Another annoying ETA question

Old Sep 16th 2016, 12:07 am
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Default Another annoying ETA question

I'm a bit late to the game on this one...don't quite know how I missed it all.

Anyway, I am a PR and my husband a dual citizen (not got a passport but will be getting one now).

However, his parents are UK born but lived in Canada for 11 years in the 80s/90s they got citizenship but never the actual passports. So they are dual citizens. In order to travel here they will need to get Canadian passports? OR can they just tick no on the ETC application and play dumb if they get questioned at immigration?
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 12:12 am
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Hi


Originally Posted by saz1983
I'm a bit late to the game on this one...don't quite know how I missed it all.

Anyway, I am a PR and my husband a dual citizen (not got a passport but will be getting one now).

However, his parents are UK born but lived in Canada for 11 years in the 80s/90s they got citizenship but never the actual passports. So they are dual citizens. In order to travel here they will need to get Canadian passports? OR can they just tick no on the ETC application and play dumb if they get questioned at immigration?

1. I would assume that the citizenship data base will be checked, and the eta refused as they are citizens.
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 12:21 am
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by PMM
Hi





1. I would assume that the citizenship data base will be checked, and the eta refused as they are citizens.
I would have preferred that you had used allegedly the citizenship data base will be checked
OP they can fly to the USA and then cross over by land into Canada without the need for eTA and a Canadian passport. They would require ESTA for the US though.
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 6:09 am
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Hi

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
I would have preferred that you had used allegedly the citizenship data base will be checked
OP they can fly to the USA and then cross over by land into Canada without the need for eTA and a Canadian passport. They would require ESTA for the US though.

1. They will at least check for PR (they seem to be doing that) and unless the parents received their citizenship through descent, then the names will come up as PRs.
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Technically speaking they need to get Canadian passports as they are ineligible for eTA (because of their Canadian citizenship). The only way to "play dumb" is to lie on the eTA application. It specifically asks applicants to indicate which countries they are a citizen of.
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
Technically speaking they need to get Canadian passports as they are ineligible for eTA (because of their Canadian citizenship). The only way to "play dumb" is to lie on the eTA application. It specifically asks applicants to indicate which countries they are a citizen of.
^^This.

I was wondering if a Brit passport plus Canadian citizen certificate would be acceptable to be allowed on the plane, so looked it up. It seems not:

Travel documents for dual Canadian citizens flying to Canada
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 9:49 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
Technically speaking they need to get Canadian passports as they are ineligible for eTA (because of their Canadian citizenship). The only way to "play dumb" is to lie on the eTA application. It specifically asks applicants to indicate which countries they are a citizen of.
Technically they could but then legally if on arrival in Canada they could be charged under section 127 of IRPA
Misrepresentation

127 No person shall knowingly

(a) directly or indirectly misrepresent or withhold material facts relating to a relevant matter that induces or could induce an error in the administration of this Act;

and then receive the following under section 128
Penalties

128 A person who contravenes a provision of section 126 or 127 is guilty of an offence and liable

(a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine of not more than $100,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years, or to both; or

(b) on summary conviction, to a fine of not more than $50,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than two years, or to both.

And playing dumb under this is not an excuse nor a defence.
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 11:06 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Penalties for misrepresentation are very severe for Canadian citizens.

S
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 3:20 am
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by Shirtback
I was wondering if a Brit passport plus Canadian citizen certificate would be acceptable to be allowed on the plane, so looked it up. It seems not:

Travel documents for dual Canadian citizens flying to Canada
A Canadian birth cert is not proof of Canadian citizenship. There are people with Canadian birth certs who are not Canadian citizens. For example, those who were born in Canada and later renounced their Canadian citizenship (such as Conrad Black). Also children of foreign diplomats do not acquire Canadian citizenship by birth in Canada but can still obtain a Canadian birth cert.
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 12:35 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
A Canadian birth cert is not proof of Canadian citizenship. There are people with Canadian birth certs who are not Canadian citizens. For example, those who were born in Canada and later renounced their Canadian citizenship (such as Conrad Black). Also children of foreign diplomats do not acquire Canadian citizenship by birth in Canada but can still obtain a Canadian birth cert.
I know. I was talking about citizenship certificates.
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 12:42 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by MarylandNed
A Canadian birth cert is not proof of Canadian citizenship. There are people with Canadian birth certs who are not Canadian citizens. ....
I've got one...although it does say born in Bristol UK.

