any one know about Kelowna

Old Sep 1st 2005, 10:04 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by tableland

Taxation

Canadians pay more tax per capita than Americans. The average Canadian tax burden is 49.3% of his income. The US one is somewhere in the 20s. If you moved from Virginia to British Columbia and you earned $50,000 a year, it would take a 17.4% increase to maintain your standard of living.
Where are you getting your data from?!!! Care to provide evidence?


Originally Posted by tableland
Fuel

The average price of fuel in the US is $2.00, and in Canada it is over $4.00.
Another bull...

Here in Vancouver area liter of regular is just under Can$1.10 (under US$1.00) while just across the border in Washington same gas goes for US$0.85 per liter. So, get your facts straight my friend. There was no gas price below US$ 2.50 per gallon in west coast of US for almost half a year now.

AAA website states that US national average as per last week of US$ 2.68 per gallon of regular gas, which is about Can$ 3.22 per gallon - Canadian average prices are still under Can$ 1.00 per liter, with the exception of large cities where prices are near Can$ 1.10 per liter.

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Old Sep 1st 2005, 11:56 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

I am based in Ohio (Mid West) . I paid 3.1 $ per gallon for Shell plus gasoline today. Premium was 3.2 or 3.3 USD. Its going crazy. According to CNN , after that New Orlean Hurrican , some gas stations in US are also selling it for over 5$ per gallon. Its crazy . Here is the link ,

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/01/mark...ices/index.htm

Drivers in Atlanta said stations were charging well over $3 a gallon for regular unleaded, and at least one station in Stockbridge, Ga., was charging customers $5.87 a gallon.
:scared: :scared:
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Old Sep 1st 2005, 1:02 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Wow! This thread certainly went a bit off track.

Good conversation, though...

Oggy
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Old Sep 1st 2005, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by NessieOggy
Wow! This thread certainly went a bit off track.

Good conversation, though...

Oggy
Heehee!! I just read quietly and smiled more than once......
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Old Sep 1st 2005, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Visiting

I have spent long periods of time in both nations, I have spent time in three different provinces of Canada and in my time been to over 20 US states.

Healthcare

It is illegal for any Canadian citizen to carry private insurance for healthcare services *beyond* that provided by the government. Perhaps I should have been clearer. The CBC sums it up best when it says "Currently, private health care does not mean that you can move to the front of the line because you can afford to pay more." This, I'm sure you will agree differs from the standard US system. Of course there are some publicly-funded hospitals in the US, but I cannot credit that someone with your obvious intelligence cannot understand the fundamental differences between the Canadian and US healthcare systems. I just do not accept it.

Crime

Those statistics might not be of much use to your argument, but there they are nonetheless.

Measurements

Like in the UK, we too have odd metric weights where they have simply converted from the Imperial. Seeing signs all over the place stating 120km changes the cultural landscape from one rooted in the Anglo-Saxon tradition to another type of nation altogether.

Andrew

Tax

"Between 1961 and 2000, for example,the average Canadian family's tax bill rose from 33.5 percent to 47.5 percent of its income." *The Fraser Institute*. Now in 2005 it's more like 48% or a little higher. The latest US figure I could find states 33% for 2000. This is at TaxFoundation. This is a 14.5% difference in the averager tax burden. Significant, I'm sure you will agree.

Standard of living indexes

www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp

The facts posted above are correct. They go into much more detail about the greater expense of Canada as a matter of fact, but I omitted them for the sake of brevity.

Fuel

Even if we take your AAA figure for gas ($2.50US a gallon), then my point stands. In Canada it's $1CAD a litre, which is somewhere in the region of $4CAD a gallon, or $3.40US. This means that according to your own figures Canadian gas is 36% more expensive than US gas. This was my point in the first place.
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Old Sep 2nd 2005, 1:47 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by tableland
It is illegal for any Canadian citizen to carry private insurance for healthcare services *beyond* that provided by the government. Perhaps I should have been clearer. The CBC sums it up best when it says "Currently, private health care does not mean that you can move to the front of the line because you can afford to pay more." This, I'm sure you will agree differs from the standard US system. Of course there are some publicly-funded hospitals in the US, but I cannot credit that someone with your obvious intelligence cannot understand the fundamental differences between the Canadian and US healthcare systems. I just do not accept it..
Everything is technically illegal in Ontario, don't pay too much attention to what the government says you can and cannot do.

