Biiiiink

Hello all,

Despite the fact CIC haven't come out one way or the other, here's some info I had via email from the Information Commissioner's Office.

The "step down" information might be of interest to those with cautions/etc. But it's all moot until CIC start saying they're accepting these new checks, and actually accept more than 50:50 which is what the reported rate here on the forum is so far

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20th March 2008

Case Reference Number .....

Dear .....,

Thank you for you enquiry regarding the Pilot Project of Police Certificates being run by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Criminal Records Office. We are aware of the process and have been consulted during the project’s inception.

While the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has the status of a private company limited by guarantee it is not a simple profit making organisation. I understand the fees being charged by ACPO for issuing Police Certificates is based upon the cost of issuing the certificate. ACPO is funded by a combination of a Home Office grant, contributions from each of the 44 Police Authorities, membership subscriptions and by the proceeds of its annual exhibition. ACPO's members are police officers who hold the rank of Chief Constable, Deputy Chief Constable or Assistant Chief Constable, or their equivalents, in the forty four forces of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, national police agencies and certain other forces in the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and certain senior non-police staff. I believe there are presently 280 members of ACPO.

The process of Police Certificates was put together following concerns expressed by this office and the courts about the reuse of offence information held for extended periods by the police for the sole purpose of prevention and detection of crime.

‘Step down’ is a process introduced following a decision by the courts to permit the police to retain all caution and conviction data on individuals until the person reaches 100 years of age. Offences qualify for ‘stepping down’ within the retention period (for example, low category Cautions ‘step down’ 5 years after the offence if no further offences are recorded on the person). Once an offence is stepped down it is no longer normally disclosed to other organisations (such as to appear on Criminal Records Bureau Certificates) or used by the police for purposes other than crime prevention and detection. Stepped down offences must however be disclosed in the event of a subject access request for a person’s offence history.

The ‘subject access’ provisions in the Data Protection Act 1998 obligate the police to provide a copy of any offence information held about the individual on the Police National Computer rather than solely the offences relevant to a ‘certificate of good character’ or equivalent. I [sic]

Individuals can still insist on using the traditional ‘subject access’ process to ask for a copy of the personal data held about them on the Police National Computer. This right is set out in the Data Protection Act 1998. A person with no offence history is unlikely to be suffer significant detriment by using the traditional ‘subject access’ process. The police cannot however omit any information they hold about a person’s offence history when responding to a subject access request. Subject access request responses have never been considered to form police certificates of good character.

The process of Police was put together by ACPO in liaison with the US, NZ, Canada and Australia and the countries have been providing feedback to the process to ensure they (the foreign nations) receive the information they require. A person with an offence history is likely to benefit from using the Police Certificate process because offences that qualify for ‘stepping down’ from offence histories will be omitted from the Police Certificate.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Yours sincerely,
.....
Casework and Advice Officer

Andrew Miller

Biiiiink, I think it would be a good idea to add it to your sticky above and maybe even attach a scan of the letter (with identificators blacked out of course). Someone may find it useful.

edsask

I find it rather amusing that the police sees fit for only centurions to get their criminal records erased. Are there many 90-plus pensioners going on crime sprees these days?

JaffaMafia

Biiiiink.

Do you mind if I use this information? I told my boss as part of my review this week that I had been keeping an eye on the situation surrounding the ACRO Police Certificates. And she told me to keep checking for any new information and keep her updated.

This information would be quite useful.

Thanks

Biiiiink

Added to the sticky. There's no letter to scan though, it was just an email.

Jaffa, I didn't write it, but do what you want with the information contained in it It's interesting that cautions/convictions will disappear under this new check, I had assumed it to be more comprehensive that the old ones

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi Biiiink

So subject access it is. I am not paying £70 instead of £20 for the priviledge of being in a 'Pilot' in order to boost ACPO statistical figures. With no criminal record we, like many, know we have nothing to fear from subject access under Data protection Act 1998.

It would appear that this route is a tad ambiguous and now I understand why CIC's response has been anything but welcoming. After all they want to know everything about you....and this 'new' certificate would appear to hide things....albeit considered by our Police to be irrelevant....to CIC may be a different story.

In the completion of the immigration forms they ask you for disclosure of any offences. CIC are then left with a big question over you and yours or the Police's integrity.

Based on the above I have copied the information from your previous post to take with me for when we are steered towards the Acpo checks, and would advise others to do likewise until CIC give it full sanction.
Thanks for the info
Stef and Lins

Pollyana

So basically they are now going to be issuing a certificate without "spent" offences? Not sure what the wording is for Canadian immigration, but the Aussie forms ask for disclosure of all offences - which is now looking a bit odd if they are going to accept certificates which don't have all offences on them. The phrase "nothing is ever spent for migration purposes" will possibly no longer be true, certainly for Aus.

fastlane

Listen everyone this new police certificate will show spent convictions as (NO LIVE TRACE) this will let the CIC now that you have indeed a record, and they will act accordingly .

Biiiiink

So if that comes up on your new ACPO check, will you be asked for a plain ole' subject access check anyway for full disclosure of the convictions?

fastlane

Dunno
All i can do is forward what i have been told, i do know that a basic disclosure from disclosure Scotland will secure you a work permit.
Then when you submit your paper work for PR, CIC will want a police certificate or subject access report.

Biiiiink

Who said a Disclosure Scotland check is okay for a work permit? I've never heard that.

fastlane

Yep
A Basic disclosure is all you need for work permit, a couple of people i know have secured work permits with them

fastlane

Here is a snipit

7. Police Certificate - Original / copy United Kingdom Police Certificate, or Disclosure obtainable under the U.K Data Protection Act (contact your local police station on how to apply).

Biiiiink

Surely a "Disclosure obtainable under the U.K Data Protection Act (contact your local police station on how to apply)" is actually a plain old subject access check?

I really haven't ever heard of a Disclosure Scotland check being accepted for anything other than employment in Scotland. I'd advise you to look into it further if time/money is of the essence with your permit.


Even Disclosure Scotland themselves mention that they aren't likely to be accepted:

I intend to emigrate to another country. Will that country request details of my criminal history?

Unfortunately Disclosure Scotland cannot provide any definitive answer in this matter owing to the large number of countries involved and their individual immigration requirements.

It is possible that they may accept Basic Disclosures but Standard and Enhanced Disclosures are not available for these purposes. Alternatively, they may require a Subject Access Report which is available from UK police forces.

You should contact the Immigration Service of the country you intend to emigrate to and they should be able to confirm what information or documents you are required to provide.

http://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk/FAQ49x.htm

edsask

I'm not going to repeat what I've said in another relevant thread (which is here), but the summary is: The only kind of check that is guaranteed to be accepted by CIC is an SAR. Not a disclosure, not an ACPO check. These may be accepted in some cases, but they are not sure-fire. And with the kind of life-altering decisions moving to another country involves, the less risk there is, the better.