JAJ

The difference is that Australia does at least make some effort to ensure that its skilled migrants are employable in skilled occupations.

Australia insists on recent work experience in a job for which there is some demand (ie, some occupations are not accepted for independent migration even though they are highly skilled). Additionally, Australia generally insists that skilled migrants qualifications are acceptable "in principle" in Australia, subject only to some limited conversion/upgrading.

Australia also allows employers to nominate applicants for migration, fast-tracks these applicants, and does not apply a points test.

The phenomenon of skilled immigrants is not unknown in Australia, but it's much less prevalent than in Canada.

JAJ

We don't know anything about how many of these Canadians:

- were solely Canadian and just living in Lebanon with resident permits (ie, not dual citizens);
- were born in Canada
- or lived a long time in Canada (maybe 15-20 years) before returning.

It seems to me that the question of dual citizenship has become mixed up with the wider question of what rights and obligations non-resident Canadians should have (whether they hold dual citizenship or not).

Even if the government wanted to restrict dual citizenship, it's unlikely that legislation could get through Parliament once all the implications were discussed.

These implications would include:

- Canadians who emigrate deciding to take up a foreign citizenship anyway, and turning their backs on Canada
- Canadians emigrating but not becoming fully integrated into the host society due to not wanting to lose Canadian citizenship. Ironically, this could make it more likely that such Canadians would return to Canada later in life when career is over.

As a contrast, the reason the United Kingdom has allowed dual citizenship since 1949 is that it has been the policy of successive British governments to encourage British emigrants to throw their lot in with their new country.

Something will still probably be done on Canadian citizenship law in due course, including possibly:

- restricting citizenship by birth in Canada to children of Canadian citizens and permanent residents
- increasing the residence period for Canadian citizenship from three years to five
- restricting further the Canadian citizenship rights of the second and subsequent generations born overseas

The other possibility is that non-resident Canadians might be in future required to file for Canadian federal income tax, as is the case in the United States. Although superficially attractive, it would probably not bring in a significant amount of revenue due to foreign income credits and double tax treaties. It would also mean that federal voting rights would need to be given to all expatriate Canadians.

So from the point of view of the government, any kneejerk reaction could well fall foul of the law of unintended consequences.

fatdoc

that seems to be the exact problem with the government of canada. canada must realize the value of immigrants. try to protect them , reeducate them if necessary and help them. Thats why when a potential immigrant gets a US PR, he moves to US because here he can work make money and pay less tax and he has more means and chances to satisfy requirements. Why are we worried about those who go to canada as a plan B? or become citizens of convenience??? nothing wrong with that, if governmet of canada willingly accept them, and doesnt enforce rules realistically so a foreign trained immigrant could work and live! then be it!

ABW

As “a [fresh of the border/boat] new immigrant in Canada”, I mostly agree with Mr. Andrew Miller’s factual opinions.
I don’t take a lower level job to gain experience to get later that “dream” job. I have a fair job as an ERP Manager (also developing custom J2EE components) although salary is AWAY lower and AWAY less lucrative than how much I used to make in the states.
Yes, I am an exception here as I moved from US to Canada not vice versa.

Perhaps, potential immigrants should realize there is no such thing called a dream job. Dreams are like rainbows. Only idiots chase them.
Secondly, LOSE THE SILVER SPOON ATTITUDES.
I’ve seen many new immigrants assume landed immigrant status as some sort of entitlement of whatever they think they deserve from the Government of Canada. If they don’t get “that entitlement”, they have got to blame someone.
Believe it or not, just by observing folks who pick up their PR cards here in Ottawa, you can measure their survival chances and chances for job in Canada.

PhD stands for piling higher debts. Brothers like me growing up in the hood ain’t got no luxury of higher education let alone PhD….so chill out homie….

MarkG

Because there's a multi-year waiting list for people who actually want to move to Canada rather than use it as a backup plan if they can't get a US green card?

fatdoc

thats the problem with CANADIAN immigration and not with ppl who apply!

Andrew Miller

The only problem with Canadian immigration is that pass mark is set too low, thus allowing for number of applications submitted to be several times larger than annual immigration targets.

And of course those who are using Canadian PR process only as a backup plan to their US Green Card dreams (or way to sponsor parents or spouses when they cannot do it in US) are adding to the problem and are alienating those applicants who honestly want to make Canada their home.

Canadian PR status is a privilege that should be granted exclusively to those who not only qualify for and deserve it but also who demonstrated their true intentions to live here.

Canadian PR status is not the right for anyone who wants to use it for other than making Canada a place of permanent residence reason.

fatdoc

Andrew
I agree that pass point might be low...but its good for canada. if they change their foundemental politics, more ppl will add the power of the country. Governmet of canda should inititate policies that encourage integration of new immigrants in the country in parallel with policies that tries to absorb more immigrants from abroad. I do respect canadians. They are fair people and freedom is more in canda than it is in US. I dont mind even paying more taxes there...however, Canada must decide to stand on its own feet and not to be US-light. very intesting term i must have found here. if they provide jobs and opportunities in the country, why people should move to the US?? the probelm is once you have US-light, you will want more and desire real thing!! there should be no difference at least in economical terms. just check any credit card, and compare perks in US vs canada...or any car...the difference is amazing!

Andrew Miller

There is no mass migration from Canada to US and Canada is not a "US-light". But you must remember that more than 85% of Canadian goods and services are being sold on US market, so US is the most important trade partner for us.

People (mainly new Canadians who immigrated here from Asia, especially from Subcontinent) move to US for one reason only - they assume that their larger salaries in US will provide them with more money to send back home. They are not really immigrants - in majority they are migrant workers always looking for greener pasture allowing them to send more back home. They have no loyalty at all to newly adopted country, no matter if it is Canada or US.

