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*** Canadian Experience Class update ***

*** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Old Jan 12th 2008, 10:17 am
  #46  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Tarik
how can anyone acquire 2 years of work experience after graduation, if post-grad work permits for the most part are for 1 year (in Tdot, Vanc, Montreal)?

And I agree with Ethel. For example, Business and Finance positions O A B are out of reach for recent international grads. Employers invest considerable amount of resources and time to train graduates to become supervisors/managers/clerks etc. They will not invest knowing that after 1 year their application for LMO might get refused. So, they just don't bother. The same was with my job hunt after university. Recently, at least 3 of my friends left Canada for good after working in Toronto for a year at major banks. All our LMOs were rejected.

What should be done, is to issue permits for those who get jobs after graduation and make it less of a pain in the ass (maybe LMO exempt for a number of years?) to renew them until they land. After all, we've spent anywhere between 50-100K for our degrees in Canada.
I'm currently in chartered / public accountancy major.

When CA firms hire 'Junior accountant' or other entry level accountant - their only purpose is to train / invest time for the entry levels to achieve CA designation which may take at least 3 years to complete.

Canadian policy regarding the 1 year period is very unrealistic other than for 'general administrative' positions.

My point is: International student is at a clear disadvantage on the job market when they graduate. Canadian government has not done enough to tap the true potential segment of this potential immigration source.

I agree with Tarik that the solution should be either

1.) Issuance of immediate work permit after graduation (That is only valid with relevant job)

2.) Or by allowing International Student to apply for Permanent residence after graduation for certain major/degrees that is under demand.
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Old Jan 13th 2008, 8:18 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Do CIC have any action to start the research or amend the existing
skilled workers visa, such as re-structure the visa, or simply rise the passing mark?
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Old Jan 13th 2008, 9:23 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Pass mark can be changed at any time, technically overnight, and new pass mark will be applied not only new applications but also retroactively to all still pending cases (as per section 77 of Regulations).

But as government is clearly and steady moving towards employment based immigration - by implementing simplified "application" process in September 2006, giving lower processing priority to cases without arranged employment, creating CEC and shifting substantial part of annual visa quotas from SW class to CEC and PNP cases - there may be no need to do anything with pass mark.

Pass mark was intended to be a management tool for immigration program and changed often to control flaw of applications. It was never used as intended - quite opposite, it was used only once and only as a political tool by previous government trying to delay it's defeat.

Within next several years visa posts will complete processing of applications submitted prior to September 2006 and the only players from then on will be simplified "applications" waiting for who knows how long and who knows for what, SW cases with arranged employment and PNP cases processed on priority basis, taking majority (if not all) of available visa quotas. And of course Buffalo getting additional work as only office processing CEC cases will pay less attention to SW applications without arranged employment.

So, who needs to raise the pass mark now and face costly lawsuits? Even without merits such lawsuits would be extremely expensive.

As for selection criteria - their change requires time and going through the Parliament (at least through the Standing Committee on Immigration). Taking into consideration all of the above I don't see why government would even try.

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Jan 13th 2008 at 9:25 pm.
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Old Jan 13th 2008, 9:44 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Thank you for your reply.

Pending mean which status? Still waiting reply, request to hand out materials,
ME or even after ME but before PL?

By the way, should you quote the link of Justise in Canada related to R77?
Because the link, thank you!

In fact I'm not very old, and I want to earn more money now,
so I'm not worry about wait 3~5 years, but my concern is only about
can I go to Canada finally.

If Canada just slow the process but finally can go with only 67 marks,
I think some of applicants not worried about it.

I have one more question want to ask you, do the comlaw allow CIC
to adjust the definition of English requirement?
For example: moderate English is IELTS 5.0 ~ 6.9 now,
can CIC adjust it, request moderate English is IELTS 6.0 ~ 7.9?
Thank you.

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Pass mark can be changed at any time, technically overnight, and new pass mark will be applied not only new applications but also retroactively to all still pending cases (as per section 77 of Regulations).

But as government is clearly and steady moving towards employment based immigration - by implementing simplified "application" process in September 2006, giving lower processing priority to cases without arranged employment, creating CEC and shifting substantial part of annual visa quotas from SW class to CEC and PNP cases - there may be no need to do anything with pass mark.

Pass mark was intended to be a management tool for immigration program and changed often to control flaw of applications. It was never used as intended - quite opposite, it was used only once and only as a political tool by previous government trying to delay it's defeat.

Within next several years visa posts will complete processing of applications submitted prior to September 2006 and the only players from then on will be simplified "applications" waiting for who knows how long and who knows for what, SW cases with arranged employment and PNP cases processed on priority basis, taking majority (if not all) of available visa quotas. And of course Buffalo getting additional work as only office processing CEC cases will pay less attention to SW applications without arranged employment.

So, who needs to raise the pass mark now and face costly lawsuits? Even without merits such lawsuits would be extremely expensive.

As for selection criteria - their change requires time and going through the Parliament (at least through the Standing Committee on Immigration). Taking into consideration all of the above I don't see why government would even try.

Last edited by immigrants; Jan 13th 2008 at 10:04 pm.
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Old Jan 13th 2008, 10:52 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by immigrants
Thank you for your reply.

Pending mean which status? Still waiting reply, request to hand out materials,
ME or even after ME but before PL?
Pending means not concluded yet. Still in process, regardless what stage until visa is issued. Process is not pending anymore if case is refused or visa issued.

Originally Posted by immigrants
By the way, should you quote the link of Justise in Canada related to R77?
Because the link, thank you!
http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2002-227/sec77.html

Originally Posted by immigrants
In fact I'm not very old, and I want to earn more money now,
so I'm not worry about wait 3~5 years, but my concern is only about
can I go to Canada finally.

