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Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Old Aug 2nd 2010, 2:51 pm
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Default Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Hi guys,

sorry to ask so many random questions, I am considering retraining and working part time on my days off to gain 1+ yr PTE as NOC 7251 for FSW without a job offer, i'm sure i meet the points however I am unable to get employment without PR so need to look at alternative routes.

I have been looking a several college courses, and am trying to work out which one is the best option, weighing up work commitments etc.

I'm interested to know if a bathroom installer would apply for the NOC 7251 PLUMBER or 7441 Dom&Com Installers & Servicers.

As I understand it a bathroom installer is responsible for installing a bathroom suite, including bath, basin and WC. Hot and cold water supply requirements and water connections for waste discharge. This seems to fully cover the NOC main duties for a PLUMBER.

Also to apply as NOC 7251 it says employment requirements

•Completion of a four- to five-year apprenticeship program
or
A combination of over five years of work experience in the trade and some high school, college or industry courses in plumbing is usually required to be eligible for trade certification


does this mean 1 yrs experience is not enough to apply for FSW PR, i would need 5 years? or does it mean to work in canada without an apprenticeship i would need 5 yrs experience?

I'm getting so confused with all the different hoops i have to jump through, but still i'm trying to battle on!

I hope you can give me advice hear
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85
I am considering retraining and working part time on my days off to gain 1+ yr PTE
Firstly, it must be at least one year full-time work experience to qualify. And secondly, is it really worth retraining in something that may be removed from the Skilled Worker list before you've even qualified? If you have a genuine desire to do it, then fair enough, but you can't count on it still being a Skilled Worker occupation in two years time.

Why not look at other routes? Skilled Worker is only one way to a visa, and there are over 50! If you really wish to do further education, then how about a study permit?
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 3:03 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

NOC 7251 is a regulated occupation in Canada and you need a Red Seal to work as a plumber.

http://cicic.ca/684/Plumbers.canada?prof=7251

To be eligible to apply as skilled worker without arranged employment you must have at least 12 months of full time (or full time equivalent = 1,950 hours) paid and continuous work experience in one of the occupation on the Ministerial list.

By the time you finish any course and gain work experience the list will be changed few times or may not be a list anymore and only applications with arranged employment will be accepted. This is where CIC is heading quite fast now.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 3:12 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

OOPS i meant FTE!!!

Thankyou, I would like to learn a trade...i work 4 days on 4 days off so it really suits having a trade on the side and a little bit of extra income certainly won't go a miss.

the course i'm looking into is a part time bathroom installers course 2 days a week for 10 weeks.

As they have just reduced the list from 38 to 29 are they really likely to strip it further...i think for under £400 it's got to be worth a go if it gets me on the plumbers noc?

Then their would be the issue of actually finding the work.

I guess at the very worst, i would learn a trade and just work on mine and friends bathrooms as a hobby/favours?

I will look deeper into a study permit, but i was under the impression i would need tens of thousands as you can't work at the same time?
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 3:21 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85
As they have just reduced the list from 38 to 29 are they really likely to strip it further...i think for under £400 it's got to be worth a go if it gets me on the plumbers noc?
They may not reduce it further, but they will change the list again. Plumbers may well not be on it next year or the year after, so it's a big chance to take. Plus even if they do stay on 'the list', I don't know if bathroom installers would come under 7251, you'd need to check and see if you do at least half of the duties and you wouldn't have enough experience to get your Red Seal anyway.

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85
I will look deeper into a study permit, but i was under the impression i would need tens of thousands as you can't work at the same time?
You can work part-time on a study permit, and if you have a partner/spouse they can get an open work permit so can work full time. But a study permit is only one idea, there are loads of other ways! Have you been out to try and find work? If you can get employment then that's the way to give you the most options. How old are you, and whereabouts do you want to go to? Any family in Canada?
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

I honestly dont believe that 20 days training would get you in as a plumber. Not without the 5 years work experience anyway.

We have applied under 7251 Plumber, Hubbie being the main applicant. We have had to provide lots of info to prove he took a 4 year apprentership and then back that up with his years of work experience.

As CO has said if its something you really want to do, then go for it but I really can't see it will get you into Canada as a Plumber.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 3:52 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

I believe a bathroom fitter would do all of the duties of 7251

Would i need to prove i could acheive a red seal if i didn't plan to use the occupation i entered in to canada with?

i'm now 25 so still eligible foor a bunac, but i'm really trying to hold onto that as a last resort because it wouldn't cover me for CEC unless i managed to then secure a TWP and quiting my dream job in a recession is a risky game when i don't currently have any trades apart from ....cheffing...(NO EXPERIENCE though)

A study permit opens the door to CEC, which sounds good and i think then i could use my bunac after studying? AM i right in thinking this route might have more guarantees for getting PR?


I don't have any family in canada that could sponsor us,only really distant relatives that i don't even know.

We have lots of friends based in Vancouver, and Toronto but we just can't seem to join them.

We really like Toronto, but i would happily live anywhere in canada to get PR and let canadian life choose where we settle!
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 3:58 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85;8746941
As I understand it a bathroom installer is responsible for installing a bathroom suite, including bath, basin and WC. Hot and cold water supply requirements and water connections for waste discharge. This seems to fully cover the NOC main duties for a PLUMBER.

[COLOR=Red
Also to apply as NOC 7251 it says employment requirements

•Completion of a four- to five-year apprenticeship program [/color]
or
A combination of over five years of work experience in the trade and some high school, college or industry courses in plumbing is usually required to be eligible for trade certification

does this mean 1 yrs experience is not enough to apply for FSW PR, i would need 5 years? or does it mean to work in canada without an apprenticeship i would need 5 yrs experience?

