I became a dual US and Canadian citizen, the
    > questioning became even more intense -- about every third or fourth time I
    > now enter the US I am detained for questioning that often lasts over an
    > hour, despite the fact that I have *never* done or said anything that
would
    > give them cause.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 4:37 am
  #5  
\"Half-Canadian\
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

"Renee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8bjcb.12422$I36.8551@pd7tw3no...
    > Thanks for posting that, "Half-Canadian." I've wondered about how it
would
    > work once my PR process was complete and I returned to the U.S. to visit
    > family for a few days, ie. do you present your U.S. passport or your
    > Canadian PR card, and how many questions do you have to deal with?
    > If the U.S. policy is to recognize a dual U.S./Canadian citizenship, then
    > there shouldn't be any problem crossing the border in theory. I figured
the
    > reality may be different. What kinds of questions did they ask you for
over
    > an hour? That seems very excessive.
    > Renee

As a US citizen, you must enter the US on your US passport. Using a
different passport is one step towards denouncing your US citizenship, which
is not a good idea if you want to re-enter the US in the future. When
returning to Canada, you identify yourself as a Canadian citizen or PR,
whichever is the case.

I normally enter the US for one-day business trips to meet with clients.
Often I am just asked where I'm going. Other times, I'm sent inside for
detailed questioning while my vehicle is searched. Questions would
include -- where are you going, purpose of the trip, where you live, amount
of money or goods I am carrying with me, my occupation, names/addresses of
clients I am visiting in the US, number of employees I have. I have on
occasion found my car in a shambles when I leave -- papers strewn all over,
my dog's travel bed and my personal items on the ground outside the car,
etc. This rarely happens when I am going down for personal travel or
shopping, although one recent memorable trip down in my RV resulted in a
90-minute delay while they emptied the contents of all the cabinets and
drawers onto the floor and left it that way. The most *suspicious* item in
the RV was a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer :-)
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 5:11 am
  #6  
Robert
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Renee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:8bjcb.12422$I36.8551@pd7tw3no...
    > > Thanks for posting that, "Half-Canadian." I've wondered about how it
    > would
    > > work once my PR process was complete and I returned to the U.S. to visit
    > > family for a few days, ie. do you present your U.S. passport or your
    > > Canadian PR card, and how many questions do you have to deal with?
    > >
    > > If the U.S. policy is to recognize a dual U.S./Canadian citizenship,
then
    > > there shouldn't be any problem crossing the border in theory. I figured
    > the
    > > reality may be different. What kinds of questions did they ask you for
    > over
    > > an hour? That seems very excessive.
    > >
    > > Renee
    > As a US citizen, you must enter the US on your US passport. Using a
    > different passport is one step towards denouncing your US citizenship,
which
    > is not a good idea if you want to re-enter the US in the future. When
    > returning to Canada, you identify yourself as a Canadian citizen or PR,
    > whichever is the case.
    > I normally enter the US for one-day business trips to meet with clients.
    > Often I am just asked where I'm going. Other times, I'm sent inside for
    > detailed questioning while my vehicle is searched. Questions would
    > include -- where are you going, purpose of the trip, where you live,
amount
    > of money or goods I am carrying with me, my occupation, names/addresses of
    > clients I am visiting in the US, number of employees I have. I have on
    > occasion found my car in a shambles when I leave -- papers strewn all
over,
    > my dog's travel bed and my personal items on the ground outside the car,
    > etc. This rarely happens when I am going down for personal travel or
    > shopping, although one recent memorable trip down in my RV resulted in a
    > 90-minute delay while they emptied the contents of all the cabinets and
    > drawers onto the floor and left it that way. The most *suspicious* item
in
    > the RV was a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer :-)
Sounds about right to me.
Always found the "American" customs to be rude and arrogant, and even
ignorant of thier own border processes !

Shame because i would like to spend more time over there (and money) but
thier loss is canadas gain.

Once inside the US I have never had a problem though.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 6:07 am
  #7  
Renee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

*sigh* I guess I'm not really surprised by your post. I hear about people
who live in Canada and commute to the U.S. for work every day, so I was
hoping that it wouldn't be a big production crossing the border with dual
status. I suppose if I am just returning for a week to visit family and I
have a return ticket, I may not get as much flak, but I will fully expect
it.

Thanks for the reply.

