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*** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

*** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Old Jun 20th 2008, 11:19 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Hi,

I am intrigued as well about just how you disappear a ~1M backlog while continuing to accept new applications.

At one level the processing fee could be refunded for returned unprocessed applications - but that could add up to a pretty penny. So not without its disadvantage of asking for updated resubmission of applications under the pretence they are not being rejected.

A curious question will be the splitting of allocation annual quotas ("targets") between applications pre and post Feb 2008 if a dual standards system is maintained.

Presumably the way of avoiding the "returned unprocessed" bill is by a mass rejecting the applications through a retorspecitvely raised point pass mark which I belive they can do for all post 2002 applications under pre existing legislation.

And there is the issue of do they try to update an oldesst application with current NOC data before rejecting it / returning it / processing as normal.

I can see no way that you get rid of the backlog without either rejecting the oldest bits of it and starting again on a mostly clean page of recent applications. Or effectively freezing it in a doldrums for all eternity and concentrating the new quotas in another direction - it all amounts to the same thing.

It is certianaly a tangled mess that I cant see the powers at large extracting themselves from this without breaking a few eggs and upsetting either the old pre Feb queue or the new post Feb queue by trying to balance quotas between the two queues.

I do hope they hurry up with their consultations / lists though as it seems like the system has effectively now ceased processing altogether for all practical purposes and that is not good for anyone.

Just my thoughts and speculation without facts or evidence.

Ben
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Old Jun 20th 2008, 11:47 pm
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
I recall a post in which Andrew Miller stated that the application fees that migrants paid were a drop in the bucket compared with the cost of admitting an immigrant to Canada and assisting that person and his/her family members to intergrate into Canada.

In that post Andrew quoted government statistics, and I remember being surprised at the numbers.

Unfortunately, as BE's search function is not working very effectively for me at the moment, I have not found the post in question. If I was really committed to finding the answer, I'd scroll through past threads manually. However, I'm not that committed.
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I tried to find it too as I also remember that post & wasn't that only 23% of immigrants were net contributors?? Not sure at all. However, whilst looking, found this....interesting and not what I would expect at all. May not be right but it's got lots of references....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economi...tion_to_Canada
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Old Jun 21st 2008, 7:16 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

These are all interesting points Ben..I think the frustrating part is that we just don't know what will happen.
If we look at applications, both old and new from an NOC perspective and occupations in demand, then one would hope that if "Truck Drivers" for example were on the list then those from the old applications would be processed first..first come first served right?....But seeing as they don't have that information readily available for the old applications, don't know about the new applications? Then who knows what will happen.
I guess the only thing that we can be certain about is that some people are going to be very happy and some are going to be very sad.
My understanding from a previous post in another thread is that once the occupations lists are generated and applications filtered against those, then any remainder of the visa quota would be used for progressing the other applications..
My understanding of the pre / post Feb 2008 change is around the immediate rejection of applications if they do not fit the bill, whereas they will not do that to the backlog (which does only seem fair when people have been waiting in a queue for upto 3 years), but it might be that they have to be cruel to be kind in that if there are reduced quotas then those people who have been waiting that long will potentially have to wait for double that if not more (who knows).
Another option could be that they clear all the backlog before they start any processing of the post Feb 2008 applications whilst another crew start filtering out the new applications but not actually progressing them.
As is mentioned in a few places..the one sure fire way to reduce the backlog which is within the ministers grasp is to increase the points mark..But as that is a nail in the political coffin of whichever government makes that choice I doubt it will happen..
Who knows..A lot of us are feeling very uncertain and uncomfortable at the moment and it is very unsettling times..espcially for those who are getting close to when they might be expecting update letters..
These are just my thoughts and interpretations of what I have read / understood from other posts but I know as little as everyone else..
Lets hope they sort it out fast though, for everyone involved..
Cheers
Tim

Originally Posted by BenB2
Hi,

I am intrigued as well about just how you disappear a ~1M backlog while continuing to accept new applications.

At one level the processing fee could be refunded for returned unprocessed applications - but that could add up to a pretty penny. So not without its disadvantage of asking for updated resubmission of applications under the pretence they are not being rejected.

