April 17 is coming-preparation?

Old Apr 15th 2009, 1:49 pm
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Default April 17 is coming-preparation?

Hello Canadian neighbors

I've had a big mark on April 17 2009 and the implementation of the new citizenship law. I have not been studying like I should. Or have I?

Does anyone have any info on which documents my sister and I will need to apply for, or do we wait for this;
Check back for more information on April 17, 2009, including a questionnaire to help you determine whether you are likely to acquire Canadian citizenship under the new law.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen...itizenship.asp

My sister and I were born outside Canada to a Canadian citizen mother, in 1964 & 1966.
Mother was born in Canada in 1938.
Mother naturalized to US citizenship on 12/19/1978.
Sister and I have no Canadian documents.

It's not clear to us whether we need a certificate of citizenship, or go straight to the passport application.
Looking for any prep or comments you have to add to this, thanks!

edit, should have clarified, I understand that we did not have Canadian citizenship before (for not being registered w/in 2 years of birth) but our citizenship will be retroactive to birth.

New citizenship rules
Who will acquire citizenship or have it restored under the new law?

The new law will automatically restore or give citizenship to many who lost it or never had it due to previous laws. For instance, certain people who became Canadian citizens on or after January 1, 1947, when the first Citizenship Act took effect, and who then lost it, will have their status restored retroactively to the date they lost it.

Others, who have never been Canadians, but who are part of the first generation born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, will become Canadians. Their citizenship will be retroactive to their date of birth.

Last edited by meauxna; Apr 15th 2009 at 1:51 pm.
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Old Apr 15th 2009, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Congratulations - on April 17th, as you say, you will officially be Canadian citizens.

You need to apply for and receive a Certificate of Canadian Citizemship before you can apply for a Canadian passport.

Do either you or your sister have children born outside Canada (I assume not since you do not mention any)? The reason is from Friday onwards if you have children born outside Canada they will not be deemed to be Canadian citizens at birth, since they will be in "the second generation born outside Canada". However, since your citizenship will be retroactive to birth, and under the old Act your children would automatically have been Canadian citizens if born after 1977 and before Friday, it is arguable that such children are in fact Canadian citizens. Presumably, we will find out the government's position on that one before too long.
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Old Apr 15th 2009, 11:53 pm
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman
Do either you or your sister have children born outside Canada (I assume not since you do not mention any)? The reason is from Friday onwards if you have children born outside Canada they will not be deemed to be Canadian citizens at birth, since they will be in "the second generation born outside Canada". However, since your citizenship will be retroactive to birth, and under the old Act your children would automatically have been Canadian citizens if born after 1977 and before Friday, it is arguable that such children are in fact Canadian citizens. Presumably, we will find out the government's position on that one before too long.
Hi Fellow Canucks - from tomorrow I can say that without it being a lie >;o)

Ron, I'm interested in this comment.

My boys are two and a half and one.

Now I'm inheriting my mothers nationality, (like meauxna, I was born outside Canada to a Canadian mother, born in Canada) I'm interested in how this will affect my children.

I've been in talks with my company anbout a transfer to our Canadian Office and they seem to be up for the idea and we're looking at moving in around 12 to 24 months. This might be tight as I first have to prove my citizenship and then apply for PR for my wife and kids. Obviously, if the kids become Canadian tomorrow too, I have a good deal of the battle won.

Have CIC said anything on this yet?

In answer to the meauxna's question, I think you need a Citizenship Certificate to apply for a passport if you were born outside Canada. That's my understanding but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Regards,
Gazza
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 2:23 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

I think this answers the question . . .
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/departm...007-12-10b.asp
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 2:39 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Hello Gazza,

It would no doubt be pleasant to know that the children are already citizens. Seeing that you have to sponsor your OH anyway, even if you have to sponsor your kids also, in practical terms it will probably only make a difference in the immigration fees you pay.

I have an exactly analogous situation with a client in South Africa whose citizenship application is sitting in Sydney, Nova Scotia waiting to be approved under the new Act. She has 2 young children born outside Canada, and their grandmother was born in Canada. The new Citizenship Act creates some very complicated situations, and I do not know how carefully CIC have considered the implications of making someone a citizen retroactively.

There are two possible and contradictory ways to argue this: 1) Her chilldren are not Canadian citizens, because under the new Act they are in the 2nd generation born outside Canada and they never became citizens under the Old Act or 2) The children are Canadian citizens because they are deemed to be citizens under the old Act, and the new Act cannot operate to deprive them retroactively of their citizenship.

It appears CIC are likely to adopt approach 1) above but ss soon as we have a definitive answer to this question I will definitely make sure to let you and other interested persons on this discussion forum know.
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 3:02 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman
Hello Gazza,

It would no doubt be pleasant to know that the children are already citizens. Seeing that you have to sponsor your OH anyway, even if you have to sponsor your kids also, in practical terms it will probably only make a difference in the immigration fees you pay.

I have an exactly analogous situation with a client in South Africa whose citizenship application is sitting in Sydney, Nova Scotia waiting to be approved under the new Act. She has 2 young children born outside Canada, and their grandmother was born in Canada. The new Citizenship Act creates some very complicated situations, and I do not know how carefully CIC have considered the implications of making someone a citizen retroactively.