Renee

--
Inland Spouse Timeline so far:
19 Feb 2003: Moved to Calgary from U.S. on 6 month TRV
12 May 2003: Did medicals in Calgary
20 June 2003: Applied for TRV extension
5 July 2003: Wedding Date
17 July 2003: CIC received inland spouse PR application
15 Aug 2003: Received 6 month TRV extension
20 Aug 2003: CIC request for work history dates (which were sent with
application)
21 Aug 2003: CIC received work history reply by overnight post
4 Sept 2003: CIC e-Client finally shows "in process"
""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Renee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:8bjcb.12422$I36.8551@pd7tw3no...
    > > Thanks for posting that, "Half-Canadian." I've wondered about how it
    > would
    > > work once my PR process was complete and I returned to the U.S. to visit
    > > family for a few days, ie. do you present your U.S. passport or your
    > > Canadian PR card, and how many questions do you have to deal with?
    > >
    > > If the U.S. policy is to recognize a dual U.S./Canadian citizenship,
then
    > > there shouldn't be any problem crossing the border in theory. I figured
    > the
    > > reality may be different. What kinds of questions did they ask you for
    > over
    > > an hour? That seems very excessive.
    > >
    > > Renee
    > As a US citizen, you must enter the US on your US passport. Using a
    > different passport is one step towards denouncing your US citizenship,
which
    > is not a good idea if you want to re-enter the US in the future. When
    > returning to Canada, you identify yourself as a Canadian citizen or PR,
    > whichever is the case.
    > I normally enter the US for one-day business trips to meet with clients.
    > Often I am just asked where I'm going. Other times, I'm sent inside for
    > detailed questioning while my vehicle is searched. Questions would
    > include -- where are you going, purpose of the trip, where you live,
amount
    > of money or goods I am carrying with me, my occupation, names/addresses of
    > clients I am visiting in the US, number of employees I have. I have on
    > occasion found my car in a shambles when I leave -- papers strewn all
over,
    > my dog's travel bed and my personal items on the ground outside the car,
    > etc. This rarely happens when I am going down for personal travel or
    > shopping, although one recent memorable trip down in my RV resulted in a
    > 90-minute delay while they emptied the contents of all the cabinets and
    > drawers onto the floor and left it that way. The most *suspicious* item
in
    > the RV was a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer :-)
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 6:53 am
  #8  
\"Half-Canadian\
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

If it's any consolation, I've never had any problems while travelling by
plane, only while travelling through a land border by private vehicle. One
of my neighbours is a retired couple who are US citizens that immigrated to
Canada through the retirement category (which is no longer available) about
20 years ago and later became dual US/CDN citizens. They have a second home
in Las Vegas, but consider Canada their primary residence and spend most of
their time here in BC. They have told me their experiences at the border
have been similar to mine -- and they are a sweet, kind, elderly couple who
wouldn't hurt a fly. They are often taken into separate rooms by the INS
and questioned about their motives for living in Canada for an hour or more
on most of their entries to the US to visit their grandchildren!