A curious question will be the splitting of allocation annual quotas ("targets") between applications pre and post Feb 2008 if a dual standards system is maintained.

Presumably the way of avoiding the "returned unprocessed" bill is by a mass rejecting the applications through a retorspecitvely raised point pass mark which I belive they can do for all post 2002 applications under pre existing legislation.

And there is the issue of do they try to update an oldesst application with current NOC data before rejecting it / returning it / processing as normal.

I can see no way that you get rid of the backlog without either rejecting the oldest bits of it and starting again on a mostly clean page of recent applications. Or effectively freezing it in a doldrums for all eternity and concentrating the new quotas in another direction - it all amounts to the same thing.

It is certianaly a tangled mess that I cant see the powers at large extracting themselves from this without breaking a few eggs and upsetting either the old pre Feb queue or the new post Feb queue by trying to balance quotas between the two queues.

I do hope they hurry up with their consultations / lists though as it seems like the system has effectively now ceased processing altogether for all practical purposes and that is not good for anyone.

Just my thoughts and speculation without facts or evidence.

Ben

Last edited by Tim Steer; Jun 21st 2008 at 7:17 am. Reason: typo
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Old Jun 21st 2008, 9:13 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
I recall a post in which Andrew Miller stated that the application fees that migrants paid were a drop in the bucket compared with the cost of admitting an immigrant to Canada and assisting that person and his/her family members to intergrate into Canada.

In that post Andrew quoted government statistics, and I remember being surprised at the numbers.

Unfortunately, as BE's search function is not working very effectively for me at the moment, I have not found the post in question. If I was really committed to finding the answer, I'd scroll through past threads manually. However, I'm not that committed.
x
dont listen to him, it seems to me he`s just here to earn money. and he calls people s**m if they can do it cheaper quicker, and easier than him. its amazes me that a man who profits from peoples worries, fears and strife has the front to knock persons, who can help workers into the country
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Old Jun 21st 2008, 9:34 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Originally Posted by simeongb
dont listen to him, it seems to me he`s just here to earn money.
really?

Originally Posted by simeongb
and he calls people s**m if they can do it cheaper quicker, and easier than him.
where? evidence please

Originally Posted by simeongb
its amazes me that a man who profits from peoples worries, fears and strife has the front to knock persons, who can help workers into the country
what it is all about?

What have you lately contribute here simeongb?
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Old Jun 21st 2008, 10:30 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

I'm not sure personal attacks are warranted

I understood from another post that CIC were continuing processing whilst the lists are being agreed with all the provinces, although there certainly hasn't been much happening!!

Does anybody have any idea how long the consultation process with all the Provinces will take? It seems to me that this could take at least a right few months and then it has to be rolled out. So if this takes another while and they are not continuing to process, surely time scales at least in the short term will become much longer?
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Old Jun 21st 2008, 5:15 pm
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

I am sure that personal attacks are completely unwarranted. They only indicate that the attacker has nothing germane to contribute to the discussion. I have never met Andrew Miller but am always impressed by his depth of knowledge of immigration issues and broad understanding of Canada's immigration regulations.
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Old Jun 22nd 2008, 5:05 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

but is the $100 m realistic?, just to extract the NOC number from 1 million applications you need that much? that means $100 per application
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Old Jun 22nd 2008, 5:41 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

If money goes to hire temporary staff (or contractor), secure additional office spaces, terminals, etc. (basically creating jobs, even if temporary) then yes, it may be quite realistic.

Without doing the above CIC will have to use existing staff and resources, technically putting all current processing on hold for who knows how long.

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Jun 22nd 2008 at 5:44 am.
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Old Jun 22nd 2008, 11:27 am
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Hi,

What I wonder is for newly received applications going forwards, which they need to open to book name and whatever normal details to log its receipt into the system, whether they will log NOC data at the same time - seems an obvious thing to do. Then this makes you wonder if those new applications with NOC data get cross referenced against the list.

Which could suggest that the pool of cataloged applications for selecting against NOC data is comprised of new post June applications and whatever of the backlog that has been catalogued.

Or maybe they will hold on cataloguing all post Feb applications with NOC data before cross referencing any of them against the NOC data. Understandable I guess but more delays. It also assumes they manage to catch up on cataloging which depends on how far back they go...