When we went to do the marriage licence thing in Quebec they said I needed to get a Quebec version of a birth cert.

No idea if this was a Canada requirement, a Quebec requirement or just a lack of knowledge on their part.

Whatever it was I got one - and that was a rigmarole too.
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 1:08 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by Shirtback
I know. I was talking about citizenship certificates.
But then there is an argument that as a Canadian Citizenship Certificate has no expiry date or photo on it then if you had renounced citizenship you would have a certificate that says you are

Now what they could have done is use the honour system which they do with the eTA application anyway. Set up the application online which it is. It does ask if you hold multiple citizenships so you fill it in. Obviously those who don't hold Canadian citizenship would be stupid to say that they are to avoid paying the $7 fee. Those who have dual citizenship but no Canadian passport could then answer Yes to Canadian citizenship but answer No to do you have a valid Canadian passport. Based on that information the website generates a legal statement attesting that you have indicated that you are a Canadian citizen without a valid Canadian passport. You then print that out and produce it when checking in with the airline and your other valid passport. You are then allowed to fly.

Now this is the good bit. CBSA scan your passport and note that no eTA was issued. They then ask for proof of Canadian citizenship from you. If at that point you are unable to produce prima facie evidence of Canadian citizenship then CBSA have the option of the following

1. Refuse you entry and put you back on the next plane
2. Charge you under section 127 of the Act and take you to court to be dealt with.

Aha but somebody will say what if they skip out on their charge and return before their court date? Well they will be found guilty in abstentia and if ever returning to Canada arrestable on arrival and held in custody to be brought before a court.

Of course this would never pass a legal test or be introduced if it did pass.
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 1:34 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I've got one...although it does say born in Bristol UK.

When we went to do the marriage licence thing in Quebec they said I needed to get a Quebec version of a birth cert.

No idea if this was a Canada requirement, a Quebec requirement or just a lack of knowledge on their part.

Whatever it was I got one - and that was a rigmarole too.
How on EARTH did you manage that?!

Do you mean you got a "certificat de naissance" from L'√Čtat civil"? I didn't think that was possible for a non-CDN citizen born abroad....
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 1:45 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
But then there is an argument that as a Canadian Citizenship Certificate has no expiry date or photo on it then if you had renounced citizenship you would have a certificate that says you are

Now what they could have done is use the honour system which they do with the eTA application anyway. Set up the application online which it is. It does ask if you hold multiple citizenships so you fill it in. Obviously those who don't hold Canadian citizenship would be stupid to say that they are to avoid paying the $7 fee. Those who have dual citizenship but no Canadian passport could then answer Yes to Canadian citizenship but answer No to do you have a valid Canadian passport. Based on that information the website generates a legal statement attesting that you have indicated that you are a Canadian citizen without a valid Canadian passport. You then print that out and produce it when checking in with the airline and your other valid passport. You are then allowed to fly.

Now this is the good bit. CBSA scan your passport and note that no eTA was issued. They then ask for proof of Canadian citizenship from you. If at that point you are unable to produce prima facie evidence of Canadian citizenship then CBSA have the option of the following

1. Refuse you entry and put you back on the next plane
2. Charge you under section 127 of the Act and take you to court to be dealt with.

Aha but somebody will say what if they skip out on their charge and return before their court date? Well they will be found guilty in abstentia and if ever returning to Canada arrestable on arrival and held in custody to be brought before a court.

Of course this would never pass a legal test or be introduced if it did pass.
It's a bit of a mess, isn't it

I have a PR acquaintance who insists his son is a Canadian citizen, because PR son originally arrived here as a baby. He (the dad) can't seem to get his head around the fact that although son is not required to take the citizenship/language tests, an application for citizenship still has to be made & it's not an automatic acquisition.

I've given up discussing it with him .
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: Another annoying ETA question

Originally Posted by Shirtback
It's a bit of a mess, isn't it

I have a PR acquaintance who insists his son is a Canadian citizen, because PR son originally arrived here as a baby. He (the dad) can't seem to get his head around the fact that although son is not required to take the citizenship/language tests, an application for citizenship still has to be made & it's not an automatic acquisition.

I've given up discussing it with him .
Tell him to apply for a Canadian passport for the son and see what replies he gets
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