This week I went to the hospital for an x-ray. I tired of waiting in line and asked if there was somewhere I could get it done more quickly if I paid. The hospital arranged for me to go offsite. I intend to attach the receipt to my tax return. This experience is, I think, the stereotypical image of US (or modern NHS) healthcare, but I'm in Ontario. In some US hospitals the same could happen but US healthcare is delivered in myriad ways. If one is a member of an HMO, the HMO often will not allow the use of other facilities (regardless of who pays) and the members have to wait. In Oregon and Hawaii heathcare is (sort of) socialised, it's free (at the point of service) but one must wait. Then there are county hospitals which are free but one must wait and wait and perhaps die waiting in line. The US system most comparable to the in Ontario is that of the VA, the single payer system mentioned before. Clients at the VA can opt out only for specific procedures just as I did this week.

Originally Posted by tableland
Those statistics might not be of much use to your argument, but there they are nonetheless.
My argument is that, by and large, people get shot in cities. It is therefore of no value to compare whole countries; of course the murder rate 150 miles north of the US border is close to zero, the population is close to zero. This point is driven home to me frequently as I live with an American from the Western Slope, her mother frets constantly about her being in Toronto as she sees the gang shootings on the news and thinks of the city as Compton North.

Originally Posted by tableland
Like in the UK, we too have odd metric weights where they have simply converted from the Imperial. Seeing signs all over the place stating 120km changes the cultural landscape from one rooted in the Anglo-Saxon tradition to another type of nation altogether.
In the UK it is the exception for items to be labelled in odd measures, here it's usual. I believe, for example, that butter there comes in 500g slabs. I suppose 500 to be half of some metric thingy whereas 455g is a straight translation of an actual weight. This is a significant difference as, multiplying 455 is awkward, multiplying 500 is not. The former suggests a culture whereby people ordinarilly convert to imperial, do their arthimetic and convert back, the latter suggests adoption of metric.

Last night I chatted with someone who had just started at a cooking school in Toronto, I was delighted to see that all her tools and equipment were marked only ounces. I asked about metric and was told that imperial measures were needed so as to match the text books.

Your point about the loss of the Anglo-Saxon tradition can, I think, be shown to be invalid by the following examples; Australians remain earthily Anglo-Saxon despite using metric and the French in Ontario (and Lousiane) are not even vaguely Anglo-Saxon despite measuring properly.


Where I'm trying to go with all this is not to show that the US and Canada are the same, they aren't, but to show that the differences are not great.They're small enough for America Lite to be an accurate description of Canada. India or Iraq might be examples of places not like the US.
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Old Sep 2nd 2005, 8:05 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

certainly has got off track..and to what advantage..?
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Old Sep 2nd 2005, 8:29 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf
certainly has got off track..and to what advantage..?

The amusement of those posting ?
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Old Sep 2nd 2005, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Well, I can only really look at legal activities because if a man can do whatever he feels like then it doesn't matter what country he lives in, if you know what I mean.

As for crime, my point was based on international comparisons. I accept your point about the difference between rural and urban after-dark activities for scumbags though. I am sure however that US urban gun crime puts the Canadian version in the amateur league, if only because of access to firearms. My experience of rural America (VA) was that neighbours didn't even lock their doors at night - something out of the question in almost all of the UK.

In terms of measures, in my kitchen cupboard there is a 255g bottle of HP sauce, a 270g bottle of ketchup, a 454g tin of syrup and a 568ml bottle of vinegar, to name a few. This is in a nation where the majority of people (and nearly all adults) use imperial. In the UK we have a society for traditional weights and measures that is trying to halt the progress of metric. I used to support this, but frankly, the older I get, the more metric appeals to my sense of logic. The US gallon, I belive, is smaller than the UK gallon - I mean, come on, let's have some consistency here.....I love your comment about measuring "properly" though. I was raised on imperial and metric so I'm bilingual in terms of measurements. The use of metric in Australia is practically total, but I think they wouldn't appreciate you likening them to pommies. And please don't bring the French into this....

India and Iraq are in a different league altogether though. We're talking about modern first world western liberal democracies: UK, Australia, New Zealand, US and Canada, etc. I would argue that Canada is more like the first three than the US because they are commonwealth nations, they are parliamentary democracies, they are monarchies, they have strong public healthcare systems (Australia partially so), they have relatively low crime, and so on.

In terms of politics, Australia is more like the US than Canada is.

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Old Sep 3rd 2005, 1:02 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by tableland
Well, I can only really look at legal activities because if a man can do whatever he feels like then it doesn't matter what country he lives in, if you know what I mean.

As for crime, my point was based on international comparisons. I accept your point about the difference between rural and urban after-dark activities for scumbags though. I am sure however that US urban gun crime puts the Canadian version in the amateur league, if only because of access to firearms. My experience of rural America (VA) was that neighbours didn't even lock their doors at night - something out of the question in almost all of the UK.