"Renee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:04lcb.3321$O85.725@pd7tw1no...
    > *sigh* I guess I'm not really surprised by your post. I hear about
people
    > who live in Canada and commute to the U.S. for work every day, so I was
    > hoping that it wouldn't be a big production crossing the border with dual
    > status. I suppose if I am just returning for a week to visit family and I
    > have a return ticket, I may not get as much flak, but I will fully expect
    > it.
    > Thanks for the reply.
    > Renee
    > --
    > Inland Spouse Timeline so far:
    > 19 Feb 2003: Moved to Calgary from U.S. on 6 month TRV
    > 12 May 2003: Did medicals in Calgary
    > 20 June 2003: Applied for TRV extension
    > 5 July 2003: Wedding Date
    > 17 July 2003: CIC received inland spouse PR application
    > 15 Aug 2003: Received 6 month TRV extension
    > 20 Aug 2003: CIC request for work history dates (which were sent with
    > application)
    > 21 Aug 2003: CIC received work history reply by overnight post
    > 4 Sept 2003: CIC e-Client finally shows "in process"
    > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Renee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:8bjcb.12422$I36.8551@pd7tw3no...
    > > > Thanks for posting that, "Half-Canadian." I've wondered about how it
    > > would
    > > > work once my PR process was complete and I returned to the U.S. to
visit
    > > > family for a few days, ie. do you present your U.S. passport or your
    > > > Canadian PR card, and how many questions do you have to deal with?
    > > >
    > > > If the U.S. policy is to recognize a dual U.S./Canadian citizenship,
    > then
    > > > there shouldn't be any problem crossing the border in theory. I
figured
    > > the
    > > > reality may be different. What kinds of questions did they ask you
for
    > > over
    > > > an hour? That seems very excessive.
    > > >
    > > > Renee
    > >
    > > As a US citizen, you must enter the US on your US passport. Using a
    > > different passport is one step towards denouncing your US citizenship,
    > which
    > > is not a good idea if you want to re-enter the US in the future. When
    > > returning to Canada, you identify yourself as a Canadian citizen or PR,
    > > whichever is the case.
    > >
    > > I normally enter the US for one-day business trips to meet with clients.
    > > Often I am just asked where I'm going. Other times, I'm sent inside for
    > > detailed questioning while my vehicle is searched. Questions would
    > > include -- where are you going, purpose of the trip, where you live,
    > amount
    > > of money or goods I am carrying with me, my occupation, names/addresses
of
    > > clients I am visiting in the US, number of employees I have. I have on
    > > occasion found my car in a shambles when I leave -- papers strewn all
    > over,
    > > my dog's travel bed and my personal items on the ground outside the car,
    > > etc. This rarely happens when I am going down for personal travel or
    > > shopping, although one recent memorable trip down in my RV resulted in a
    > > 90-minute delay while they emptied the contents of all the cabinets and
    > > drawers onto the floor and left it that way. The most *suspicious* item
    > in
    > > the RV was a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer :-)
    > >
    > >
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 9:47 am
  #9  
Rich Wales
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Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

"Renee" wrote:

> I've wondered about how it would work once my PR process
> was complete and I returned to the U.S. to visit family
> for a few days, ie. do you present your U.S. passport or
> your Canadian PR card . . .

US passport.

Even if you eventually become a Canadian citizen (which normally
means you'll still be a US citizen as well), the answer is still
the same: when dealing with US border officials, say you're a
US citizen, and show them your US passport (or, in some cases,
you can get away with other proof of US citizenship).

> If the U.S. policy is to recognize a dual U.S./Canadian
> citizenship, . . .

US law =permits= dual US/other citizenship, but a dual US/other
citizen has no special status (as far as the US is concerned) as
compared to someone who is a citizen of the US alone.

Whenever a dual US/Canadian citizen deals with US officials, he
should =always= identify himself as a US citizen (not a Canadian
citizen or a "dual" citizen).

Canadian law is similar, BTW -- a dual Canadian/US citizen is no
different in Canada's eyes than someone who is =only= a Canadian
citizen -- and a dual Canadian/US citizen should always identify
himself as a Canadian citizen when dealing with Canadian officials.
Canadian officials probably won't get nearly as hissy-fitty about
the issue as their US counterparts, though.

I personally prefer not to use the verb "recognize" when talking
about dual citizenship policy, since there is way too much room
for confusion -- i.e., many people who say the US doesn't "recog-
nize" dual citizenship actually believe (incorrectly) that the US
doesn't =allow= its citizens to have any other citizenship.

Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org
*NOTE: I've lived in both Canada and the US and have dual citizenship.
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 9:50 am
  #10  
Rich Wales
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

"Half-Canadian" wrote:

> As a US citizen, you must enter the US on your US passport.

True.

> Using a different passport is one step towards denouncing
> your US citizenship . . . .

I assume you meant "renouncing", not "denouncing".

Actually, US citizenship is harder to lose now than it once was.
It's not at all obvious under the State Dept.'s current (since 1990)
policy on loss of citizenship (http://travel.state.gov/loss.html)
that using a foreign passport to enter the US would lead to loss of
one's US citizenship. I still wouldn't recommend doing it, though.

Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org
*NOTE: I've lived in both Canada and the US and have dual citizenship.
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 11:03 am
  #11  
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Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

Originally posted by \"Half-Canadian\

In my own experience, when I entered the US from Canada as a US
Citizen/Canadian PR, I was often detained for lengthy questioning by US
Customs and INS. When I became a dual US and Canadian citizen, the
questioning became even more intense -- about every third or fourth time I
now enter the US I am detained for questioning that often lasts over an
hour, despite the fact that I have *never* done or said anything that would
give them cause.
I find this very interesting as I have never been sent in for questioning or had my car searched in the 2 1/2 years I have been living in Canada as a PR. I go back to the US at least once a month, sometimes for business and sometimes just to grocery shop. It doesn't seem to make any difference if I am alone or with my Canadian citizen husband.