If Canada just slow the process but finally can go with only 67 marks,
I think some of applicants not worried about it.
Look for arranged employment in Canada if you want to get here in any predictable future.

Originally Posted by immigrants
I have one more question want to ask you, do the comlaw allow CIC
to adjust the definition of English requirement?
For example: moderate English is IELTS 5.0 ~ 6.9 now,
can CIC adjust it, request moderate English is IELTS 6.0 ~ 7.9?
Anything can happen in the span of time. But as far as IELTS goes the scale none, basic, moderate and fluent is defined by IELTS, not CIC. CIC only awards points for documented level of proficiency in English.

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Jan 13th 2008 at 10:54 pm.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 3:04 am
  #51  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
20,000 visas to be issued under CEC in 2008 - it is 20,000 applications getting higher priority treatment than standard SW applications in Buffalo. You are telling me that 20,000 cases pushed to back burner is not "a dramatic increase in processing times"?

Still a lot of people who meet CEC requirements will select CEC route over SW with arranged employment or PNP route for various reasons, despite stiff requirements.
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the update. But I think its 10K-12K not 20K applications.
I read it in parliment report 2007.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 3:11 am
  #52  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by virtuallypresent
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the update. But I think its 10K-12K not 20K applications.
I read it in parliment report 2007.
Read it again please. 10K-12K is shifted from SW class to CEC and another 10K shifted to PNP.

Also compare SW numbers from 2006 report to numbers in 2008 plan (links provided in one of my earlier posts here) and you'll see the substantial drop for 2008.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...php?t=503257#8

2006 figure for PNP was 13K - 2008 plan shows 22K, so it is for PNP
2006 figure for SW was 105K - 2006 plan shows 70K, so it is substantial for SW

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Jan 14th 2008 at 3:24 am.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 3:16 am
  #53  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Tarik
how can anyone acquire 2 years of work experience after graduation, if post-grad work permits for the most part are for 1 year (in Tdot, Vanc, Montreal)?

And I agree with Ethel. For example, Business and Finance positions O A B are out of reach for recent international grads. Employers invest considerable amount of resources and time to train graduates to become supervisors/managers/clerks etc. They will not invest knowing that after 1 year their application for LMO might get refused. So, they just don't bother. The same was with my job hunt after university. Recently, at least 3 of my friends left Canada for good after working in Toronto for a year at major banks. All our LMOs were rejected.

What should be done, is to issue permits for those who get jobs after graduation and make it less of a pain in the ass (maybe LMO exempt for a number of years?) to renew them until they land. After all, we've spent anywhere between 50-100K for our degrees in Canada.
Getting LMO for Post Grad Students doesnt seem that hard. They get priority. They have been exempted from tougher requirements. You can read this stuff from hrsdc website.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 4:14 am
  #54  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Read it again please. 10K-12K is shifted from SW class to CEC and another 10K shifted to PNP.

Also compare SW numbers from 2006 report to numbers in 2008 plan (links provided in one of my earlier posts here) and you'll see the substantial drop for 2008.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...php?t=503257#8

2006 figure for PNP was 13K - 2008 plan shows 22K, so it is for PNP
2006 figure for SW was 105K - 2006 plan shows 70K, so it is substantial for SW
Hi Andrew,

Please post the links for:

- Discussion Paper that has details about CEC (that you are referring to)
- Immigration Plan for 2008
(I am only aware of this http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...n1.asp#table_1 which says that 10K -12K people will be admitted to Canada under CEC. I will be happy if 20K can enter through this as I qualify for that

Thanks in advance...
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 11:42 am
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

I can't post any link to Discussion Paper as it is not for distribution outside of organizations and individuals invited by CIC to participate in consultations. We received Discussion Paper document in email and it is clearly marked *Not for distribution* and it is not available online anywhere. I posted in my original post all from the Paper I could legally post.

If you simply follow the link from my previous post it would take you to my post in the other thread where links to 2006 report (as 2007 hasn't been produced yet) and to 2008 plan (numbers at the bottom of page) are. But looks like you were not willing to take one extra step. Maybe you can try reading again the post you just replied to (it is also in your reply) and follow the link, it won't hurt...

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Jan 14th 2008 at 11:45 am.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 3:10 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
As for selection criteria - their change requires time and going through the Parliament (at least through the Standing Committee on Immigration).

Wouldn't it involve just a change in the Regulations? In most common-law countries that's a fairly simple process as long as there is no inconsistency with the Act.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by JAJ
Wouldn't it involve just a change in the Regulations? In most common-law countries that's a fairly simple process as long as there is no inconsistency with the Act.
Selection criteria are the part of Regulations, thus changing criteria will require amending Regulations and such requires government to go through the Parliament and get it approved by Standing Committee on Immigration (as it is not a change of Act of Parliament and as such doesn't require voting in the House of Commons). Regulations in section 76(2) only give the Minister a discretion to change pass mark at will and without consulting with Parliamentary Committee, but not to change selection criteria. This is why for example implementation of CEC and it's selection criteria requires regulatory amendment.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Selection criteria are the part of Regulations, thus changing criteria will require amending Regulations and such requires government to go through the Parliament and get it approved by Standing Committee on Immigration
Shouldn't that be just a formality?

It's suprising that the Act doesn't give the Minister the right to change the Regulations at his or her discretion.
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Old Jan 14th 2008, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/i-2.5/sec5.html
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Old Jan 16th 2008, 12:22 pm
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Default Re: *** Canadian Experience Class update ***

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
It still appears like a formality, unless this gives the House committee the right to delay or veto it.
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