A plumber does more than install a bathroom, they install hot and cold water 'systems', not just hooking them up, hot water tanks, soldering, pipe bending and joints, understand how a complete plumbing system works and how to problem solve.

Where do you get the 1 year from? Plumbing is a certified trade in Canada and you have to be qualified, such as an apprenticed plumber or have enough hours experience to challenge the exam. I would hazard a guess that CIC are looking for you to be a fully qualified (with the papers) plumber. From the text you put in red, that seems pretty clear.

Just looked at a course in from a UK company for bathroom installer - in three weeks they train you to be a tiler, plumber and plasterer. Each of these trades takes years to master. A 3 week course is not going to get you into Canada. You are looking at a 4-5 year apprenticeship to be ticketed plumber.

Last edited by Aviator; Aug 2nd 2010 at 4:07 pm.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 4:07 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Thanks Falcore that's really good to know.

I don't want to be barking up a tree and missing other opportunties to be laughed at by an immigration officer!

It's nice to hear from someone applying under that catagory, it's a shame though...i thought i'd cracked it, might still do the course though for fun if i can fit it around my shifts!

Going to start looking into the study visa, any advice would be great!

Thanks!
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 4:09 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85
We really like Toronto, but i would happily live anywhere in canada to get PR and let canadian life choose where we settle!
Nova Scotia Community Identified Stream then - although you would actually have to settle there and be committed to the province so probably not ideal if you really want to be somewhere else.

But why not use Bunac to then try and apply as a Skilled Worker? You don't need to wait until you can apply for CEC to get PR. Find a job, get permanent job offer and then apply under Category 2 of FSW (arranged employment). Try and do it by month 4 or so of your year with Bunac, so that you have PR before Bunac expires.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't see why you're trying to make it so complicated! There is no need to do an unnecessary course, or to spend a year doing a job you don't really want to do, especially as you have Bunac open to you.

And just looked at your previous posts to see what your current 'dream job' is out of interest - you are aware that you wouldn't be able to be a firefighter in Canada, at least not to start with? Just in case you wanted to continue doing said 'dream job'.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Aug 2nd 2010 at 4:12 pm.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 4:20 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

my biggest hurdle to join a fire service in Canada is I need to be a permanent resident, and then they need to be recruiting.

After meeting with many firefighters, i'm sure once i get the PR my qualifications and experience should put me in a good position.

there are other qualifications i might need depending on which dept. i apply for although some do not require the pre-course training and this training can also be completed as on a work at home and condensed USA state/province training, and a driving test also.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85
After meeting with many firefighters, i'm sure once i get the PR my qualifications and experience should put me in a good position.
I'd double check that with a quick search on the forum - from what I've read previously, even Canadian citizens can't get in to the fire service without a wait of many years.

This is the most recent thread about it that I can find............http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ht=firefighter

Just something to consider anyway, only you can decide if moving to Canada is worth potentially giving up your 'dream job', at least for a few years.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by hockeymonkey85
Thanks Falcore that's really good to know.

I don't want to be barking up a tree and missing other opportunties to be laughed at by an immigration officer!

It's nice to hear from someone applying under that catagory, it's a shame though...i thought i'd cracked it, might still do the course though for fun if i can fit it around my shifts!

Going to start looking into the study visa, any advice would be great!

Thanks!
Hi Hockeymonkey

I am a plumber/ Gas heating Engineer just come through the process. you will find you need the apprenticeship years to go on your education to bump that up, and your full city & G's / NVQ's to prove your ability and trade. I dont think any of the short courses will prove anything towards a trade.
but best of luck trying. and beware of people offering trade courses that cost a packet and end up worthless.
all the best
Ian
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
I'd double check that with a quick search on the forum - from what I've read previously, even Canadian citizens can't get in to the fire service without a wait of many years.

This is the most recent thread about it that I can find............http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ht=firefighter

Just something to consider anyway, only you can decide if moving to Canada is worth potentially giving up your 'dream job', at least for a few years.
My nephew has been waiting for three years to get hired as a fire fighter ! He was born and bred in Dartmouth. He has been a volunteer FF since he was 18 and has completed the FF course at Holland College in PEI. The hiring practices of the various Fire Departments appear to be pretty much a "closed shop" thing. Applicants are also required to payout a couple of grand in various tests and assessments. Seems like a racket to me.
Good luck with your journey.
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Old Aug 2nd 2010, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: Bathroom Installation NOC 7441 or 7251

Originally Posted by canman
Hi Hockeymonkey

I am a plumber/ Gas heating Engineer just come through the process. you will find you need the apprenticeship years to go on your education to bump that up, and your full city & G's / NVQ's to prove your ability and trade. I dont think any of the short courses will prove anything towards a trade.
but best of luck trying. and beware of people offering trade courses that cost a packet and end up worthless.
all the best
Ian

Well said canman,
My hubby is a plumber/gas heating engineer too and I get dubious when you see these courses offering to become a plumber in a few weeks - that's not the reality at all! He did 4 years of night classes and day release, plus on the job apprentice training to qualify. Also as Christmasoompa said earlier, plumbers although still on the list could be taken off at any time. Plus you need to factor in that they are capping each FSW category at 1000 now so even if you did a course you're going to be up against people who have years more experience and you know they will approve those with the full qualifications and most experience first.
The Bunac route sounds like a good way for you - I wish we were young enough to qualify but alas we're too old otherwise we'd be there!

Good luck with it all and don't give up on your dream or let anyone put you off!

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