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Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Old Jul 28th 2013, 11:14 am
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Default Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Hi all

I am currently in the process of applying for citizenship as I am 3 and a half years in to my PR (full time in Canada) therefore easily meeting the minimum time required to apply. I have left Canada for a few vacations in this time, a couple of weeks back to Engand and 3 or 4 trips down to the states for a week at a time max. I never really kept track of the dates...I roughly know the dates for a few trips...but for the most part it would be a complete guess.
Just wondered if anyone has any experience with this part of the application. How specific are they looking for you to be? They obviously can see when I left the country and when I returned, so will putting down incorrect dates hinder my application?
Also, can I put down the start date of my work permit before PR as the date I first moved to Canada?

Any first hand experience or insight would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old Jul 28th 2013, 11:31 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by canglish
Hi all

I am currently in the process of applying for citizenship as I am 3 and a half years in to my PR (full time in Canada) therefore easily meeting the minimum time required to apply. I have left Canada for a few vacations in this time, a couple of weeks back to Engand and 3 or 4 trips down to the states for a week at a time max. I never really kept track of the dates...I roughly know the dates for a few trips...but for the most part it would be a complete guess.
Just wondered if anyone has any experience with this part of the application. How specific are they looking for you to be? They obviously can see when I left the country and when I returned, so will putting down incorrect dates hinder my application?
Also, can I put down the start date of my work permit before PR as the date I first moved to Canada?

Any first hand experience or insight would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Days spent in Canada pre-PR are counted as half a day, up to a maximum of 730 half days (365 full days) - in other words, the maximum you can claim pre-PR is 1 year.

You are required to be specific about the dates, any night spent away from Canada does not count towards the required days (1095) for Citizenship.

There is a calculator online here: https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/...ew.do?&lang=en but if you want to just jot the dates down to try and keep track you can use this paper pdf: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kit...n/CIT0407E.pdf

Do you have any stamps in your passport that would help you ascertain when you were away? Airline tickets? Email confirmations of flights or hotels etc?

Q10: I travel often to the United States and don't remember the exact dates. What do I do?

A10: To use the residence calculator, you must enter exact dates. If you do not know the exact number of days you were absent, try to calculate an estimated number and after you have printed your absence sheet, attach a hand written note to it indicating that the dates are approximate.

When calculating an absence, either the day you leave Canada or the day you return is considered an absence, but not both. For example, an absence between July 1, 2003 and July 15, 2003 equals 14 days of absence.
If you leave Canada and come back the same day, you do not have to declare an absence.
An absence on February 29 (leap day) is not counted as an absence, nor is it credited as a presence. See Question 5 for more information on leap days.
Total residence days ending in .5 are rounded up in your favour.
The total number of days absent includes all absences from Canada within the four-year period immediately preceding the date of your application. Because the time spent in Canada before you became a permanent resident is only credited as half-time, absences from Canada before you obtained permanent resident status are divided by two before they are included in the total number of days absent.


Last edited by Siouxie; Jul 28th 2013 at 11:33 am.
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Old Jul 28th 2013, 12:38 pm
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by canglish
Hi all

I am currently in the process of applying for citizenship as I am 3 and a half years in to my PR (full time in Canada) therefore easily meeting the minimum time required to apply. I have left Canada for a few vacations in this time, a couple of weeks back to Engand and 3 or 4 trips down to the states for a week at a time max. I never really kept track of the dates...I roughly know the dates for a few trips...but for the most part it would be a complete guess.
Just wondered if anyone has any experience with this part of the application. How specific are they looking for you to be? They obviously can see when I left the country and when I returned, so will putting down incorrect dates hinder my application?
Just complete as best you can. I had the same question when I was applying for citizenship and they just told me to complete it to the best of my ability. I know some of my dates were guesses and probably off by a day or two but I didn't have any problems. Total number of days absent is more important than exact dates.

Originally Posted by canglish
Also, can I put down the start date of my work permit before PR as the date I first moved to Canada?
Yes.
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Old Jul 28th 2013, 12:43 pm
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Thanks to both of you for your replies! I backtracked through passport stamps and I think I am pretty close with dates and total days absent!
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Old Jul 29th 2013, 12:46 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Did you arrive as PR or as TWF?

I believe that days in country count from TWP period through to and including PR period.
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Old Jul 29th 2013, 3:41 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by Mikeypm
I believe that days in country count from TWP period through to and including PR period.
Right - although they only consider the previous 4 years. So if someone has been a PR for 4 years or more, TWP time doesn't count at all as it would be outside that 4 year window.
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Old Jul 29th 2013, 6:20 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
Right - although they only consider the previous 4 years. So if someone has been a PR for 4 years or more, TWP time doesn't count at all as it would be outside that 4 year window.
But could you have 2 years TWP and one year PR to count to your three years for citizenship?
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Old Jul 29th 2013, 6:25 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by Mikeypm
But could you have 2 years TWP and one year PR to count to your three years for citizenship?
No.

"...Please note that you cannot meet the residence requirements for citizenship without a minimum of two (2) years as a permanent resident..."

https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/...ew.do?&lang=en

2 years TWP would only count as 1 year towards PR anyway - days 'before' PR only count for .5 of a day.

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Old Jul 29th 2013, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by siouxie
No.

"...Please note that you cannot meet the residence requirements for citizenship without a minimum of two (2) years as a permanent resident..."

https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/...ew.do?&lang=en

2 years TWP would only count as 1 year towards PR anyway - days 'before' PR only count for .5 of a day.

So one year TWP would be worth half a year then, thanks for the info Siouxie
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 8:21 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

So does that mean if your job in Canada involves a lot of travel outside Canada then you have to deduct that from time spent towards citizenship? Some people who have no choice but to travel could have to spend a long time on their PR before they could apply for citizenship in that case?
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 9:03 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Hi


Originally Posted by Boris-canadabound
So does that mean if your job in Canada involves a lot of travel outside Canada then you have to deduct that from time spent towards citizenship? Some people who have no choice but to travel could have to spend a long time on their PR before they could apply for citizenship in that case?
Yes, only days in Canada count, unless employed by Military or Gov't and posted overseas.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 10:21 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by PMM
Hi
Yes, only days in Canada count, unless employed by Military or Gov't and posted overseas.
My days working outside Canada were accepted, otherwise I would never have got citizenship. It was not a straightforward process though.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 11:42 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by siouxie
"...Please note that you cannot meet the residence requirements for citizenship without a minimum of two (2) years as a permanent resident..."

https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/...ew.do?&lang=en
...

I never noticed that rule before - is it new or did I just completely miss that? I was assuming I'd be able to apply for citizenship in November 2013, now that's pushed back to the end of April 2014.

EDIT: Looked up and it turns out it's not a new rule, well that was a rather dumb oversight - oh well :P

Last edited by CanadaJimmy; Jul 30th 2013 at 11:47 am.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 4:49 pm
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Hi


Originally Posted by Aviator
My days working outside Canada were accepted, otherwise I would never have got citizenship. It was not a straightforward process though.
Probably the Citizenship Judge used the Koo decision in your case, in that you had "centralized your life in Canada" Most Judges these days seem to lean towards using strict days of actual residence.
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Old Jul 31st 2013, 3:41 am
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Default Re: Applying for citizenship. How critical are dates out of country.

Originally Posted by PMM
Hi




Probably the Citizenship Judge used the Koo decision in your case, in that you had "centralized your life in Canada" Most Judges these days seem to lean towards using strict days of actual residence.
Quite so. The whole thing was a complete pain.

Last edited by Aviator; Jul 31st 2013 at 3:45 am.
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