Applying to 2 countries at once

Old Jun 29th 2005, 7:44 am
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Default Applying to 2 countries at once

Hi

We've visited NZ and Canada in the last 18 months and have loved both of them and seen a way of life in each of them that is better than what we have here in the UK. We've researched the immigration routes for both countries and are confident that we stand good chances of getting in both via the skilled worker routes and that the work opportunities exist in both countries.

We simply can't decide on where to go so thought we might apply to both at the same time and see how things unfold while the applications are in process. Just wanted to know what the pitfalls where regarding applying to 2 countries at once - except the obvious one of having to choose to live in one or the other at some point:-

1. Could we hold visas for both countries at the same time - so potentially live and work in either?

2. Does either of the countries immigration depts need to know that we we're applying simultaneously to the other - and if so would this reflect badly on our applications?

3. If we dropped out of one of the applications would we be able to re-apply at a later date should we change our minds again?

I'd welcome any comments (like "are you mad?") that anyone might have and if anyone knows the answers to the questions above that'd be great.

Thanks
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Old Jun 29th 2005, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by nowanalivhenomo
I'd welcome any comments (like "are you mad?") that anyone might have and if anyone knows the answers to the questions above that'd be great.
Urk, as someone who has just finished the (21-month in our case) end-to-end PR process, I wouldn't want to sit with the hassle stress and frustration of two PR applications running at the same time.

Others would say it's a factor of deciding which country ticks the right boxes and choosing the right one. After all, you might be taking up a place in the PR queue which is going to hold somene else back. But that's easy to say and if you're just wanting emigration for the experience and change of life, then you can take that approach - but the immigration proceses for both are pretty much similar, I'd hazard a guess, so you have equal chances all round.

We actually sat and listed all the relevant factors and ranked them out of 5 per factor and Canada came out tops even when we weighted some of the factors on a 'second run' just to be sure.

So, for my cents worth, double trouble - no way, I'd think, research, reflect, and choose. It will give you a clearer focus after applying.

Good luck,

Rich.

"I am not an expert and Canada is not Shangri-La".
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Old Jun 30th 2005, 12:19 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by Rich_007
Urk, as someone who has just finished the (21-month in our case) end-to-end PR process, I wouldn't want to sit with the hassle stress and frustration of two PR applications running at the same time.
Cheers for the info - what have been the major hassles, stresses and frustrations of your application - just so i know what to expect?

I'd also be interested to hear the factors that made Canada your choice.
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Old Jun 30th 2005, 2:02 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by nowanalivhenomo
Cheers for the info - what have been the major hassles, stresses and frustrations of your application - just so i know what to expect?

I'd also be interested to hear the factors that made Canada your choice.
Hi,

I'd say mainly the worries about whether we'd sent the right documents, done the right things, got enough info, then the would we/wouldn't we be accepted thing, then the fear of rejection 'in totalia', then the worry about delays through interview (Nicky had jobs lined up pending PR by end of '05).
Oh and the genuine emotional up-and-down peak-and-trough frustrations of just how long it takes, then waiting to sell the house, etc.

Thing with us, is that we are very focused and when we decide on something absolutely 100% is given to the end result, which with PR can be a bit of a pain. I'd say all those things above pan out equally but hit us at different times through the process. I don't refer to it as the long big PR sleep for nothing !

If I recall right, we listed social, economic, lifestyle, location (i.e. international accesibility for relatives, not for us) weather, job prospects, factors and just worked through it all.

Cheers,

Rich.

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Old Jun 30th 2005, 8:11 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by nowanalivhenomo
We've visited NZ and Canada in the last 18 months and have loved both of them and seen a way of life in each of them that is better than what we have here in the UK. We've researched the immigration routes for both countries and are confident that we stand good chances of getting in both via the skilled worker routes and that the work opportunities exist in both countries.
Have you considered:
- what the skill recognition process is like for your trade/profession in Canada (with specific reference to the province) as opposed to New Zealand?

- processing times for migration (NZ may be quicker than Canada for most British applicants currently). If you are marginal on qualifying for Canada there is a risk the pass mark will go up while your application is in process.

- citizenship residence period. It's 3 years in Canada, but it's just gone up to 5 years in New Zealand.

- did you think about Australia as an option?

We simply can't decide on where to go so thought we might apply to both at the same time and see how things unfold while the applications are in process. Just wanted to know what the pitfalls where regarding applying to 2 countries at once - except the obvious one of having to choose to live in one or the other at some point:-

1. Could we hold visas for both countries at the same time - so potentially live and work in either?
Potentially yes, but holding both long term will be difficult. Unless you went to NZ and got an indefinite returning resident visa before moving on to Canada (if they don't abolish that soon, they may do).

You can look at the CIC and NZIS websites to see what their arrangements are for PR visa holders who want to spend time overseas.

2. Does either of the countries immigration depts need to know that we we're applying simultaneously to the other - and if so would this reflect badly on our applications?
If they ask the question you must answer truthfully. And it may reflect badly as both countries want immigrants who are keen to settle and not looking for an insurance policy.

3. If we dropped out of one of the applications would we be able to re-apply at a later date should we change our minds again?
You can always apply again but:

- Rules can and do change; and
- You could have to explain your intentions more carefully.

Moving between countries is not something you want to do too frequently. I'd suggest you look at the following approach:

- assuming you qualify for both, decide on *one* country and apply to it.

- Move to that country (if you get visas), settle there and become a citizen. If you still want to try the 'other' country after that point, and you still qualify, then look at the option of doing so. If, for example, you migrated to Canada and became Canadian citizens, then the New Zealanders probably wouldn't worry about your intentions if you then applied to them, which would be a number of years after your first migration.