There are two possible and contradictory ways to argue this: 1) Her chilldren are not Canadian citizens, because under the new Act they are in the 2nd generation born outside Canada and they never became citizens under the Old Act or 2) The children are Canadian citizens because they are deemed to be citizens under the old Act, and the new Act cannot operate to deprive them retroactively of their citizenship.

It appears CIC are likely to adopt approach 1) above but ss soon as we have a definitive answer to this question I will definitely make sure to let you and other interested persons on this discussion forum know.
Cheers Ron.

Your post raises another question. After speaking to the Consulate in London 6 months ago or so, I was told that I had to wait until the 17th of April before I could apply for proof of Citizenship. It appears that I could have got ahead of the game form teh reference you make to your client.

Oh well. It doesn't make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Gazza
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 3:06 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by meauxna
My sister and I were born outside Canada to a Canadian citizen mother, in 1964 & 1966.
Mother was born in Canada in 1938.
Mother naturalized to US citizenship on 12/19/1978.
Sister and I have no Canadian documents.
I've seen you make references to Canadian relatives, but I didn't know you were one of those who would be affected by the new law. Great news! Good luck to you and your sister getting Great-White-North-ified
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 4:43 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman
Congratulations - on April 17th, as you say, you will officially be Canadian citizens.

You need to apply for and receive a Certificate of Canadian Citizemship before you can apply for a Canadian passport.

Do either you or your sister have children born outside Canada (I assume not since you do not mention any)?
Thanks so much for the professional confirmation of an amateur's research!
We thought all hope was lost since we only found out about the last 'deadline' for doing something about a year after it was too late. Now that I have a dualie spouse (UK/US) I was starting to feel left out.

Sister and I do not have children or plans for any, so that is fine for us.

Can I confirm that I need to start here Proof of citizenship: How to apply
and follow the instructions for Application for a citizenship certificate from outside Canada ?

Forgive if that is putting my foot in it; I know in the US immigration forum, the pros can't always give an individually specific answer.
Anyone is welcome to chime in.

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman
I do not know how carefully CIC have considered the implications of making someone a citizen retroactively..
I wondered myself, since it opens the door to thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands. And the 2nd gen children question is very interesting! Normally I would think, well, too bad for them, but as you say, with citz going back to birth, and crossing with the old law... well, should keep you busy for a while!

I just feel lucky that the law is swinging in our favor AND we are prepared for it this time!

Originally Posted by Bill_S
I've seen you make references to Canadian relatives, but I didn't know you were one of those who would be affected by the new law. Great news! Good luck to you and your sister getting Great-White-North-ified
I KNOW! Cool, eh? I think I told you that a new batch of cousins are down here on TNs now (the one who *never* wanted to live in the US) and they like it and want to stay, lol.
We love Oregon & have just put an extension on the house so we can stay here 'forever', but Vancouver tempts one and who knows what the future holds? Certainly more options.
Although, I am keeping an eye on the Bonaire situation too, and what good a UK passport might do us in going there for a while.
Ahh, it's a good day (the day after April 15!)

Thank you so much everyone!
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 8:01 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Yes - the Canadian system seems to be less complex than the U.S. one (fortunately).

You have found the correct instructions and application forms to use - there is no apparent reason why you need to wait until CIC decide to issue a new set.
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 9:00 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by Ron Liberman
Yes - the Canadian system seems to be less complex than the U.S. one (fortunately).

You have found the correct instructions and application forms to use - there is no apparent reason why you need to wait until CIC decide to issue a new set.
woo hoo! It was fun to tell my mom today; I think she got a little teary!

PS: also having trouble convincing her that she never lost her Can citz, but she knows where her SIN card is <g>.

No issue with not immediately getting a passport for any of the three of us, is there? Mother hasn't had a valid Canadian one for a number of years & Sister & I need the Citizenship Certificate first anyway. I'm just thinking as they are valid for 5 years (?) and offer no immediate travel benefit...
Also for note of any other US/Can dualies following this thread, bear in mind that the US will always treat you only as a US citizen, so you must enter and leave the US with your US passport. As I understand it, Canada does not have the same rule and there is no problem for a Canadian citizen to enter Canada on another passport.

Last edited by meauxna; Apr 16th 2009 at 9:04 am.
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 9:18 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by meauxna
Also for note of any other US/Can dualies following this thread, bear in mind that the US will always treat you only as a US citizen, so you must enter and leave the US with your US passport. As I understand it, Canada does not have the same rule and there is no problem for a Canadian citizen to enter Canada on another passport.
For Canadians and/or Americans who cross the border regularly I highly recommend getting a NEXUS pass. Bit of rigamarole to get it, but it greatly speeds up your transit across the border.
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Old Apr 16th 2009, 9:28 am
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Default Re: April 17 is coming-preparation?

Originally Posted by Bill_S
For Canadians and/or Americans who cross the border regularly I highly recommend getting a NEXUS pass. Bit of rigamarole to get it, but it greatly speeds up your transit across the border.
Good one
And Washington State US citizen-residents can get a border crossing driver's license now.

And USCs can get a wallet sized passport card now, too. My folks have just moved to the Southern border & cross by road, but good god, getting back in can be a multi-hour wait.
I am getting travel fever, I can tell you that much.. All this talk's got me excited!
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