Wolfie and Will

Well friends, after nearly a four year wait, we have had a horrible email this morning from Canada House saying that we are not eligible for permanent residency with a self-employment visa. It's come as a bit of a massive shock however, I would appreciate your advice.

Firstly, I should stress that a decision has NOT been made so we still have a shot. They have given us 60 days to send additional documentation in support of our application. Just to be clear, my husband (the primary applicant) is a Stage Manager in Theatre. He has been self-employed since 2007 and only recently stopped being self-employed in 2012. He now works as a full time stage manager for a company and thus for the first time ever is on payroll.

He has most certainly worked for at least 2 years as a full time self-employed person and yet they have rejected us on the grounds of not "not meeting the definition of a self-employed person."

The exact wording is this "Based on the evidence provided, I am not satisfied that you have provided sufficient information to show that you have previously performed or undertaken your profession at a world class level, that you have been able to earn sufficient income to support yourself through your self-employment, or how you intend and will be able to become self-sufficient in Canada. No specific or detailed plan indicating how you intend to become self-employed and make a significant contribution to cultural activities in Canada has been provided." - Obviously we sent them a hell of a lot of evidence to prove otherwise back in 2010!

Obviously, we would not have waited for four years if we didn't think our case met the criteria and our tax returns prove that we have "two one-year periods of experience in self-employment in cultural activities" required.

We have 60 days to contest this "to provide any additional information/documentation you may wish to submit, including but not limited to evidence of your self-employment income since 2010 and information/documentation to demonstrate how you intend to become self-employed in Canada."

So I am at a loss about what to do. We could send them more tax returns, financial records etc etc. We could get at least a dozen letters of recommendation from the Canadian theatre community in support of our application and build a solid business plan or we could jump ship now and withdraw our application now. This is complicated by the fact that we have a new baby to add to the application.

Obviously we are gambling with the money we initially put down for the application and feel that we are being unfairly dismissed. Anyone who has ever contested a decision before, I would really appreciate your help!

Many thanks!

nikki dreaming

Sorry, I have no idea re this route, however the words "world Class" and "significant contribution" jump out to me. What evidence did you provide for these area's and what is your understanding of CIC interpretation of the above?

CIC also refers to proof that you will become successful in Canada, what information/evidence did you provide to support this?

Hopefully someone can provide you with further ideas, good luck

Zoe Bell

I commiserate.
Now would probably be an excellent time to find an immigration laywer who has expreience in these kind of cases.

I agree with NIkki that those are probably the areas they are looking for. This is a realtively unusual route in my opinion.
you could definitely use professional advice on just what it is they are looking for

scribe123

When it talks about proof of self employment, and you sent a lot of documentation, I'm assuming you sent things like contracts for work carried out, references from the people who hired your husband etc...

It isn't in any sort of world class cultural stream, but for my application that is what I supplied along with things like a letter from my accountant stating they have represented me for X in my business, as well as even things like my VAT registration.

If you've done all of that then apologies for going over old ground.

Wolfie and Will

Thanks for the replies. We are definitely thinking we need a lawyer although I have no clue how to go about getting one in 60 day or whether we can afford it.

In order to qualify for self-employment you need one of the following:

A) two one-year periods of experience in self-employment in cultural activities,
(B) two one-year periods of experience in participation at a world class level in cultural activities, or
(C) a combination of a one-year period of experience described in clause (A) and a one-year period of experience described in clause (B),

The one I highlighted in blue is the one most applicable for us. Our understanding of world class for a stage manager would be working for world class companies (which he has done a reasonable amount of, touring internationally on a fairly regular basis) To support this section of the app we sent:

1. a letter from the HMRC proving he had been self-employed since 2007
2. All the tax returns we had
3. Every contract from every job he had done
4. A portfolio of evidence (programmes etc etc)
5. A letter from the professional stage management association he belonged to

I thought that would enough to prove it!

We think they can't understand what he would contribute culturally and don't really understand what he does for a living. If he were an actor or athlete it would be much more simple. In support of this section of the app, we laid out his specialisms in stage management (which would be unusual and new for the arts scene out there) and included letters from very high ranking practitioners in support of what he could do for the theatre community and attesting to the cultural contribution he would make.

Its just so down to interpretation its hard to know what to do! We went to Toronto on the IEC last year, worked as self-employed artists and made some great connections so we could use that experience in support of our app if we decide it is worth our while.

nikki dreaming

What NOC code did you refer to is it this one? I note you refer to him as a stage manager, CIC refers to Stage Director, I dont know if they deem this as different, did you provide sufficient evidence to support the roles and duties in the NOC code referenced?

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/...al=5&val1=5131

Siouxie

I would suggest having a good read of the Operating Manual OP 08 paying particular attention to sections 7 and also 11 onwards. I think it will help you ascertain exactly what they are looking for in so far as evidence etc., is concerned.

Wolfie and Will

It comes under 5226

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/...al=5&val1=5226

I think we are going to have to review very carefully what we sent them and what we possibly could send in. It feels like a bit of a lost cause to be honest but we have got this far!

james.mc

That's what I initially felt when being refused under FSW1, totally deflated and looking like a lost cause.

However, it was a mistake on the part of CIC London, as they clearly did not read all the supporting documentation in our file. We knew it had been supplied and had copies, by way of our own record, of what had been sent and when. We were not going to go down without a fight!

They could have just missed a chunk of your paperwork!

When we were advised of refusal I immediately responded by email, then printed the email and sent it with a covering letter (recorded). I highlighted why I thought I qualified and suggested that they were in error with the handling of the application.
Enclosed in my response were copies of the documents that I thought they had missed (even though they must have been in the file) and highlighted the relevant sections.

We then started to gear up on the BC Business PNP program (our plan B).

Nothing was heard for about 2 months and then I received an email saying the case had been reviewed by another officer and was deemed eligible for further processing. Later a request for updated documents and PPR followed. The rest is now, thankfully, history.

I'd hit them with all you have now, which you believe already answers their questions, and indicate that you will follow up within 60 days with further proof, then do so.

januarymix

Sorry to hear that, Wolfie and Will. I had always thought that the Government would not make that route easy per se. Best of luck.

Waggle

It is important to note that one must be able to prove that they have made an error with the supporting documentation already in their possession. No new documentation or evidence will be considered after a decision has been made.

I am glad James got his decision overturned and I am hopeful that Wolfie and Will can do the same.

Generally the faster you react, and the more clear and explicit you are in your demonstration of why they have made an error, the better your chance that the case will be reopened.

I hear fax is probably the best way to get their attention (faster than a letter and harder to delete or ignore than an email)!

Wayne.

james.mc

Good points Wayne

.... and the fax number for CIC London is? Anyone?

Former Lancastrian

Macdonald House
1 Grosvenor Square
London, W1K 4AB
Telephone: 0207 258 6600
Fax: 0207 258 6333

jobop

Same as jame.mc, we were rejected from FSW visa, they told us our skills did not match the code we applied under. The day we got that letter was a terrible blow as I knew I had meticulously gone over everything with a fine tooth comb.

I did not get a lawyer but wrote a 10 page appeal doc pointing out all the evidence supplied and how we did meet all there requirements, even quoted the rules from there own paperwork. It was like a full on essay.

After about three months and wondering what was happening we got the email saying that a mistake had been made and they were re-opening our file, that was the best day ever. We are have now finished the process and are moving over in Sept.

Don't give up hope it's not over yet.

james.mc

Thanks