Jeremy
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Old Jul 1st 2005, 9:40 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by nowanalivhenomo
Hi

We've visited NZ and Canada in the last 18 months and have loved both of them and seen a way of life in each of them that is better than what we have here in the UK. We've researched the immigration routes for both countries and are confident that we stand good chances of getting in both via the skilled worker routes and that the work opportunities exist in both countries.

Thanks

Hi,
Sorry I can't really help you much with this the only thing I can say is that New Zealand would be a much quicker process and the initial application is cheaper.

I am really interested in your situation though as we were going to go to New Zealand but after visiting decided it was not for us and now we are looking at Canada but we have never been there. It's over £600 (I think) for us to apply for Canada and could take anything up to three years. We really don't know what to do. If I wait until we visit to see if it's for us my 11 year old son will be getting well settled into secondary school.

Some of the reasons I did not feel that NZ was us was:

The distance - so remote nearest place 6hrs away, no popping home
The low wages with high cost of living (When earning NZ$)
The education
Houses much more packed in than I expected
House cost (really shot up)
Exchange rate
Christmas in the Sun (funny I know, but wasn't until I tried it I realised I didn't like it)
Driving at 15 - I don't want my baby's driving around all them mountain edges at 15.

Some reason are just personal ones, but others are more financial we wanted to have a better quality of life, and a better future for the kids we feel all we do here is work work work and get no where, we thought we could get a nice big house with a pool but I think on the sort of wages my husband could have got we would have struggled.

Canada appeals to me more because it's so much closer and not so remote, the Kids future looks better, and a safer life for them to grow up in with lots to do. We could afford a nice big house with a pool with money left over to invest. The quality of life seams to be better with cost of living etc. The downsides are could my hubby get a job with no Canadian experience and could I cope with the winters?

I am really interested in what you think of both places as you have been to both and we have only been to NZ.

You could send me a PM if you lf you dont want to put it on this thread. I dont want to detract other people from answering your question.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
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Old Jul 4th 2005, 2:07 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by JAJ
Have you considered:
- what the skill recognition process is like for your trade/profession in Canada (with specific reference to the province) as opposed to New Zealand?

- processing times for migration (NZ may be quicker than Canada for most British applicants currently). If you are marginal on qualifying for Canada there is a risk the pass mark will go up while your application is in process.

- citizenship residence period. It's 3 years in Canada, but it's just gone up to 5 years in New Zealand.

- did you think about Australia as an option?
I'll look into the skill recognition more closely - cheers for the info.

Now, Australia - funnily enough was our original choice as we spent 6 months in Oz and absolutely fell in love with the place. We just don't reckon we will get in - our only route in is via the Skilled Worker route and we don't score the 120 needed to get started ( i get 110 and my girlfriend gets 105). Without going in to too much detail we both are in the web/design field and our skills are not that in demand in Australia - for this reason i don't think sponsorship would be possible because of the hoops companies have to jump thru to sponsor an immigrant. We went to an emigration fair recently and came away with the feeling that Australia just don't want immigrants in the technology field - the agents we spoke to were not that interested in looking at our cases. If you could offer us some hope of getting in to Australia then please let us know - you'd be the first!

Thanks for your other tips - i think we've pretty much decided that we will go ahead with only one visa application - still don't know which yet tho?
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Old Jul 4th 2005, 5:16 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by Rich_007
Urk, as someone who has just finished the (21-month in our case) end-to-end PR process, I wouldn't want to sit with the hassle stress and frustration of two PR applications running at the same time.

Others would say it's a factor of deciding which country ticks the right boxes and choosing the right one. After all, you might be taking up a place in the PR queue which is going to hold somene else back. But that's easy to say and if you're just wanting emigration for the experience and change of life, then you can take that approach - but the immigration proceses for both are pretty much similar, I'd hazard a guess, so you have equal chances all round.

We actually sat and listed all the relevant factors and ranked them out of 5 per factor and Canada came out tops even when we weighted some of the factors on a 'second run' just to be sure.

So, for my cents worth, double trouble - no way, I'd think, research, reflect, and choose. It will give you a clearer focus after applying.

Good luck,

Rich.

"I am not an expert and Canada is not Shangri-La".

Just a side note to Rich, I carried a copy of my application (1.4lb of paper) with me everywhere I went for the first couple weeks, so I could check immediately every time I had a panic attack that I had forgotten something, entered a wrong address for former residence, doubt my NOC code, ......

get the picture????
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Old Jul 5th 2005, 10:55 am
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Default Re: Applying to 2 countries at once

Originally Posted by nowanalivhenomo
I'll look into the skill recognition more closely - cheers for the info.

Now, Australia - funnily enough was our original choice as we spent 6 months in Oz and absolutely fell in love with the place. We just don't reckon we will get in - our only route in is via the Skilled Worker route and we don't score the 120 needed to get started ( i get 110 and my girlfriend gets 105).
Presumably having counted points for spouse skills, if you are a de-facto couple, but even that only gives you 5 points (the points test could always change)

There is a new visa in existence - Skilled Independent Regional (SIR) which effectively you only need 100 points for with effect from 1 July. You spend 2 years as a temporary resident with the idea being you get permanency after having settled somewhere less populous.

South Australia and Tasmania are the two states most interested in this scheme and both states are eligible in their entirety.
Visit http://www.immi.gov.au for details.


Without going in to too much detail we both are in the web/design field and our skills are not that in demand in Australia - for this reason i don't think sponsorship would be possible because of the hoops companies have to jump thru to sponsor an immigrant.
I don't know how keen the Australian states are to sponsor IT people for SIR. You'd have to find out if interested.

States in Australia can also sponsor for permanent residence from Day 1, but if in IT you'd need some pretty specialised skills.

In all these cases you would still generally need to meet Australian Computer Society requirements to migrate on the basis of IT - http://www.acs.org.au

Jeremy
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