We had the same discussions here over and over again in past several years and there will be no agreement. Migrant workers trying to take advantage of every opportunity and loophole will do what they want to do and nobody will tell them not to try.

But on the other hand Canada has the right to say who we want and who we'll accept as new Canadians. From time to time CIC makes it tougher for those "US bound" migrants to aquire Canadian PR, for example requesting H1 visa holders coming from US to provide during landing evidence that they don't have GC process pending or that they are withdrawing their GC petitions. Just browse through posts from few years back and you'll see tons of reports on this matter. It comes and goes in waves - we have few years period (like at present) of flexibility and then comes few years of toughness, strictly enforcing requirement to provide proof of intentions to make Canada a place of permanent residence.

The sad thing is that such alternate waves of flexibility and toughness affect only immigrants, while at the same time CIC is always tough on our own Canadian citizens living abroad who sponsor their spouses and common-law partners - they must submit conclusive evidence of preparations to move to Canada, and no flexibility is allowed.

I would like to see the same tough approach to be applied to new immigrants as well, and applied equally.

Again - we are dealing with very small portion of new immigrants who are really US-bound. Unfortunately, as ratio of immigrants from Subcontinent continues to raise the numbers of US-bound raise at par.

Canada has jobs and opportunities, and we historically in past decade or so have real unemployment a percentage point or two below unemployment reported in US. I said real because Americans use different formula to calculate unemployment rate than we do here in Canada. Our numbers are closer to real unemployment, while American numbers are closer to number of people claiming unemployment benefits. Not all unemployed in US are eligible for benefits and those who are have those benefits available for limited time, thus American unemployment rates are far from real number of people without job.

Also remember that higher salaries in US also reflect higher cost of living - and I say it based on my own experience living and working for a decade in California (SF Bay Area) - and please don't tell me that we cannot use SF Bay Area high cost of living. I now live in Vancouver, which by comparison to the rest of Canada is as expensive (or even more expensive) as SF Bay Area compared to the rest of US.

If one's mind is US-bound then she or he will never try hard enough to make it in Canada, they will only try to get by before they can get to US, while at the same time they will complain about no opportunities in Canada.

High taxes? What planet are you from? Income tax in Canada is well below 10 most taxed States in US, in reality in the range of average income tax rate in US. Just wait and see what Democrats now in power will do with taxes in US in very near future, despite claiming that taxes for "middle class" will not be raised. But the problem is that what they currently in their pledges not to raise taxes for middle class define as "middle class" is a family with toyal income not exceeding $50K per year.

Andrew Miller

An eye opener for all those delusional and misinformed about "much" higher income in US should be official census and stats data from both countries. Note that Canadian stats report median after tax income, while American data reports pre-tax income.

Canada:

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a.htm

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050512/d050512a.htm

US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/4person.html

http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...-incomes_x.htm

If you want to compare note that 1 USD = ~ 1.1 CAD

Don't forget to subtract taxes from US reported numbers....

And remember to compare housing cost in US to comparable markets in Canada as well as cost of health insurance per family in US and Canada. Note that 40+ million Americans cannot afford health insurance and percentage of those lucky ones who have health insurance packages from employer is not huge. Most work in small businesses with less than 50 employees and those companies can't afford to pay premiums for their employees.

So, check with Blue Cross and other insurers in US to see how much health insurance will cost you per month for your family size, what will be your deductible and maximum coverage cap.

Then check how much we pay in health insurance premiums here in Canada (note that in some Provinces health coverage is free) and remember that we don't pay any deductible and have no maximum caps.

So, make sure to find out how much 1 day of stay in US hospital costs and how expensive even minor surgeries are - you'll see how fast your expenses can skyrocket tens or hundreds of times above your max coverage cap if something even minor happens to you or your dependent.

Have fun with those numbers...

.

fatdoc

excellent post andrew and thank you for sharing. i admire your nationalistic approach and attitude! incidentally wht were you doing in sf?!?!
just curious.

Andrew Miller

Nationalistic approach???

You must be smoking something....

BTW - I have 3 citizenships and am immigrant to North America too, live now for 16 years in Canada, my home and my loyalty is to Canada. My comments have nothing to do with not so friendly sounding "nationalistic" approach.

Just with the facts and my first hand observations after living and practising as immigration and international business migration consultant on both sides of the US/Canada border for well more than 2 decades now and dealing with thousands of clients from every corner of our planet.

Here in Canada my primary field since early '90's is Canadian immigration. Down in SF Bay Area prior to moving to Vancouver it was the other way around - international business migration for business people from Europe and Asia setting up their companies in US and Canada and for Americans/Canadians investing in Europe and Asia was primary focus of my practice and US/Canada immigration was secondary.

fatdoc

i only smoke pipe! and about to give up on that!
again thanks for excellent comments. I will save your post.

Andrew Miller

Here are the newest stats showing that number of Canadians emigrating to other countries dropped by half, down to 1982 level:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/...canadians.html

15,000 Canadians leaving (many, if not most are new Canadians who used Canada as a stepping stone to US), compared to 250,000 immigrants coming in each year represent a very small number and proves again that there is no mass exodus out of Canada, despite what many US-bound posters and readers in this forum may believe that there is.

dimon237

This is NOT a Citizenship issue. This is TAXATION issue. All Canada would have to do is enact a Tax Law similar to the States, where you pay tax on global income regardless of your residency. This way, if you want to have Canadian citizenship, pay tax, if not, give up your passport. Simple as that. Dual citizenship has nothing to do with it, and is a much more complex issue then an indicator of love or not to Canada.