Any points update

Old Sep 13th 2004, 10:00 am
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Default Any points update

Ladies and Gents

Its not far away since the Canadian Govt dropped the points to enter Canada from 75 to 67, lowered in September 2003.

Has anyone heard about, or seen any documentation to say what is now going to happen to the points system.
It was to be reviewed after one year, well here we are !!!!.

Will it remain at 67, go back to 75, or as a few folk have suggested it may actually rise to somewhere around the 70 mark.

Your views would be greatly appreciated for this would be, UK / Scottish future immigrant

Eddie
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Old Sep 13th 2004, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Any points update

We'll have to wait and see...

Originally Posted by Voyager970
Ladies and Gents

Its not far away since the Canadian Govt dropped the points to enter Canada from 75 to 67, lowered in September 2003.

Has anyone heard about, or seen any documentation to say what is now going to happen to the points system.
It was to be reviewed after one year, well here we are !!!!.

Will it remain at 67, go back to 75, or as a few folk have suggested it may actually rise to somewhere around the 70 mark.

Your views would be greatly appreciated for this would be, UK / Scottish future immigrant

Eddie
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Old Sep 13th 2004, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Any points update

Originally Posted by Voyager970
Ladies and Gents

Its not far away since the Canadian Govt dropped the points to enter Canada from 75 to 67, lowered in September 2003.

Has anyone heard about, or seen any documentation to say what is now going to happen to the points system.
It was to be reviewed after one year, well here we are !!!!.

Will it remain at 67, go back to 75, or as a few folk have suggested it may actually rise to somewhere around the 70 mark.

Your views would be greatly appreciated for this would be, UK / Scottish future immigrant

Eddie

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Old Sep 14th 2004, 7:58 pm
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Default Re: Any points update

Originally Posted by Voyager970
Ladies and Gents

Its not far away since the Canadian Govt dropped the points to enter Canada from 75 to 67, lowered in September 2003.

Has anyone heard about, or seen any documentation to say what is now going to happen to the points system.
It was to be reviewed after one year, well here we are !!!!.

Will it remain at 67, go back to 75, or as a few folk have suggested it may actually rise to somewhere around the 70 mark.

Your views would be greatly appreciated for this would be, UK / Scottish future immigrant

Eddie
Maybe worth getting your application sent off BEFORE they announce anything, as you will be put into the points catagory at the time/date they recieve your application, and if it goes up it MAY be out of your reach. I managed to get mine in early this year.......phew!!!!!!!
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Old Sep 14th 2004, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: Any points update

Weener, read the previous posts on "passmark change". The current system/law is very inhumane! You will need to meet the passmark when the CIC received your application as well as passmark on the date of visa granting.

In a nut shell. If you have 70 when you apply under 65 passmark, you certainly pass the application stage. However, if on the day you are about to get the visa, the passmark go to 75. Unlucky you, because your case will be dismissed, and you will not get the visa.

Let's hope that CIC will not retros our application.
didik
Originally Posted by weener
Maybe worth getting your application sent off BEFORE they announce anything, as you will be put into the points catagory at the time/date they recieve your application, and if it goes up it MAY be out of your reach. I managed to get mine in early this year.......phew!!!!!!!
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Old Sep 14th 2004, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: Any points update

Originally Posted by didik
Weener, read the previous posts on "passmark change". The current system/law is very inhumane! You will need to meet the passmark when the CIC received your application as well as passmark on the date of visa granting.

In a nut shell. If you have 70 when you apply under 65 passmark, you certainly pass the application stage. However, if on the day you are about to get the visa, the passmark go to 75. Unlucky you, because your case will be dismissed, and you will not get the visa.

Let's hope that CIC will not retros our application.
didik
Oh Right, thanks for that didik, i didn't realise that, lets hope they keep the points down for at least the next 18 months then
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 1:13 am
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Default Re: Any points update

What is the exact date of the anniversary ?
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 1:26 am
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Default Re: Any points update

Originally Posted by smitp11
What is the exact date of the anniversary ?
18th September. Not that that is likely to make any difference to when they change it again, I'd have thought.
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 6:28 am
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Default Re: Any points update

Unfortunately it is in the law - applicant must meet all selection criteria not only at the time of application but also at the time visa is to be issued. Thus any change to pass mark will be applied retroactively to all still pending applications, exactly as it was when it was last time changed on Sep 18th last year.

We may only hope that CIC will listen to all of us and make some sort of compromise (as it is in their power to do so) by not applying higher pass mark to already pending cases - but I was told numerous times by CIC officials not to hold my breath for such compromise. It won't stop us from hoping though ...

Originally Posted by weener
Oh Right, thanks for that didik, i didn't realise that, lets hope they keep the points down for at least the next 18 months then
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 6:46 am
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Default Re: Any points update

Judging by how "angry " some people seem to get on thse forum pages, and how frustrated people are at having to wait so long before hearing from Immigration, I think if they didn't make some sort of compromise, some of the 200,000 + possible immigrants they say they want in Canada, are likely to descend on their offices and lynch someone!
Couldn't they be seen as obtaining money under false pretences ?
Oh well I suppose I had better keep more than just my fingers crossed!
Linda



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Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Unfortunately it is in the law - applicant must meet all selection criteria not only at the time of application but also at the time visa is to be issued. Thus any change to pass mark will be applied retroactively to all still pending applications, exactly as it was when it was last time changed on Sep 18th last year.

We may only hope that CIC will listen to all of us and make some sort of compromise (as it is in their power to do so) by not applying higher pass mark to already pending cases - but I was told numerous times by CIC officials not to hold my breath for such compromise. It won't stop us from hoping though ...
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 7:03 am
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Default Re: Any points update

What "false pretences"???? Nobody is making any such "false pretences" (except maybe for some less than ethical immigration practitioners who tell their clients that pass mark won't be applied retroactively).