Or maybe they will toss all post June applications in a box having captured details but not NOC data and work sequentially capturing NOC data on post Feb applications. A bit dumb in my opinion but I can see bureaucracies making that sort of choice.

What I guess we can agree on is that if they are going to hire in new staff to do all this cataloging - that process of setting up systems, supervisors, advertising, interviewing, finding buildings, getting workstations setup - that all takes a lot more time than you would think and that is before they have even started to do anything - 3 months maybe~? Which is scarily close to the November quota anniversary and a new processing year...... Or, they do it all themselves without external help and that is also going to take an amount of time as well?? I am guessing this would happen in each seperate visa post rather than being centerally co-ordinated if that paper work physically stays in the visa post to which you applied rather than a central archive.

It does give rise to an interesting race between CIC and the minsters office as to who gets the cataloging / consultation lists finished first - so politically they are then waiting on the other to do their bit and that is the reason for continued delays. Also - if processing is distributed across visa posts then the ones with the most applications have the biggests cataloging job to do - some other visa posts could finish a lot quicker (depending on man power) consider for exmaple Buffalo vs Dehli and the size of the back log in each office.

Which gets you thinking about which NOC codes get filled from differnent regions visa offices the quickest becase they are ready to start applying NOC data faster than other offices - potential for sort of thing where the indemand NOC skills get creamed out of western offices with shorter processing queues while things get upto speed.... I am sure that would be a very unintended consequence, especially if people in back logged regions that have only applied relatively recently pull their applications and re-apply under new NOC based rules because they figure they will get done quicker than the 7 year queue they are sat in - so we may see a huge surge in "new" applications for processing and the staffing overhead / delays that will cause if parts of the existing queues start resubmitting....


I myself rather wanted to have visibility of the NOC list before sending my application blind in August seeing as my employments span multiple NOC codes as is usually the case in smaller companies. I am now doubting a month and a half is going to be sufficient time for the consultation phase - buggers.

Struggling in a void of information,

Ben

Last edited by BenB2; Jun 22nd 2008 at 12:03 pm.
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Old Jun 27th 2008, 6:59 pm
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

i appreciate all Andrew's contribution here and he provides great help to everyone of us!!
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Old Jun 27th 2008, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Originally Posted by timu12
i appreciate all Andrew's contribution here and he provides great help to everyone of us!!
Ditto - and I certainly don't think he's here to try and drum up business. The time and effort he puts into this forum must far outweigh any business he receives from it. I've certainly never seen him pushing himself forward, it's usually others that recommend his services, and he seems to give free advice (which is always correct too, something worth noting) the vast majority of the time.

The rest of us appreciate you Andrew, please don't leave us!!

Last edited by christmasoompa; Jun 27th 2008 at 7:22 pm. Reason: Incorrect punctuation!
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Old Jun 27th 2008, 9:53 pm
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Originally Posted by Ibraheem
but is the $100 m realistic?, just to extract the NOC number from 1 million applications you need that much? that means $100 per application
Agreed - $100m is crazy talk!! For data entry lets assume 10 applications an hour, so for 1m applications that's 100,000 man hours. At $20/hr thats $2.0m. Double that for management time gives $4m. Office space - add 2 workstations accross lets say 20 offices? Call it $25,000 a fully burdened workstation thats another $1.0m. What the heck is the other $95m spent on?!?

Either I've screwed up calculations, or they intend to do a damn sight more than just take the NOC code.
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Old Jun 27th 2008, 10:31 pm
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Default Re: *** Immigration reform: inspired by Aussies?

Originally Posted by Rob_999
Agreed - $100m is crazy talk!! For data entry lets assume 10 applications an hour, so for 1m applications that's 100,000 man hours. At $20/hr thats $2.0m. Double that for management time gives $4m. Office space - add 2 workstations accross lets say 20 offices? Call it $25,000 a fully burdened workstation thats another $1.0m. What the heck is the other $95m spent on?!?

Either I've screwed up calculations, or they intend to do a damn sight more than just take the NOC code.
Yeabut, it's the Guvmint, innit?

Seriously though, don't forget that these are paper files situated all over the world (I think).
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