In terms of measures, in my kitchen cupboard there is a 255g bottle of HP sauce, a 270g bottle of ketchup, a 454g tin of syrup and a 568ml bottle of vinegar, to name a few. This is in a nation where the majority of people (and nearly all adults) use imperial. In the UK we have a society for traditional weights and measures that is trying to halt the progress of metric. I used to support this, but frankly, the older I get, the more metric appeals to my sense of logic. The US gallon, I belive, is smaller than the UK gallon - I mean, come on, let's have some consistency here.....I love your comment about measuring "properly" though. I was raised on imperial and metric so I'm bilingual in terms of measurements. The use of metric in Australia is practically total, but I think they wouldn't appreciate you likening them to pommies. And please don't bring the French into this....

India and Iraq are in a different league altogether though. We're talking about modern first world western liberal democracies: UK, Australia, New Zealand, US and Canada, etc. I would argue that Canada is more like the first three than the US because they are commonwealth nations, they are parliamentary democracies, they are monarchies, they have strong public healthcare systems (Australia partially so), they have relatively low crime, and so on.

In terms of politics, Australia is more like the US than Canada is.

Not too much to disagree with there, tableland, and I do know what you mean. Ontario has so many laws though, and the Harris government promised not to enforce some they passed, so non-compliance has become a way of life.

Today we went to Niagara, I chuckled at the road signs, one way it was another 112k, in the other direction Toronto was 57k. Metric just never involves round numbers. On the radio someone was reported to have thought the wind in New Orleans went at 161kph. We know he said 100mph and that every listener will convert back to 100mph but the CBC is government funded; they have to doctor even direct quotes. It's all very silly.

We went to Niagara, btw, to have another go at getting my domestic partner admittedly legally. Last week she was refused entry on a study permit because she didn't have the original documents used for the application (you don't actually need them but we weren't about to argue law with a border guard). This week we got a different border guard and my partner was allowed in on the basis of a letter from CIC saying "claim your study permit at the border". Last week she went to school without any documentation, a living example of how we all break the law every day as the bureaucracy involved in not breaking the law is simply insurmountable.
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Old Sep 3rd 2005, 11:03 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by dbd33
Not too much to disagree with there, tableland, and I do know what you mean. Ontario has so many laws though, and the Harris government promised not to enforce some they passed, so non-compliance has become a way of life.

Today we went to Niagara, I chuckled at the road signs, one way it was another 112k, in the other direction Toronto was 57k. Metric just never involves round numbers. On the radio someone was reported to have thought the wind in New Orleans went at 161kph. We know he said 100mph and that every listener will convert back to 100mph but the CBC is government funded; they have to doctor even direct quotes. It's all very silly.

We went to Niagara, btw, to have another go at getting my domestic partner admittedly legally. Last week she was refused entry on a study permit because she didn't have the original documents used for the application (you don't actually need them but we weren't about to argue law with a border guard). This week we got a different border guard and my partner was allowed in on the basis of a letter from CIC saying "claim your study permit at the border". Last week she went to school without any documentation, a living example of how we all break the law every day as the bureaucracy involved in not breaking the law is simply insurmountable.

If there's one thing that drives me mad is PC airbrushing of things like your 161kph quote. The BBC - practically a subsidiary department of the New Labour party - is the world champion at this. Although they generally give measurements in both there is no coherency at all. The problem is that the guys that work for places like the bbc and cbc think the rest of us are as thick as two short planks. The news coverage of the New Orleans disaster here, particularly on Channel 4 but also BBC1 has been disgraceful. I said just last night that I have never seen such politically biased reporting in my life.
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Old Sep 4th 2005, 1:06 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by dbd33
The amusement of those posting ?
And those reading.
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Old Sep 4th 2005, 8:04 pm
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

I love Kelowna! The Okanagan area is known as the Sylicon Vinyard, advertising itself for Hightech jobs. Now I'm not too sure if it's all talk or not till I finaly get out there, hopefully I'll soon find out! Great friendly people, not too far from Vancouver, fantastic weather, great skiing, ohh and did I mention the lake?? To me it's (or it sounds) perfect.

Ah hem, sorry, carry on, what was that about the percentage of left handed, non-american moustached cat owners with gun convictions?
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Old Sep 5th 2005, 2:16 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

36.1%

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Old Sep 5th 2005, 2:41 am
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Default Re: any one know about Kelowna

Originally Posted by Bleech
I love Kelowna! The Okanagan area is known as the Sylicon Vinyard, advertising itself for Hightech jobs. Now I'm not too sure if it's all talk or not till I finaly get out there, hopefully I'll soon find out! Great friendly people, not too far from Vancouver, fantastic weather, great skiing, ohh and did I mention the lake?? To me it's (or it sounds) perfect.

Ah hem, sorry, carry on, what was that about the percentage of left handed, non-american moustached cat owners with gun convictions?
ahh finaly..talk about Kelowna...heheheee ..you are SO right....**S**
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