It is clearly stated in the law for every applicant to see - read here please:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec77.html

Please don't be offended but ignorance of the law is not an excuse in most jurisdiction in this world of ours. And law is published, available for everyone to read and links to it are clearly provided on CIC website.


Originally Posted by gooding
Judging by how "angry " some people seem to get on thse forum pages, and how frustrated people are at having to wait so long before hearing from Immigration, I think if they didn't make some sort of compromise, some of the 200,000 + possible immigrants they say they want in Canada, are likely to descend on their offices and lynch someone!
Couldn't they be seen as obtaining money under false pretences ?
Oh well I suppose I had better keep more than just my fingers crossed!
Linda



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Old Sep 15th 2004, 7:54 am
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Default Re: Any points update

Andrew, you're right and wrong at the same time. While it is true that the law is there on the web, the CIC should clearly state the changing pass mark situation on the page with the self-assessment tool or somwhere where most people end up when they apply. It is the same as with all the other legal contracts, where certain statements are usually marked in red or bold up-front instead of letting people go through pages of small print and legal lingo. I missed this fact myself and I am usually very petty with details.

While I understand the rationale behind the floating mark, the only right thing to do by CIC is to specify it clearly so that they won't collect all this money and crash many people's dreams when the pass mark suddenly goes up. Unless money is the issue of course...

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
What "false pretences"???? Nobody is making any such "false pretences" (except maybe for some less than ethical immigration practitioners who tell their clients that pass mark won't be applied retroactively).

It is clearly stated in the law for every applicant to see - read here please:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec77.html

Please don't be offended but ignorance of the law is not an excuse in most jurisdiction in this world of ours. And law is published, available for everyone to read and links to it are clearly provided on CIC website.
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 8:02 am
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Default Re: Any points update

It is the applicant who should learn the rules he or she wants to apply under and CIC has provided access to the law, rules and even Immigration Manual for everyone to follow.

It is not the money issue as CIC by law cannot make any profit out of immigration fees - more, Canadian government's expenses associated with new immigrants are several times higher than fees collected from applications.



Originally Posted by bartM
Andrew, you're right and wrong at the same time. While it is true that the law is there on the web, the CIC should clearly state the changing pass mark situation on the page with the self-assessment tool or somwhere where most people end up when they apply. It is the same as with all the other legal contracts, where certain statements are usually marked in red or bold up-front instead of letting people go through pages of small print and legal lingo. I missed this fact myself and I am usually very petty with details.

While I understand the rationale behind the floating mark, the only right thing to do by CIC is to specify it clearly so that they won't collect all this money and crash many people's dreams when the pass mark suddenly goes up. Unless money is the issue of course...
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 8:45 am
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Default Re: Any points update

Ok, you don't seem to understand what I mean. Let's say you get a credit card with statement of 0% APR and in the end of the booklet with legal contract it says in small print that APR is like 50% for people over 16. You're right, it's your responsibility to read it but any court in the US or Europe would rule in favour of the customer and there have already been cases like this.

As for the money issue, expenses with new immigrants may be high or not, depending on the time horizon. But we're talking about people that are not "new immigrants" yet and pay money up-front. If the pass-mark is raised, they're out of luck and cash and that is why CIC should clearly put the statement of this particular rule next to the current pass-mark. In this way, applicants that often come from poor countries wouldn't fall prey to incompetent and dishonest lawyers that claim lock-up dates. I cannot see how you can say it should be otherwise.


Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
It is the applicant who should learn the rules he or she wants to apply under and CIC has provided access to the law, rules and even Immigration Manual for everyone to follow.

It is not the money issue as CIC by law cannot make any profit out of immigration fees - more, Canadian government's expenses associated with new immigrants are several times higher than fees collected from applications.
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Old Sep 15th 2004, 10:43 am
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Default Re: Any points update

No, I understand you correctly - if we would follow your suggestion then CIC should put fine print after almost every statement they make on their website. Instead they always state that info provided on their website and in the application kits is for basic information only and for details you should refer to proper laws and Regulations. As for the pass mark - if you go to "Immigrate as Skilled Worker" page there is a small window in the right corner below the title and there is a link to pass mark:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled...-passmark.html

If you read the Notice you'll see that "The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Canada may amend the pass mark from time to time."

This simple notice should alert you and prompt you to check with relevant law and Regulations. Taking this action would lead you to section 77 of Regulations:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec77.html

There are many more (other than pass mark) factors that may be misinterpreted by applicants who simply follow only application kits and CIC website without checking with ever changing Regulations and Operational Memoranda. It is impossible for CIC to keep tab on all those factors and provide fine print on every page for those who don't want to follow the basic advice to read the law.



Originally Posted by bartM
Ok, you don't seem to understand what I mean. Let's say you get a credit card with statement of 0% APR and in the end of the booklet with legal contract it says in small print that APR is like 50% for people over 16. You're right, it's your responsibility to read it but any court in the US or Europe would rule in favour of the customer and there have already been cases like this.

As for the money issue, expenses with new immigrants may be high or not, depending on the time horizon. But we're talking about people that are not "new immigrants" yet and pay money up-front. If the pass-mark is raised, they're out of luck and cash and that is why CIC should clearly put the statement of this particular rule next to the current pass-mark. In this way, applicants that often come from poor countries wouldn't fall prey to incompetent and dishonest lawyers that claim lock-up dates. I cannot see how you can say it should be otherwise.
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