edsask

I've just received my SAR reply from Lothian & Borders Police. My request was posted last Thursday (13th), and it was posted last Tuesday (18th). Another reason why you shouldn't go with an ACRO/Disclosure Scotland check - the SAR may take up to 40 days, but the old SAR can be extremely fast, too.

adele

Flippin' heck that was speedy! If only some of the other forces were as quick then everyone'd be happily spending their tenners and ACPO wouldn't have so many punters pouring £££ into their trial!

JaffaMafia

The reason why the Subject Access checks are coming back quicker for Scottish Forces is because the branch that deals with Scottish subject access only have to provide the service for 8 forces. Whereas NIS at New Scotland Yard have to provide the same service for 43 forces in England and Wales.

Consequently, NIS have to deal with around five times as many requests which is why, until last weekend, they were STILL working at close to the 40 day limit. Last weekend New Scotland Yard actually arranged for the Subject Access team to work overtime at the weekend to make a large dent in the backlog, this means that the checks for English and Welsh forces should be coming back quicker now.

As for the Basic Disclosure Scotland check it can only be used for employment purposes (not just in Scotland) and only if the job doesn't involve working with children or other vulnerable people.

Hope that helps.

PK1000

Hi, Sorry for sounding a bit thick.
Can someone put in easy terms the difference between the two checks.

PK

JaffaMafia

A Subject Access check is a copy of ALL the offence and conviction data stored on the Police National Computer (PNC). This includes offences that are considered spent under the Rehabilitation of Offender's Act 1974. These are offences that you wouldn't normally have to declare on a job application.

For example Joe Bloggs, who is now 58, was bit of a "wrong 'un" when he was in his late teens. Some forty or so years ago when he was 18 he stole a car when he was drunk and crashed it into a wall. He was arrested, charged and went to court where he was found guilty and fined £150 and banned for two years.

Now he has never offended since then so when he applies for a job he doesn't have to declare this conviction but when he gets a subject access check the offence is there in black and white for the world to see (if he shows them).

On the other hand, the ACRO Police certificate gets its data from the same source - the PNC, but it is "Stepped Down".

The Step Down process is a system whereby certain data on the PNC is "removed" from all searches of the PNC that are carried out for anybody other than the police.

The data isn't deleted, the results of the searches are just "edited" so that only relevant, current convictions are shown, so Joe's conviction from forty years ago won't show.

I think that has just about explained it - sorry for going on a bit. Any more questions, just ask

lauder99

Hi Jaffa

really appreciate your input on this.

Given that both US and Canadian forms (I wouldn't imagine Oz and NZ are different)ask have you ever been convicted. Isn't there the potential for the stepping down to cause confusion?

If Joe in your example applies to Canada and declares his 40 year old conviction as he is required to, surely CIC will raise an eyebrow when his ACPO check comes back clean.

On the flip side there may be people who get their check back clean and either by design or out of an assumption that if its clean they don't have anything to declare answer No to the question and it later comes back to bite them.

I have no particular problem with principle of the ACPO system other than the fact that it seems poorly researched for its intended purpose.

Good news about the overtime as our SARs are in the queue

Cheers
Tom

Warringtongal

When you say 'Joe's conviction won't show' - it won't show in detail but it will show there is past criminalty. It show's as 'Live Trace' but no detail. So Joe still has to decalre his past.

Warringtongal

fastlane

Hi there Warringtongal .
if your convictions are spent your police certificate comes back (NO LIVE TRACE) i phoned and asked

Warringtongal

Hi there!
That's right but along with it you get a second page explaining the PC. It says that 'Live Trace' means you do have a police record. It goes on to say that therefore YOU SHOULD decalre any previous convictions/arrests/cautions etc as the PC shows you have history. Lying on any question of criminality will automatically make you inadmissable.

So my point is 'No Live Trace' doesn't mean you are admissable. Even though they are spent or stepped down you still have to answer the questions on Criminality 'YES'.

Warringtongal

markan

Hi all, Ive just received my ACPO and ALL offences are stated on it going back to a criminal damage in 1980 and threatening behavior in 1982. So whats all this step down about ?.

Biiiiink

I guess those are actual convictions rather than "low category cautions" that the person in the email talked about?

JaffaMafia

Step-down as I explained above is a process whereby after a certain period of time criminal convictions are removed from a person's record when a search of that record is carried out by someone other than a police force.

There are three categories of offences (A,B & C) Category A are the really serious offences such as Murder, Armed Robbery etc. Category C are the minor offences such as simple possession (i.e. without an intent to supply) of drugs, theft, shoplifting etc.

Now the step-down period for an offence is dependent upon the age of the person when they committed the offence and how the offence was dealt with.

For example if an adult was given a prison sentence of more than 6 months for a category A offence then that offence will never step-down and will always be visible. for a category C offence that offence will be stepped-down after a clear period of 30 years. A juvenile (i.e. a person under the age of 18) given a reprimand or final warning for a category C offence will have that offence stepped-down after 5 years.

The offences will only step-down at the end of the retention period as long as the offender hasn't committed any further offences this is what is meant by a clear period. Any offence committed in this clear period will reset the clock and the original offence will remain visible until either the clear period for the new offence has expired or the current clear period expires whichever is the later.

For example if an adult is given a caution for an offence that carries a 5 year retention period but then is convicted of an offence with a 20 year retention period then neither offence will step-down until there has been a clear period of twenty years without another offence.

To use your example above, Criminal Damage is a category C offence which depending on your age at the time and how it was dealt with has a retention period of anywhere between 5 and 30 years. As is the Threatening Behaviour offence. This means that neither of these offences would be eligible for step-down before sometime in 1987 and only if no other offences had been committed in the meantime.

Hope this helps but you can find the Retention Guidelines at http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documen..._Retention.pdf

Thanks