Perhaps it is where I cross (mostly Queenston/Lewiston or 1000 Islands) or maybe it is because I am a white female with a distinctly Southern accent? Hard to say why different people get treated in such drastically different manners.
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Old Sep 24th 2003, 11:09 am
  #12  
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Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

Originally posted by \"Half-Canadian\
If it's any consolation, I've never had any problems while travelling by
plane, only while travelling through a land border by private vehicle.
I see from another part of this post you are in BC while I am in Ontario. I guess that is the difference as the US border guards in NY seem to be a bit less "nasty" than their western counterparts. I am certainly glad I haven't had the "pleasure" of a 60 minute interview and dumping of my car's contents!
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Old Sep 24th 2003, 12:25 pm
  #13  
Stephen Gallagher
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Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

"\"Half-Canadian\"" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > If it's any consolation, I've never had any problems while travelling by
    > plane, only while travelling through a land border by private vehicle. One
    > of my neighbours is a retired couple who are US citizens that immigrated to
    > Canada through the retirement category (which is no longer available) about
    > 20 years ago and later became dual US/CDN citizens. They have a second home
    > in Las Vegas, but consider Canada their primary residence and spend most of
    > their time here in BC. They have told me their experiences at the border
    > have been similar to mine -- and they are a sweet, kind, elderly couple who
    > wouldn't hurt a fly. They are often taken into separate rooms by the INS
    > and questioned about their motives for living in Canada for an hour or more
    > on most of their entries to the US to visit their grandchildren!
I wonder if it's more prevalent at the western ports of entry. I've
driven across the border many times in New York, as well as into
Michigan, and Vermont, both as a US citizen/Canadian PR and
now as a dual US/Canadian citizen, and I've never been delayed
or questioned anything more than that standard set of questions
(citizenship, destination, purpose of trip).

Going into the US I identify myself as a US citizen and going into
Canada I identify myself as a Canadian citizen. Still, the US inspectors
do realize that I live in Canada because of my car's Ontario license
plates and they usually do ask me what is my status in Canada. When
I reply that I'm also a Canadian citizen, I've never received a negative
reaction.

Stephen Gallagher

P.S. I hope that I don't jinx myself. I'm driving across the border
on Thursday morning.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 2:11 pm
  #14  
\"Half-Canadian\
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Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

"sysclp" <member3998@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by \"Half-Canadian\
    > >
    > > In my own experience, when I entered the US from Canada as a US
    > > Citizen/Canadian PR, I was often detained for lengthy
    > > questioning by US
    > > Customs and INS. When I became a dual US and Canadian citizen, the
    > > questioning became even more intense -- about every third or
    > > fourth time I
    > > now enter the US I am detained for questioning that often lasts over
    > > an
    > > hour, despite the fact that I have *never* done or said anything
    > > that would
    > > give them cause.
    > I find this very interesting as I have never been sent in for
    > questioning or had my car searched in the 2 1/2 years I have been living
    > in Canada as a PR. I go back to the US at least once a month, sometimes
    > for business and sometimes just to grocery shop. It doesn't seem to
    > make any difference if I am alone or with my Canadian citizen husband.
    > Perhaps it is where I cross (mostly Queenston/Lewiston or 1000 Islands)
    > or maybe it is because I am a white female with a distinctly Southern
    > accent? Hard to say why different people get treated in such
    > drastically different manners.

I think the location has a lot to do with the ease of crossing -- I've had
the pleasure of crossing back and forth myself a few times along the east
coast without any problems. BC is well-known as a pipeline for drugs
between Mexico and the Pacific Rim, along with home-grown "BC Bud", and I'm
sure this leads to increased scrutiny at the border crossings between BC and
Washington state.
 
Old Sep 24th 2003, 3:59 pm
  #15  
Gus
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Default Re: Canadian Passport and Citizenship Certificate

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:11:17 -0700, "\"Half-Canadian\""
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >I think the location has a lot to do with the ease of crossing -- I've had
    >the pleasure of crossing back and forth myself a few times along the east
    >coast without any problems. BC is well-known as a pipeline for drugs
    >between Mexico and the Pacific Rim, along with home-grown "BC Bud", and I'm
    >sure this leads to increased scrutiny at the border crossings between BC and
    >Washington state.

Which BC border crossing have you been detained at? I'd like to avoid
them if I can.
 

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